I think you might find the only difference in Modge Podge and white glue is that Modge Podge will not soften with water once set. BILL
I've used both, on the same layout, and can detect absolutely no difference other than the price. Mind you, the layout is built on very solid benchwork, with 3/4" thick sub roadbed and cork layed atop that (in most, but not all places). Perhaps there's more noise generated by foam-based layouts, particularly when the builder uses lightweight framework in the interests of portability.
Wayne
great....that's exactly what I'll do...I've been using white glue, but now that I have a chance to start a new layout from scratch, I want to improve. Thanks again.
The St. Francis Consolidated Railroad of the Colorado Rockies
Denver, Colorado
Most of us, maybe not all, but most of us, would use Mod Podge or some other matte medium available at Wal Mart or craft stores. And most of us would dilute it somewhat. Maybe close to 50/50, although I only use yellow carpenter's glue and I dilute it to about one part glue to six parts water, plus two drops of dish detergent.
-Crandell
Forgive my ignorance, but are you all talking about using artist's Liquitex or other brand matte medium, and, second, are you talking about using it straight or diluted like white glue is diluted? Thanks.
tangerine-jackhttp://s423.photobucket.com/albums/pp312/tangerine-jack/?action=view¤t=heavyloadrailflex.flv You mean quiet like this video in which 100% of audio is track noise? Piffle on quiet. Never heard a quiet train apart from Acela.
http://s423.photobucket.com/albums/pp312/tangerine-jack/?action=view¤t=heavyloadrailflex.flv
You mean quiet like this video in which 100% of audio is track noise? Piffle on quiet. Never heard a quiet train apart from Acela.
I agree. It's why I swap plastic wheels for metal ones. And I have sound in the locomotives as well. Didn't think I'd like it at first, but now there's no going back.
Enjoy
Paul
I would not use the tape. I can see big problems using the tape and having uneven roadbed. I stand to be corrected on this though. I used caulk and the cork lays nice and flat on the foam.
I used PL300 to glue my 2" foam to my 1x4s and it's great. However I think next time I would at least experiment by using caulk to do this, as it would make the foam somewhat salvageable and possibly more quiet. Just my.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
I'm just getting ready to lay track on 2 inch foam that is going to be put on 1 X 4 inch frames. Each frame is 2 X 4 ft .The complete layout is modular [around the room] so it can be disassembled when the time comes. I plan on using caulk to join the foam to the framework. The track will be laid on the cork roadbed. My question is: Should I use the latex caulk to fasten the cork to the foam, or would the camper tape be a better choice? Also, what would be a good source for the tape?
Thanks
The Dixie D Short Line "Lux Lucet In Tenebris Nihil Igitur Mors Est Ad Nos 2001"
The quietest method I have tried and will stick with to date is spline sub roadbed or 3/4" birch plywood works very well also homasote topped with homabed roadbed and track glued not nailed down with silicone adhesive. Yup basically take right out of the Realistic Reliable Track publication but mine was down a few months before it came out............lol Being as there is no positive connection between the track to the bench work no sound it transmitted to the bench work. hence no vibrating wood what so ever.
I can run a train over section of it and hear nothing ore then the wheels on the rails and the occasional click as it passes a rail joiner.
I have used matte medium to ballast some track I haven't noticed an appreciable difference not to say that it isn't true because the reasoning behind it makes perfect sense. I will say it's gotten to the point of obsession to make a railroad run as quiet as possible when a few years back I recall reading in MR where guys would take a razor saw and cut a small grove in the rails every scale 39' simulating prototypical rail joints so one would get that clickity clack as the train rolled down the track just like the real trains which if anyone hasn't noticed are far from quiet and neither are the rails when they run over them.
I agree with Jim. build your benchwork any way you wish, use matte medium to adhere the ballast and run your trains.
Ive never done ether ,BUT Ive worked calking in my job for thirty years and would say ,if a spike can hold Im shure latex will grab ,just remember the kitchen & bath tubes (there red &white ) have more adhiesive than the painters calk,but its a bit thicker to work with . Im sure it would be fine
Does securing cork roadbed to Homasote subroadbed with latex caulk work well or not?
- Douglas
I see no reason why you couldnt attach 1x cross braces direct to the foam ,but the main thing Ive heard to keep sound down is to use an adheisive that stays flexible like a calking product for the foam ,roadbed ,and track .(but Im not an expert ,but im getting ready to attach the foam to bench ) this Is what Iv been told .....ps If wrong an I get a sound reverb from the foam board I well probubly try attaching some random cut squares of the cheap sound board they have at H.D to the bottem side of the bench/foam work or just try to ignore it
At the moment I have no way to check this out so I am asking.
I would prefer to use 2 inch foam, with no plywood under it, if possible. Has anybody tried to glue 1 X whatever on edge, on the bottom of the foam board to stiffen it and prevent the vibration, hence the noise? These pieces would not contact any framing, just be glued with the appropiate glue to the foam.
I understand onboard sound is expensive, I've heard it and it's all very nice if you want to pretend you are in the cab of the loco and only want to hear that. To date I've never seen a layout built from the perspective of the cab. Track makes as much if not more noise than any loco.
I've got MP3 recordings of differing rail action that I can play through normal household speakers at volume and I can assure the doubters that actual rail sounds makes a difference in realism that the eye fails to satisfy. Try it just once and see for yourself. Quiet benchwork? Whatever for?
mikemike Doughless Well, for me, railroads are appealing to the sense of sight. Not much about them is appealing to the sense of hearing. They ain't Mozart. Adding even more realism, how about the sense of smell? I thought about doing a layout based upon 1920's texas cattle country, but my wife objected to the suggestions I had for simulating the smell of a unit cattle train. Doug Oof! I am Mozart, and the variety of tones and sound textures available to you modern people astonishes me! In fact, it's just like music!! seriously, have you never heard a trio of SD 45s running up a grade?? ... eine kleine trakmusik.
Doughless Well, for me, railroads are appealing to the sense of sight. Not much about them is appealing to the sense of hearing. They ain't Mozart. Adding even more realism, how about the sense of smell? I thought about doing a layout based upon 1920's texas cattle country, but my wife objected to the suggestions I had for simulating the smell of a unit cattle train. Doug
Well, for me, railroads are appealing to the sense of sight. Not much about them is appealing to the sense of hearing. They ain't Mozart.
Adding even more realism, how about the sense of smell? I thought about doing a layout based upon 1920's texas cattle country, but my wife objected to the suggestions I had for simulating the smell of a unit cattle train.
Doug
seriously, have you never heard a trio of SD 45s running up a grade?? ... eine kleine trakmusik.
Never mind 1920's Texas cattle country. Try driving from Amarillo to Clovis right now. The BNSF delivers unit trains of cattle feed to those Rhode Island-size feedlots (with the mountains of scraped-together bovine droppings...)
As far as sound - I've heard doubleheaded D51 class 2-8-2s tackling a 2.5% grade from a standing start. Nobody will ever mistake THAT for freeway noise. Unfortunately, nobody has figured out how to get a speaker the size of a quarter to reproduce that short-cutoff cannonade.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - as quietly as possible)
DoughlessWell, for me, railroads are appealing to the sense of sight. Not much about them is appealing to the sense of hearing. They ain't Mozart. Adding even more realism, how about the sense of smell? I thought about doing a layout based upon 1920's texas cattle country, but my wife objected to the suggestions I had for simulating the smell of a unit cattle train. Doug
hcc25rl Please, Sir, it ain't that hard!. Use Homasote and all will be quiet. I've been using it for years with virtually NO trouble at all, despite what the informed elite will tell you. Plus, it's CHEAP! Jimmy
Please, Sir, it ain't that hard!. Use Homasote and all will be quiet. I've been using it for years with virtually NO trouble at all, despite what the informed elite will tell you. Plus, it's CHEAP!
Jimmy
I've only heard of Homasote being used in conjunction with track spikes. Do you know, can you attach cork roadbed, or other materials, to Homasote with latex caulk, or even white/yellow glue? It seems like those products might soak into the Homasote.
Doug, my trestle is the only 'olfactory' item on my layout, and I had to do it the 'beg for forgiveness' way rather than the ask She-Who-Must-be-Obeyed way. I used a rather generous supply of real creosote oil that my Dad left me when I inherited the place. I used maybe two teaspoons on the little wood surface of all the timbers...not much at all...and it was GREAT the first three days. Then, it was gone. I have to get my nose right up against the timbers, which doesn't exactly elicit an indulgent smile from She when she catches me doing it.
doctorwayne I knew that, Crandell, but it's all noise to me. Wayne
I knew that, Crandell, but it's all noise to me.
Wayne, I agree. I can't stand more than two engines sounding anywhere on my layout. The speaker sounds aren't exactly first class to begin with, but they don't scale worth a darn. So you get a BLI K4s' cross compounds banging away like mad, or the injectors wailing, except that it is 600 scale yards away...and trying hard to outdo the J1 I am intent upon. Grrrrr...
But, with the one or two being all the sound supplied to my railroading enjoyment at any one time, a lot of roar and rumble just doesn't work...for me. It has to be one or t'udder.
Wayne and Jack, the answer is that for those with sound-equipped HO scale engines, the rolling noise (a roar at times, if the circumstances are right..) competes heavily with speakers that have their volume turned to the middle settings so that there is less distortion. If you are going to pay for sound, you'd like to hear it, and not the model rolling sounds which are quite unlike what you hear trackside in the real world.
I agree with Jack on this one: what's the point? Clandestine model railroading so that the neighbours won't discover that you're, gasp, playing with trains? I'm not a big fan of noise, but how long are you willing to sit at the mouth of that tunnel, waiting for your silent train to emerge? By the time the smoke appears at the portal, it's too late to shut 'er down. If you really want quiet trains, instead of replacing those plastic wheels that you've removed and thrown away, simply don't! That'll cut down on your track cleaning chores, too.
My word! Ready-to-run and now you want it quiet, too?
Highly realistic model track and roadbed would be noisy, very noisy. Real track creaks and groans, bangs pops and squeals. Locomotives are noisy and shake the ground, freight cars bang and clang and thump down the track with flatspotted wheels. Couplers squeak and bang, wheel bearings scream. Why do you want quiet benchwork and roadbed? Surely not to be realistic in any way. Why not just build your layout then play a loop recording of a rail yard very loudly in the room? Quiet railroads? Piffle. Sound my friend, that is what brings a dead piece of plywood to life.
ROUTE ROCK!
Doughless Does anybody think that putting a bead of latex caulk between framing members, or between the foam/plywood base and the horizontal support rafters limit any vibration being transmitted throughout the benchwork? Maybe when the screws are tightened it would negate any benefit of the latex cushion.
Does anybody think that putting a bead of latex caulk between framing members, or between the foam/plywood base and the horizontal support rafters limit any vibration being transmitted throughout the benchwork? Maybe when the screws are tightened it would negate any benefit of the latex cushion.
When you mentioned tightening screws, you answered your own question. The direct connection through the screw completely bypasses the caulk and any effect it might have.
In the caulked-together sandwich I described above, there are no fasteners that penetrate all the way from top to bottom, and very few (other than track spikes) that penetrate two layers.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)