Two level with no helix or direct connection?

[leighant]

I posted this originally as a reply to a helix discussion, but it is oddball enough, I thought I would make a separate topic.

My thoughts on two-level layout may not fit everyone's criteria, so I will start out admitting this is a special case.

This is NOT 2- level layout to get longer mainline run.

Maybe it is partly not deciding what to model and wanting everything.

I like the Santa Fe east-west secondary mainline through the piney woods approximately 50 miles north of Houston. I have used it as the theme of my small 3x7 "table" layout,
( http://www.railimages.com/albums/kennethanthony/aad.jpg )
which I consider inadequate mainly for not having enough layover staging to run full complement of trains: daily through freight each direction, local peddler east one day west the other, couple of extras, doodlebug one way in am return pm with a way to turn at least on one end.

I also want to model Santa Fe passenger trains Texas Chief, California Special, Ranger in Houston and Galveston area, ie Houston and 50 miles south. Like to model the area AND the traffic. Would fill as large a space as I could ever imagine having. 2-car garage size in N scale.

I would like to have both.

Some connection between the two themes but NOT NECESSARILY LIVE RUNNING. In real life, the two parts of railroad connected 50-60 miles west of either of the modeled areas. Some cars shipped from Houston level in one session might continue on other level in next operating session by hand movement from lower staging to upper staging. Not a whole lot, no more than a dozen say. Layouts on two levels would still have to arranged so busy switching/operating areas on one level not directly above/below each other.
Piney woods line minimally operable by one operator, better for two, three about max.
Big city passenger terminal and island seaport 3 operators minimum, up to 5 or 6. Could operate one part of layout without the other or both, depending on how many operators available.
Anybody ever done anything like this?

[orsonroy]

I've heard of modelers building two layouts in two different scales before, one stacked on top of each other, but not necessarily two layouts of the same railroad in two different geographic locations. I'm sure SOMEONE's done this sort of thing before though. Most layouts like this just combine the two geographic area with a long-ish run, and ignore the fact that the lines aren't 200 scale miles apart.

Sounds like the perfect layout to add a long, boring helix onto to me. The helix will give the illusion of distance, and will combine the two levels, allowing for at least car movement.

Personally, I prefer to NOT scatter my modeling efforts all over the place. Concentrating on one scale, prototype, theme, era, etc., allows me to have a more finished layout in less time, and saves a LOT of strain on my wallet. If I didn't have some sort of discipline, I'd be modeling in N, HO, TT, On30, Proto-48, and live steam!

[ndbprr]

There is no rule either way. If that gives you the most operating pleasure go for it. The risk you run is equipment damage by using the 0-5-0 to reposition it. I don't know how big you are planning but I would offer two suggestions:
1. Have some hidden staging so you can alternate cars
2. Consider a vertical elevator of some sort to move the cars as a block. It could move as few as five at a time and the hardest part would be starting to build it.

[Anonymous]

One of the things David Barrow tried on the South Plains Division domino layout was to run cars from the Industry Yard dominos onto a wheeled "cassette" which was then rolled over to the South Plains dominos and worked by the switcher there. Of course, both were on the same level, but why not move cars or entire trains between levels in a similar fashion. Sounds interesting.

[jrbarney]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ndbprr

2. Consider a vertical elevator of some sort to move the cars as a block. It could move as few as five at a time and the hardest part would be starting to build it.

Leighant,
As Ndbprr points out, there are train elevators. Some are do-it-yourself but there is at least one pricey commercial version. Just one of the "train elevator" threads is:
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7123
You can find other elevator threads using the Search the forum ... window.
Bob
NMRA Life 0543

[Anonymous]

If you have the space for a helix to join the two levels together, then use it for a helix; it would be better than two seperate layouts. Why not create a mythical branch line that serves as an interchange between your two favourite lines. If Line A is over there and Line B is over here and there is sixty miles between them, then draw a line between the two of them, create a town or two with a yard and model that.

Modelling trains is a series of compromises unless you have a gymnasium as your layout space. One friend of mine is modelling a very scenic route in British Columbia, the problem is that he wants to have "operations" on a line that just wasn't that busy. His solution: he created a land slide that closed down to major lines so they had to divert through his modelled area, now he has the traffic to give him sufficient "operations." In your scenario, create a line to bring your two favourites together, you will probably have more fun with this arrangement rather than two seperate layouts working independently of each other.

[ClinchValleySD40]

Use an elevator disguised as a car ferry. A friend does it, works great. And he models two different railroads, one on each level.

[nfmisso]

Take a look at the Priest's layout in the June MR.

[Anonymous]

Probably not very applicable to your situation, but I'm building a shelf layout and connecting the upper level by using a couple of switchbacks and a fairly steep grade. Pretty much will just push log cars up it.

Thought about a removeable helix but thought I'd give the switchbacks a try first. No historical prototypes in my area of the Adirondacks but over in Vermont there was a logging road switchbacking up the Green Mountains at a 6% grade.

Wayne

[robengland]

There was an article some time in 2000 in MR where the layout had a cassette to manually lift trains betwen levels, based on the ideas of Ian Rice, who has done lots of cool variants on the idea: ferry cassettes, cassettes on trolleys, a "turntable fiddle yard cassette trolley" thing also seen in 2000 some time in MR on a layout called "Old Katy"...

It has been done often enough without too many problems with 0-5-0 accidents :-) The British fiddle whole trains all the time

[Anonymous]

Here's a link to a site with a train elevator, including photos & drawings.
http://aglasshalffull.org/article-logging-train.html
Good luck.

Wayne