I've been told that Peco turnouts are the way to go but a quick check of the 2009 Walthers catalog lists a #8 at $43. I have used Walthers (Shinohara) in the past and was perfectly happy with them. A #8 is $20 MSRP. So are the Peco's twice as good? Thanks - Bill
What evidence on this board do you have that says Peco turnouts are "the way to go?"
i am using both products in code 100 and i find the peco's are often a little wide in the guard rail/running rail spacing that causes wheels to pick the frog point when shoving a cut through the switch. that is easily fixed with a .010 shim. the peco's are nice for walkaround operation in that they have the built in over center spring that holds the point in firm contact with the stock rails. for looks, they are not the greatest but that is not an issue for me since i am more into operating dependability than i am track appearance.
i have dozens of the shinohara switches that i bought before walthers got involved with them. they seem to be well made as far as physical operation goes but they have an occasional problem with electrical continuity. that is usually easily cured by tightening up the rivet that the point assembly pivots on. they also need to have the roadbed relieved slightly under some of the throw bars. i use caboose industries ground throws with them or a homemade hairpin spring.
there are other alternatives out there but i just work with what i have on hand. personally, and that means others might not agree, i never cared for the looks of atlas frogs and always thought the m e's were overated for their price.
the handlaying alternative is interesting but i don't want to take the time required to learn how to get it right.
in closing, remember i am an old school (retired) modeler who never made the jump to dcc or code 83.
before i go, did whoever told peco was the way to go also sell peco?
I use code 100 for my mainline and code 83 for secondary and yard tracks. My mainline Code 100 turnouts are 95% Sinohara, and they've worked extremely well for the past 7 years. And all of my turnouts--mainline or yard--are manual, since they are easily accessable.
However in the past several months, I've had to replace some of my Sinohara code 83 turnouts because of constantly recurring conductivity problems on the main yard 'ladder'. I decided to replace them with Peco code 83--which frankly, seem a bit more 'sturdy', and am very pleased with the operation. The center spring offers positive electrical contact, and my yard operations are now very smooth. In fact, I find that I'm spending as much time in the yard as I am on the main, thanks mainly to the Peco. And their Code 83 turnouts are much closer to American prototype.
So, I suppose it's a matter of opinion. I wouldn't dream of changing out my Sinohara code 100 main turnouts, but for the 'ladder' track that is essential to my yard operations, I'm extremely happy with the code 83 Peco's.
Tom
Tom View my layout photos! http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/TWhite-014/Rio%20Grande%20Yuba%20River%20Sub One can NEVER have too many Articulateds!
" However in the past several months, I've had to replace some of my Sinohara code 83 turnouts because of constantly recurring conductivity problems on the main yard 'ladder'. "
just to trade stories, did you determine exactly what was causing the continuity problems? i have encountered several things like that in shinohara code 100 and have been able to cure them all with a bit of work and good luck. what type of switch throw were you using?
grizlump
Walthers prices for Peco products are way out of line. A cheaper source of Peco track products is Cherry Creek Hobbies in Torrington, Wyoming, at http://www.cchobbies.com
Walthers catalog prices are MSRP. Products are always cheaper from dealers, whether on-line or LHS.
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grizlump:
Actually, for a short time I did have a problem with one of my Sinohara #8 Code 100 curved turnouts, but I was able to cure it with some shimming and adjusting. Hoever, once the code 83 ladder turnouts started to go, there didn't seem to be much that I could do with them, no matter what I tried--adjusting the ground throws (not an easy task when your base is foam and not board, BTW) cleaning the contact points. Those Walthers Code 83 turnouts are extremely touchy, IMO. The Code 100 seem to be MUCH sturdier.
Frankly, it could be that the roadbed I'm using (WS sheet roadbed) is a little too 'spongy' for them, and the fact that I'm continually running very heavy brass steamers over them.
The Peco Code 83 seems much sturdier at least in my situation. I've had no problems with them at all. And believe me, this is not to put the Walthers Sinohara down at all---I think they're pretty terrific. The ones on my mainline are pretty flawless. It's just that in my particular yard situation, the Peco seems to be better for what I need.
tom,
we probably have an apples and oranges thing here. my opinoin goes out the window when it comes to code 83 and any roadbed other than wood or cork. i have no experience in those areas. (too hardheaded to try)
i will tell you what i did to make the code 100 shinohara's dependable. first, use a mult-meter to find out exactly where the problem lies. a couple of wires and a light bulb will work too. burnish the contact surfaces of the points and stock rails with one of those little point burnishing tools. just hold the switch closed and work it back and forth. use a liberal application of contact enhancer. i get mine at radio shack in one of those little felt tip pen looking gadgets. be sure to wet the little brass tabs under the points too.
if the current is flowing ok to the points but still not to the frog, smack that little rivet in the pivot with a center punch while backing it up from below with a flat punch or nail. if the switch is already on the layout, then drill down through the rivet hole and install a 19 ga. flat head nail to hold it down tight (this only works if you have a firm substance under it. probably no good with foam.)
when installing caboose industries ground throws, forget mechanical fasteners like screws or nails. just center the switch points and the ground throw and then use a SMALL drop of super glue applied along each side of the base plate while holding it in position with a hobby knife or small screwdriver. don't get glue in the moving parts. a little labelle oil on the ground throw and throw bar and you are in business. this probably will not work with foam roadbed.
i have over 100 switches in service and over half of them are shinohara. i do not have and will not tolerate mechanical or electrical problems with trackwork. (brag-brag)
cwhowell2 I've been told that Peco turnouts are the way to go but a quick check of the 2009 Walthers catalog lists a #8 at $43. I have used Walthers (Shinohara) in the past and was perfectly happy with them. A #8 is $20 MSRP. So are the Peco's twice as good? Thanks - Bill
May I suggest Atlas code 83? If you have not looked at the Atlas code 83 line you should. Atlas turnouts are much improved over years past, cost way less than both those other brands, and I know many modelers and several clubs who use them with no problems and no modifications. No shiming frogs and guard rails, no soldering special jumpers, etc,etc.
The only thing I have ever had to do is file the top of a frog down now and then that sometimes sits a couple thousandths higher than the running rails.
They are DCC friendly out of the box, the metal frogs are isolated but easily powered. Avererage street price, even for a #8 - yes they make a #8, is $12-$14.
I even take them apart and use the points and frogs to hand lay custom stuff I need. And I have made very gentle curved turnouts from them by simply cutting the tie strip bridges under the rail and bending them.
Properly painted and weathered they look just as good as those expensive brands to me.
Sheldon
Hands down Walthers/Shinohara in my O/P are much better. Peco's are ok but if you look at the two side by side the W/S looks more prototypical. I run the gamet on my layout only becasue I am a cheap old fart who reuses old stuff. (They think this recycling stuff is something new..ha) becasue I refuse to just throw somethign out that still works. I think Micro Engineering turnouts blow both of the two out of the water but the problem is they only make #6 turnouts unless your into hand laying your own, I'll pass on that one with my fat fingers. Before you buy from Walthers do a product search on the internet it's almost a given that you can find what ever you want a lot cheaper.
Griz, I have found that an occasional spritz of tuner or contact cleaner, from the shack, applied to both the rail-point contact area, and also the pad that the bottom of the point touches romoves any oxides, dust, etc. I also believe that Walther's has a lot more size/varieties of turnouts to select from. I run DCC and am very happy with the Walther's DCC friendly turnouts, though I have run on layouts that are all PECO and found them satisfactory. John
Allegheny2-6-6-6 Hands down Walthers/Shinohara in my O/P are much better. Peco's are ok but if you look at the two side by side the W/S looks more prototypical.
Hands down Walthers/Shinohara in my O/P are much better. Peco's are ok but if you look at the two side by side the W/S looks more prototypical.
Are you talking about the new PECO Code 83 or the older PECO C75 and C100? I certainly wouldn't have said that the Walthers look "more prototypical" than the PECO Code 83, which are completely different from their earlier C75 and C100 turnouts. The PECO C83 look great and are also a bit more compact than the Walthers for the same frog numbers, in my experience. But both are fine products and to each his or her own.
Agreed. The newer Peco Streamline Code 83 turnouts are NMRA standardized to a healthy extent and look exactly like your typical N. American turnout. It is the older, curved European style Code 100 Pecos that you must be familiar with.
I use the Streamline Code 83 #6 Insulfrog turnouts exclusively in my yard. Really good turnouts.
-Crandell
I have switched (no pun intended) to the PECO Streamline Code 83 insulfrogs.
To me they look a little better than the Walthers.
One reason is the ability to assemble cross overs without cutting the rails. I use 2 inch track centers and the PECO's assemble without cutting. I will use up my existing Walthers for industrial siding turnouts but not crossovers.
Another reason is availablity. Does anyone remember a few years back when you could not find Walthers code 83 turnouts? I believe it took 6 months for my local Hobby Shop to get these in from Walthers. This is when I first tried the PECOs and I have been sold ever since on PECO.
As to conductivity issues. I have one or two Walthers that are stalling short wheelbase switchers. I am thinking this is more of an installation problem than a Walthers problem. The turnout is not yet permanently installed and it floats up until the loco weight is on it.
RDG1519 One reason is the ability to assemble cross overs without cutting the rails. I use 2 inch track centers and the PECO's assemble without cutting. I will use up my existing Walthers for industrial siding turnouts but not crossovers. Another reason is availablity. Does anyone remember a few years back when you could not find Walthers code 83 turnouts?
Another reason is availablity. Does anyone remember a few years back when you could not find Walthers code 83 turnouts?
These are all reasons I use Atlas code 83 Custom Line. They too assemble into crossovers and yard ladders without cutting, and one product offers you the choice of an insulated or powered frog.
You gents with the Peco experience. Are you talking about Peco STREAMLINE (US Prototype) or regular PECO?
I am referring to PECO Streamline Code 83. I model using DCC so I use the insulfrog. I do not have any experience with the Code 100 stuff.
I am quite happy even though they cost more. I would like to see a code 83 three way with insulfrog from PECO.
Chris
Atlantic Central,
Yes, my last layout, an 18" x 16' shelf RR, used Atlas exclusively. They were great and affordable, but this time I'm looking for something a bit more proto. Also have the need for several curved turnouts and I'm just not into handlaying. Thanks for your reply. - Bill
cwhowell2 Atlantic Central, Yes, my last layout, an 18" x 16' shelf RR, used Atlas exclusively. They were great and affordable, but this time I'm looking for something a bit more proto. Also have the need for several curved turnouts and I'm just not into handlaying. Thanks for your reply. - Bill
Bill,
Then I assume you are looking at the new PECO code 83 line? But there are no curves turnouts offered there yet either?
I would agree that the new PECO "North American style" code 83 line is very good looking, their other products not so much so in my opinion. Personally I have never been comfortable with European curved frogs.
Did you use Atlas code 83 or code 100 in the past? The detail on the Atlas code 83 line is much finer than even the improved version of the code 100. Sounds to me like the Walthers product is what your looking for.
Sheldon - I've been using code 83 exclusively ever since it was first introduced. (1970's?) You are right about no Peco curved turnouts in American Style cd83. I didn't read the Walthers catalog close enough and I see that they are available in cd75 & 100 only. Looks like one more reason for me to stick with Walthers. Another good reason is that I checked online and found that everything except the double crossover is in stock. - Bill
Curved turnouts are available from PECO in Code 83 Streamlined series. Both insulfrog and electrofrog. They are listed in the pricelist as the 7 or 71/2 (the package is not in front of me), they are curved not straight. My trackplan software shows these as well. The wye is also available.
Bill, whereas Walthers has this stuff in stock now you could not find their code 83 two years ago when I was starting to build. How does a company let their track "line" get out of stock for months? Don't get me wrong I like Walthers but this was not one of their best moments.
Hope this is helpful.
Hudson You gents with the Peco experience. Are you talking about Peco STREAMLINE (US Prototype) or regular PECO?
The code 83 turnouts I replaced in my yard are the new Peco 'Streamline'. Since I am DC, I used the Electrofrog turnouts (selective routing), and they're working just fine. Given that my base is foam and not plywood or Homosote, I can't really install under-table switch machines, so the 'centered' spring on the Peco gives me positive contact with every throw of the turnout bar.
They look good and they operate even better.
RDG1519 Curved turnouts are available from PECO in Code 83 Streamlined series. Both insulfrog and electrofrog. They are listed in the pricelist as the 7 or 71/2 (the package is not in front of me), they are curved not straight. My trackplan software shows these as well. The wye is also available.
Yes, I see on the PECO web site the #7 is indeed a curved turnout. But there is no mention of aproximate radii.
In all my 40 years in this hobby, I have never had a commercial curved turnout be available in the size needed. Personaly , like the prototype, I avoid curved turnouts and slip switches, and when they are needed I build them to fit.
The rest of the time a well painted and ballested Atlas code 83 turnout works just fine for me.
Tom, I konw lots of people are doing it, but I still can't get my head around the idea of laying track on foam. as for switch machines, a plastic plate can be attached to the bottom of the turnout to support the switch machine, even in foam.
With over 100 turnouts on my layout, the difference between $12 and $30 is a lot, for what I see as a very small improvement in appearance.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Tom, I konw lots of people are doing it, but I still can't get my head around the idea of laying track on foam. as for switch machines, a plastic plate can be attached to the bottom of the turnout to support the switch machine, even in foam. With over 100 turnouts on my layout, the difference between $12 and $30 is a lot, for what I see as a very small improvement in appearance. Sheldon
Sheldon:
In your case, I completely agree. I have approximately 14 turnouts on my entire layout, and most of them are in my yard. If I had your number, I'm sure that I'd certainly be thinking differently.
BTW: Thanks for the idea of the plastic plate. You know, I've never thought of that. Your comment is another helpful example of why this forum is so useful to me.
Thanks.
Peco #7 curved Turnout Nominal radii: Outside 60 inch, Inside 36 inch.
I use the Electrofrog turnouts, I chose them because I thought they looked the best and I have no trouble with them with DCC.
Steve_F Peco #7 curved Turnout Nominal radii: Outside 60 inch, Inside 36 inch. I use the Electrofrog turnouts, I chose them because I thought they looked the best and I have no trouble with them with DCC.
Very interesting numbers. Walthers 6 1/2 curved T/O is 24" and 20". Sixty inch sounds more like O scale?
cwhowell2 Steve_F Peco #7 curved Turnout Nominal radii: Outside 60 inch, Inside 36 inch. I use the Electrofrog turnouts, I chose them because I thought they looked the best and I have no trouble with them with DCC. Very interesting numbers. Walthers 6 1/2 curved T/O is 24" and 20". Sixty inch sounds more like O scale?
Turnout number only relates to the angle of the frog. With a curved turnout there are a number of other controling dimensions that effect aprox. radii of each route. Over all length from frog to points, basic radius of 1st curve, frog number, all work together to determine the 2nd radius. A small increase in frog number will dramaticly increase the larger radius compaired to the smaller one.
Up til now I was leaning toward building turnouts from Fast Tracks. But I went and bought two #6 and two #8 Atlas Code 83 switches just to see how they would work with my Big Boys on a small test track. Heck, both sizes worked just fine.... this might be an interesting option and YOU CANT BEAT that price. Thanks for suggesting them Atlas. They look just fine too. So this might be a good option for me.
I have had an issue with Atlas code 83 turnouts, 3 of 9 turnouts have a problem with the points breaking free of the throw bar and floating instead of being securely fastened. I found (i hope) a solution on this forum, you may want to add this mod on the bench before install,I hope this solves my problem, if not I will have to look for another brand. I have been considering Peco, but I'm not ready to give up yet.
http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/p/53355/675723.aspx#675723
I haven't heard alot about this until the other day, maybe it was only a certain batch of turnouts that do this, I don't know.
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