I've got a sloped ceiling in my train room. The kneewall is very low, so when I start Phase 2 of my layout, I'll be attaching the benchwork directly to the underside of the ceiling. I'll be using a simple box frame with rafters, and putting pink 2-inch foam on top of it. The benchwork will be mostly 30 inches wide, with a balloon at one end for a track loop.
Does anyone have experience and/or suggestions for attaching the frame to the wall / ceiling? It's a 45-degree angle. Currently, I'm thinking of a 1x3 run horizontally, angled with the wall and attached with screws drilled through into the studs. Then I'll use angled cross rafters out to a 1x4 piece on the front edge, with 2x3's for legs.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
This is the same situation I'm in, but because this is a rental property AND because I don't think I would consider suspending the layout in the first palce, I'm simply building ordinary benchwork with legs. Suspending things just seems way more difficult plus it leaves the suspension members hanging down into the scene. Box frames with foam glued on can easuly span 8' without deflecting, as I did on my previous layout, so you don't have to over-clutter things with legs. Underneath this area I will put my bookcases with my magazine and book collection.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
I think your better bet is to build your new benchwork in two or three sections, mounted on rollers like your original layout. If nothing else, working on the back side of the benchwork would be a lot easier if you could avoid trying to reach into the triangle of space where the ceiling makes its closest approach to the tabletop.
I have considerably narrower sections of layout built on shelf brackets under other shelves used for storage. Even with two feet of overhead clearance, working close to the wall is a (literal) pain in the neck (and, occasionally, the back of the head.)
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
Mr B.
I am in the same boat. Second floor of a 27 year old cape house. Around the walls but low or table and head bang? My 14X14 room has a knee wall that is 30 inches to the angled ceiling and there is a double hung window opposite of the door at 25 inches from floor. I already ripped the bathroom out of the the only gabled room and put my work bench up. I had thought of building a low layout with a track height about 27 inches from the floor but I think that would be too low. If I build it higher than I lose the ability of putting taller structures in the back. If only I can win the lottery than I can put a dormer up.
Pete
I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!
I started with nothing and still have most of it left!
Well Mr. B if your half as good using a table saw as you are a modeler it's an easy fix. Being you have a 45-degree angle to work with just rip a 2x4 at a 45 the full length and use it as a ledger board. Screw it to the rafters and then screw the box of your bench work to the flat portion of the 2x4. each 2x4 will yield you two ledger boards. I would personally skip every other rafter when attaching the ledger board so you can hit the (skipped rafters) with longer dry wall screws going through the bench work and the ledger board. The rest of what your thinking of using should work very well and leave you with some sturdy bench work. If you have enough friends to help you hold up the bench work in one piece that would be the way to go but if not building it in sections is an alternative. I've found one of those adjustable stands with the roller on one end for ripping long lengths of wood invaluable as I do most everything around here myself.
Allegheny2-6-6-6 Well Mr. B if your half as good using a table saw as you are a modeler it's an easy fix.
Well, they say Jesus was a carpenter, which might explain why I use his name so often when I'm doing benchwork. Let's say it's not my strong suit.
Thanks for the ideas. The kneewall is only about 2 feet high, and the layout is about 40 inches high. The whole Phase 2 addition will be about 19 feet long, and mostly 30 inches wide. I'm giving some thought to Chuck's idea of making it mobile, but given the size and shape that might not be too practical. The addition will have a lot of track, so I don't think I want to make it modular. I may design the benchwork so that I can do a one-time move if necessary, but I'd rather not deal with lots of separable track joints if I can help it.
So, it's called a "ledger board," eh? That's basically what I was trying to describe, but I think it might be easier to attach the board flat to the sloping roof line, and then cut the angles on the rafter pieces. Unfortunately, that does leave the rafters hanging, rather than resting, on the supports.
That's exactly what I've got, too. I built my benchwork out in the garage, and even did a lot of track laying and scenery. I realized early on that the back edge of the layout under that sloped ceiling was going to be next to impossible to work on.
So, I used L-girders and joists for the basic frame, and stand it off on legs, with brackets attaching it to the side wall (the left end in the photo). You'll also see that I have a low knee wall, about 24". You'll also see that the basic benchwork sits over a foot below the back edge of the scenery. There's really no point in extending the benchwork all the way back to the ceiling line, because you won't be able to do anything with that space anyway. Using stand-alone legs will be easier to engineer, and more stable, in my opinion. You may include a brace or two attached to the ceiling, but I think that would be overkill.
Here's the view showing the construction progress while still out in the garage. The track on the left side is now running directly under the ceiling at the rear of the layout.
To make sure I didn't get too close to the ceiling and lose clearance for trains to run, I added a small ridge of landscape behind the track. This also provides a "guard rail" to keep errant rolling stock from following Christopher Columbus over the edge of the earth...
This got carved and finished with a coat of Sculptamold, and ultimately finished with scenic materials.
While it was in the garage, I painted and ballasted the track, and made sure anything that needed close attention, such as the turnout machines on the lower siding, were all squared away before toting it up to the attic for installation. Once that 45 degree ceiling is over top of all that, this work is much more difficult, if not impossible.
Here's the finished product.
Hope this is useful.
Lee
Route of the Alpha Jets www.wmrywesternlines.net
Well a couple of questions, according to the new track plan to you intend to have any structures towards the back side(sloping roof) of the bench work? if so your going to need to at least mock it up so you can figure how high of a structure you can go with. Also is the back side of the knee wall accessible? In the cape I grew up in and most of the one's I've ever seen they use the space behind the knee wall for storage and have ace's panels or doors so you can crawl behind them, if this is the case then you could cut slots in the drywall and attach L girder to the roof rafters, but this may prove to be a little messy. This may be a little on the extreme as you mentioned the saw is not your best friend but go with the ledger board as I described perhaps you can get the guys in the lumber yard or Lowes etc. to rip it on a 45 for you. If thats not an option one other way is to cut one side of all the cross pieces of the bench work at a 45 and then screw and glue the long back wall facing piece to the 45 sides which will result in the back piece being at 45 degrees and screw it directly to the roof rafters. Personally I think if you combine what Lee did with what I suggested you'll have it nailed no pun intended. I don't see how you could build 19' of bench work in one piece and still be able to move it in the room etc. so I would build it in at least 3 sections and bolt them together with carriage bolts. It should take no more then three guys to hold it in place and one to run the screw gun, unless you have train buddies like I do and have to do everything by committee.
Here are a couple of pictures of the ledger board attached to the wall of the train room and the bench work attached to it to give you a visual of what I'm trying to explain.
Ledger Board attached to the wall
Bench work attached to Ledger board
Lee's first picture is pretty similar to my situation. That end of my layout will balloon out to about 4 feet wide, but then taper back to 30 inches (2 1/2 feet) pretty quickly. I plan to have a liftoff section in the center of the 4-foot-wide area for access to the back, but the point about the roofline at that point is something I hadn't thought about.
Right now, I'm leaning more towards making this free-standing, but with the option to attach it to the walls / ceiling at a few points if necessary.
I don't plan to have a lot of structures along the sloping wall. The long run on the back wall is intended to be primarily staging and storage.
Mr. B,
We all over looked the obvious choice of calling in a contractor and blowing out the layout room and lets say making it as large as the rest of the house? A truly justifiable expense in my book,I think you can seel that one no?
Allegheny2-6-6-6We all over looked the obvious choice of calling in a contractor and blowing out the layout room and lets say making it as large as the rest of the house?
Already did that. This house used to end before it got to the train room. We actually had a garage added on, with the train room as the second story. It was sold to me as a train room, 24x24 and all mine. Unfortunately, it came out too nice, and it became a family room.
Allegheny2-6-6-6I think you can sell that one no?
Now that the junior member of the family has gone to college, I've been allowed to take another section of the room, and maybe the rest of it in the future. Time will tell...
Yeah I know all the words to that song all too well. I negotiated for the use of the entire basement as putting the railroad in the pole barn wasn't economically feasible right now. So far it has cost me a brand new up right washer and dryer from Lowes and new kitchen lighting but I still only occupy less then half of the basement/ Whats wrong with this picture?
Hi
I'm building my HO double decker in my loft using the rafters as supports. Hope the pictures explain how I'm doing it and they actually come out! (Only vaguely remember how to post pictures.)
Cheers
Barry
MisterBeasleyI've got a sloped ceiling in my train room. The kneewall is very low, so when I start Phase 2 of my layout, I'll be attaching the benchwork directly to the underside of the ceiling. I'll be using a simple box frame with rafters, and putting pink 2-inch foam on top of it. The benchwork will be mostly 30 inches wide, with a balloon at one end for a track loop. Does anyone have experience and/or suggestions for attaching the frame to the wall / ceiling? It's a 45-degree angle. Currently, I'm thinking of a 1x3 run horizontally, angled with the wall and attached with screws drilled through into the studs. Then I'll use angled cross rafters out to a 1x4 piece on the front edge, with 2x3's for legs.
Have you considered simply getting some 4x4's (old railroad ties would also work) and floor jacks to lift up the front part of the house by 45 degrees and then cribbing it?
I'm always for the simplest, most obvious solution. Which in this case would be removal of the 45 degree angle.
Alternately, you could fashion custom hangers from 1/2" - 3/4" plywood-- with the top segment along the 45 degree angle and the bottom segment (presumably) at a 90 degree angle (straight out horizontally). The vertical portion would need to correspond with amount you've alloted for height. Spaced at about 2 foot intervals, you should have plenty of support for a suspended shelf. To anchor it to the sloped ceiling, secure some 2x2's or similar to the ceiling and then attach the brackets to the anchors. You could use nails, screws, or bolts. Then you can hang whatever backdrop you'll be using directly to the hangers.
However, I mostly agree with the other respondents that unless you have some special need for a suspended configuration, you'd probably have a better bet with just building up the benchwork from the floor.
jwhittenHowever, I mostly agree with the other respondents that unless you have some special need for a suspended configuration, you'd probably have a better bet with just building up the benchwork from the floor.
Yes, after consideration of all the ideas, I think that's the way to go. I was thinking I'd save myself some lumber and construction, but all I will save is about 20 linear feet of 2x3, and it will probably be simpler to just build the legs than to work out some elegant way to mount it on the wall.
Since it's 19 feet long, I'll be building it in 3 separate sections. It's not meant to be truly "modular," since there are far too many tracks crossing the section boundaries, but it would allow for a one-time separation if it had to be relocated at some point.
Thanks for all the help and suggestions. Time to buy lumber in a few weeks, so I can have the benchwork upstairs in the warm train room by the time winter sets in.
MrB, you will also find that even built sections with a 1x mounting ledger that the rafters will not be on a level plane for attachment. Any crown/ sag of the rafters will pronounced for mounting a level ledger. This is not to say it can't be done, but any framework attached in this fashion would have to be stick built in place. Preconstructed frame sections on supports would be the easier way to go as shown by Lee wm3798. These could be attached to a few rafters for added stability, any irregularity of the bottom rafter line could be shimmed at the mounting position if needed.
Modeling B&O- Chessie Bob K. www.ssmrc.org
MrB,
If you are attaching to the rafters, this would be a good place to use your Bragdon hardshell to save on weight.
Sue
Anything is possible if you do not know what you are talking about.