I keep on changing my layout plan as I learn new things and get new ideas. I decided to move my yard from one side of the layout to another, and that brings in some new space restrictions. I read a few things on yard design, and hopefully I got a good one. The relevant background info:
Scale: HOMax train length: 5 cars + engineWalls: to top and left on picture.Walkways: to right and centerMost switches are No. 4 with some No. 6s
I'd appreciate any advice or critique of this plan. Thanks in advance!
EDIT: The link isn't working now, so just copy/paste this: http://s274.photobucket.com/albums/jj259/bladegolem47/?action=view¤t=revision3yard.jpg
I get an error message when I try to view a larger image. Try re-posting it.
Darrell, quiet...for now
I'm not sure why the link isn't working... it should. I did put an address to c/p, though. Hope that helps.
A few quick things:
* The engine track, washout track, and MOW track are switchbacks that require the top-most body track be kept clear in order to be accessed/worked. That body track does not appear to be long enough to pull full cuts from those tracks, but maybe it's not necessary to do that.
* The yard ladder will be fouled by road engines going from the A/D to the engine track. This may or may not be a problem depending on how busy you plan your yard to be.
* Consider using curved turnouts to go from the main to the A/D. They may buy you some more length for the other tracks.
The previous poster identified all of the things I might have mentioned already.
The link thing is a MR server issue I think, not anything we can do about it.
JSperanThe link thing is a MR server issue I think, not anything we can do about it.
Yes, you are right. I'm getting an OOOPS message.
Bob
Don't Ever Give Up
Flip your ladder so it runs "top left to bottom right".
Servicing area in the left hand corner under your yard lead. A/D tracks run from the "top left" off the yard lead diagonally to the bottom right to meet up with the main track.
I'll add a diagram in a couple hours. Need to take care of supper and a few odds and ends.
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odaveA few quick things: * The engine track, washout track, and MOW track are switchbacks that require the top-most body track be kept clear in order to be accessed/worked. That body track does not appear to be long enough to pull full cuts from those tracks, but maybe it's not necessary to do that. * The yard ladder will be fouled by road engines going from the A/D to the engine track. This may or may not be a problem depending on how busy you plan your yard to be. * Consider using curved turnouts to go from the main to the A/D. They may buy you some more length for the other tracks.
First off, thanks for replying.
The service/MoW tracks are in an odd spot, yes. The other option I was considering would be to branch them off from near the curve on the yard lead, and extend the lead out longer. Maybe throw in a runaround near the end, too.
I did wonder about the yard ladder. I don't imagine this layout will be very busy- the whole area is 9x11 feet, approx. Most of the traffic will be locals, and the yard can hold a full 4 trains, not including the A/D tracks.
I hadn't thought about curved turnouts, but the cost is somewhat prohibitive. Last I checked, they were pretty expensive comparatively.
GraniteRailroader Flip your ladder so it runs "top left to bottom right". Servicing area in the left hand corner under your yard lead. A/D tracks run from the "top left" off the yard lead diagonally to the bottom right to meet up with the main track. I'll add a diagram in a couple hours. Need to take care of supper and a few odds and ends.
Sorry, didn't see your post last night or I would have responded. I'm curious as to the reasons why you recommended those changes, however.
This is what I come up with for moving the service/Misc. tracks around. It seems like that's a better operation plan. I'm hoping the silence in this thread means there aren't any glaring problems in my plan.
Wikious GraniteRailroader Flip your ladder so it runs "top left to bottom right". Servicing area in the left hand corner under your yard lead. A/D tracks run from the "top left" off the yard lead diagonally to the bottom right to meet up with the main track. I'll add a diagram in a couple hours. Need to take care of supper and a few odds and ends. Sorry, didn't see your post last night or I would have responded. I'm curious as to the reasons why you recommended those changes, however.
He might mean something like this:
Reason : yard ladder more accessible - shorter tracks in front, longer behind - ie you can see what is on all the yard tracks (closest to the turnout).
Smile, Stein
To open a larger image, right click and the open view image. It works for me every time. I use FireFox.
Ken G Price My N-Scale Layout
Digitrax Super Empire Builder Radio System. South Valley Texas Railroad. SVTRR
N-Scale out west. 1996-1998 or so! UP, SP, Missouri Pacific, C&NW.
I like the thinking behind Stiens plan but The service tracks should be on the yard side of the main. Great thoughts on keeping things closer for easier operation and the ability to read car #'s and such.
John
spidgeI like the thinking behind Stiens plan
I like the thinking behind Stiens plan
Stein - meaning "rock". Stien means "the path". Totally different word in my language :-)
spidgebut The service tracks should be on the yard side of the main. Great thoughts on keeping things closer for easier operation and the ability to read car #'s and such.
but The service tracks should be on the yard side of the main. Great thoughts on keeping things closer for easier operation and the ability to read car #'s and such.
Yes, you can move them to the other side of the main if you want to - but _if_ you let those tracks branch off from the main somewhere, it doesn't really matter if they are on the inside or the outside of the main - going between the main part of the yard and the service tracks will still foul the main as long as the service tracks come off the main-
Reason the main is right next to the yard lead and right next to A/D track 1 (thus pushing the engine service tracks to between the main and the aisle, is that I contemplated a crossover from the left end of the A/D tracks to the main, so trains could arrive going clockwise and depart going counterclockwise, without fouling the yard kdead.
But I couldn't get it to work very well. So I finally just stuck a crossover between the lowermost end of the yard lead and the main to allow trains to arrive going clockwise and depart counterclockwise, via the yard lead (while the switcher will just have to get out of the way for a moment during arrival/departure this way.
Grin, Stein
steinjr Stein - meaning "rock". Stien means "the path". Totally different word in my language :-)
...but your input has kept so many of us on "the path", therefore you "rock"! (as my kids would say) Thus I think both would fit
spidgebut The service tracks should be on the yard side of the main.
How about sliding the main down, so the curve easement feeds directly into the crossover, and have the engine tracks come off the left end of A/D 1?
Tradeoffs would be a shorter main, needing to leave the left end of A/D 1 clear for engines going to service, and maybe not as much room for modeling the service area. There's a switchback for engines on trains arriving from the CCW on A/D 2, but I think you'd have that anyway.
I don't think Wikious is planning on having a lot of traffic, so fouling the yard lead may not be such a big deal. I have a similar arrangement for hostlers moving to service on my sedate short line, which will see only 6 or so trains per day.
LOL - I just realized that the yard designs we have been kicking around essentially are repeats of a posts from June/July 2008.
Back then Wikious started out with this design:
I made some suggestions, based on him among other things having a yard operator located outside the layout. And on the reach issues in his original design.
The yard design Wikious started with this time looked a bit like what I suggested to him back then (room is rotated 90 degrees clockwise relative to plan above):
A crossover was later added between the main and the uppermost A/D track. And yeah - an 18" walkway between staging and a rarely use cupboard is too tight - as I recall there was much more aisle space than 2' deep walkways to the bottom and left in the plan above.
Wikious then came up with this plan:
We again commented on the reach issues (too deep benchwork many places), but forget that for a moment.
WSOR then suggested a way of hooking up the A/D tracks in much the same way as GraniteRailroader suggested this time - ie with a yard ladder sloping towards pit, A/D tracks could be parallel to the yard ladder, also sloping, engine track between main and yard ladder.:
Yard and yard ladder here looks an awful lot like what we are suggesting in this thread, doesn't it ?
Just goes to prove that there is little new under the sun, I guess. And that making changes sometimes can trigger other changes.
Like when you move the layout to another position/orientation, so that you no longer have a yard operator's position on the outside of the layout, but instead have a wall on the other side of the yard, it makes significant changes in how and from where the yard will be operated, and may cause a redesign.
It also illustrates why it may be smart (at least for smaller designs) to look at a design as a whole, instead of just cutting out a piece of it (like the yard) and then try to optimize the yard separately from the rest of the design.
When I look at Wikious's second plan from this thread, and take into account that there are walls on the left and top, but not on the right (and bottom) of the plan below - so it would be possible to reach stuff on the far right of the yard from the outside, if necessary, then my comments would be
A/D track is short (max 4-5 cars without fouling the main), but that may not be a big deal if nothing else is moving on the main while he is taking a train into or out of the yard.
Yard ladder is sloping away from the operator position instead of sloping towards the operator position, making it harder to see and reach turnouts and harder to uncouple cars at the start of the yard tracks.
And that little track cutting the inner right corner helps making the reach issue worse for the furthest yard tracks.
Wikious - reach continues to be an issue for your designs. Try to check reach distances from the aisle to tracks, and imagine that there are buildings or trains between you and what you are trying to reach. Then do a mock-up out of old cardboard or something at the height you want the layout to be at and see if you can reach that far back.
I guess that what would be a good design for his yard depends on how and where he plans to access it from, how the yard will fit into the rest of his layout, and whether the yard is sized sensibly relative to the size of his staging and industries.
Hmm, I hadn't realized how similar things were this year compared to last year. And here I thought I was making progress.
I plan to access the yard from the inside area, where all the text is sitting. From there, I could easily reach most of the yard, except for the last foot or two of the yard tracks.
I did make a track plan this last winter that had a yard closer to the operator (on a different section of the layout) which was inside the loop of track- required to make the yard ladder go towards the operator. However, orienting the yard like that meant limited space for a yard lead or other tracks, and led to a cramped, curving, main-fouling design.
Hopefully I'll get something that works well someday. In the meantime, I have to thank you all for repeatedly helping me learn how to design a better track plan.
steinjr He might mean something like this: Reason : yard ladder more accessible - shorter tracks in front, longer behind - ie you can see what is on all the yard tracks (closest to the turnout).
Mmmm - I messed a little more with this plan. In theory, if I sacrifice a yard track and make the A/D tracks shorter (max engine + seven 40-foot car equivalents), it should be possible to fit in an engine svc track and a cleaning track and still maintain a fairly slim profile for the yard and fairly decent curves (r=25-30").
Edit: I obviously meant "yard lead" rather than "yard ladder" on both figures ....
I have used Peco code 75 turnouts - the ones shown in red is curved turnouts, the rest are medium straight right and left turnouts.
Whether this would be possible to build with decent curve radii depends on what turnouts you use.