And basically, what all it is that I need for a semi-typical river port, and how I might go about it based on your feedback. Sir Madog did a wonderfuls wicher, but it doesn't fit in my space crunch, below.
Color code: Turqoise is supposed river,. the Isle River, actaully a walkway to the closet, and a standing area in the actual harbor itself. (Say it, it'll make more sense) Blue is mainline, red is passenger and primary main, green is standard rail for the rest of the town, and the seaplane base, purple yard controls a carfloat *Cough* Cassette */Cough* just left of screen, on the ends of the bridge. The white areas aren't wet areas, and stuff could kinda be put there, and piped across the main, should it be neccesary. Also, there's an Arch Bridge track right of the walkway river marking, ignore that, just saw it when I uploaded picture, dunno how it got there.
12 inch grid
What's going on: Basically the town of Half-Moon sits on a river, with a healthy sized port, a brewery, a town, etc. Inside the harbor, is a seaplane/copter base, and a boat builder, who also runs the yacht club. Operator (Dad or I) can stand inside the ahrbor to run the yards. Across the river, is a resort town, a bunch of old mines, and a carfloat connecting to another branchline. A while back the branchline was hard-connected that went into a valley through a cut, river on one side, rock on the other. Several several rr served businesses existed down there. A massive landslide made that connection no longer true, and the railroad has currently been serving them with a carfloat until someone gets tired of the boat and comes up it the funds to re-open the train track. The highway is too curvy for some machinery, so hey really want the tracks within the valley, and have settled on the float. (What's really gonna happen, is that when I move out of Dad's house to my own place, I'll model the other end of that car-float. I'm think electrified main, powered by Hydro, an excuse to run AEMs and HHPs in freight service, with an SW1500 or MP15 or bth or two incase power's down and for branch lines off the electric trunk.)
My trouble is the area on the river itself, right hand side of the screen. You can see my failed attempt in the two track siding. Barges, river fishers, similar sized craft running small freight, could do at least something there, but I don't really know what, or what the options are. Do refuels for the tugs need to be modelled, or assumed? Feel free to toss out general ideas too, get me asking questions.
-Morgan
Hi
I don't get it right, nor you trackplan, nor your questions. Being born and raised near the harbour I can tell you some but I need to know a bit more precise information before really commenting on your design.
Is only the area in front of Ignore between the blue/green line and the river as far as Archbridge available?
What do you want the very most in that "front"area? Do you have the ferry apron somewhere else? Or does it has to fit in the "front" as well?
Tugboat company's usualy have their own "home" pier, it must be modelled when you'r a tug lover; it can be on the none modelled part of course. Sometimes they had their own refueling station, could be a short spur nearby, with a tankcar on it, and a pipe for the last yards. Refueling is (was) often done by a (tank)boat; imagine a harbor with a tankcar spur to every possible mooring spot; no way . Driving a truck along can be an option too. Are you freelancing? Just pick the one you fancy.
River fishing usualy wasn't a big time operation, so fishpackers, cannery's and railconnections are out unless....... your port is near one of the great lakes (if there still is any fish left of course) or the sea..
If your port houses a boatyard and a yachtclub I start thinking about a sea nearby; my problem. I have a few more questions. What's beyond yachtclub and Seaplane Base? Is the "inlet" another river or is it supposed to be a dock? Anyhow the big bridge in front of the inlet is highly unprototypecaly. Big bridges should always have a 90 degree angle with the river, and your bridge is dangerously narrowing the entrance of the inlet, from a captain's and the marine authority's point of view. Is a re-design still possible?
The space you have do deal with is small, think long about the stuff you want to model the very most. RTS has two nice options, you can draw buildings (rectangles)and label them, both very easely. Please do, so i have a better understanding what is going on in your town.
Have fun, good luck
Paul
Paulus JasIf your port houses a boatyard and a yachtclub I start thinking about a sea nearby; my problem. I have a few more questions. What's beyond yachtclub and Seaplane Base? Is the "inlet" another river or is it supposed to be a dock? Anyhow the big bridge in front of the inlet is highly unprototypecaly. Big bridges should always have a 90 degree angle with the river, and your bridge is dangerously narrowing the entrance of the inlet, from a captain's and the marine authority's point of view. Is a re-design still possible?
Possibly, but there's a door below the bridge, I can't shoot straight across and up, and a stairwell is right beyond the farthest black edge, so I really can't get a decent curve there, either, so I split the difference and went across that way. An easier method is welcome, I'm not seeing it. The ignore area is somewhat still flexible, considering it partially cured concrete, that;s why I haven't detailed it. It's there, it really needs to hold that shape, we could push back a foot, if the think it would help. That mainline curve will likely be an entracnce into the layout. The north curve is following the edge around the staris, and I dont want to go to far across the gap. ANd the one coming off the bride could become an angled plate.
Small yachts, It;s kinda going off of the clubs I see on the Ohio when I get down to that edge of IN. The seaplanes were a must have from some stories Dad and I came up with in the days when we drove from West of Indianapolis to his place near Cinncy. Same is true for the boatworks. It's a small operation, but then, there's also the Jefferson Bargeworks, I've only seen the fences of it. For the boatworks, the thought was maybe the newest blue one, or we scratch fro, wall panels. NO clue on wat to do with the Seaplanes, we just know we want them. That we'll be a C shape around the edges of the yards, so we can still reach the yards.
Paulus JasWhat do you want the very most in that "front"area? Do you have the ferry apron somewhere else? Or does it has to fit in the "front" as well?
Paulus JasThe space you have do deal with is small, think long about the stuff you want to model the very most.
Some waterside industries I've seen are:
I like the idea of barging in bulk commodities for use in rail served industries.
Good luck
Greg Amer
The Industrial Lead
Hi,
If you can't change the bridge, you can change Ignore. Ignore seems to point to the bridge, which is making the waterway to shallow; the red tracks could become the shore. Pushing the main a foot inwards is also giving you a bit more space for industrial development towards the archbridge.
Barge traffic is great, but keep the quantity's in mind. Coal traffic needs huge piles of coal and is eating up more width then you like. Grain onloading could be done through a overhead pipe system, keeping the elevators or mills on the backdrop. A quay with a freighthouse/warehouse and a crane for general unloading is always hot. Look around in the area and you'll find even more commodity's coming in from or going to the harbour. Where I lived wood and oil came in by boat. Wood was stored wet, so you could build a nice scene along the shore; when oak dries out it is difficult to process. The tugboat "home", with four or five tugs waiting for their next call. Add space for the truckers and workers too. Just take your time and take a walk along the docksides in your area. Sand and cement (or lime) unloading for the building industry; brickfactory's (where they make the bricks) are landmark sides if your riverbed contains clay.
Just a few ideas.
Morgan --
I understand why Paulus was confused by your drawing - it is a pretty confusing figure, and your explanations doesn't really make it much clearer.
But if we remove all irrelevant and confusing verbiage, and ignore all issues and potential issues with the rest of your layout, your question seems to boil down to roughly :
"I have an area that is about 5 feet long, between an existing track and a harbor/riverfront (water will be modeled as being in the aisle) where I'd like to put one or more river/harbor related rail served industries. I am okay with locating an industry mostly on the other side of the twin track mainline, where there is ample space and just have the loading/unloading part along the water's edge. I am not going to be too clear about what scale I am modeling in, how deep this 5-foot long area is, how wide the aisle is (so you guys could have an ideas about whether an industry could jut out into the aisle), layout height, if I need any kind of access from the aisle across this area to the area on the other side of the mainline (so you guys could have an idea about how tall structures could be), what era I model or what location I model (*).What industries could I model in this area?".
"I have an area that is about 5 feet long, between an existing track and a harbor/riverfront (water will be modeled as being in the aisle) where I'd like to put one or more river/harbor related rail served industries.
I am okay with locating an industry mostly on the other side of the twin track mainline, where there is ample space and just have the loading/unloading part along the water's edge.
I am not going to be too clear about what scale I am modeling in, how deep this 5-foot long area is, how wide the aisle is (so you guys could have an ideas about whether an industry could jut out into the aisle), layout height, if I need any kind of access from the aisle across this area to the area on the other side of the mainline (so you guys could have an idea about how tall structures could be), what era I model or what location I model (*).
Would that be a reasonable summary of what you have posted so far?
(*) I suppose the mentioning of "Cinny" (Cincinnati) and the Ohio River could be a clue, although a "seaplane base" or a "yacht club" doesn't really make a lot of sense in the context of the Ohio River in the Cincinnati area.
Here are some current era river-served (and rail served/potentially rail served) industries along West Mehring Way and Southside Avenue in Cincinnati (courtesy of www.bing.com/maps and "bird's eye view":
West Mehring Way:
Coal unloading
Scrap dealer, with background tracks elevated
Sidings/"industry yard" area alongside river
Southside Avenue:
Fuel transloading
Grain transloading
Cement transloading
Chemicals (?) transloading
There is probably tons of other modelgenic operations up or down the river. No clue if they would fit into your modelled era and concept, but have a look, scroll up and down the river and see what you find.
Don't forget to also look on the south side of the river - in Kentucky.
Here is e.g. a tiny little industry of some kind that apparently is river served:
Good luck in finding yourself an industry for your layout.
Stein
thank you for the plenty of river ideas. The clsoest river large enough to be useful to me is 2+ hrs away, and these are useful.
Yep, I haven't alloted enough room. I do like the chemical idea, as I can tie it into another piece further down the line. Grain probably too.
steinjr Here are some current era river-served (and rail served/potentially rail served) industries along West Mehring Way and Southside Avenue in Cincinnati (courtesy of www.bing.com/maps and "bird's eye view": West Mehring Way: Coal unloading Scrap dealer, with background tracks elevated Sidings/"industry yard" area alongside river Southside Avenue: Fuel transloading Grain transloading Cement transloading Chemicals (?) transloading There is probably tons of other modelgenic operations up or down the river. No clue if they would fit into your modelled era and concept, but have a look, scroll up and down the river and see what you find. Don't forget to also look on the south side of the river - in Kentucky. Here is e.g. a tiny little industry of some kind that apparently is river served: Good luck in finding yourself an industry for your layout. Stein
That little industry looks a lot like the boat-in restaurant I've seen in Madison IN: http://maps.google.com/maps?q=madison+IN&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-Address&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7ADBS_en&um=1&ie=UTF-8&split=0&gl=us&ei=jrV_StrQKIXCNbbJ-d0C&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=title&resnum=1
Thanks again
FlashwaveThat little industry looks a lot like the boat-in restaurant I've seen in Madison IN: http://maps.google.com/maps?q=madison+IN&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-Address&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7ADBS_en&um=1&ie=UTF-8&split=0&gl=us&ei=jrV_StrQKIXCNbbJ-d0C&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=title&resnum=1
Hmmm - across the road from Poplar Street ? There seems to be car parking along the riverside there, and a barge/pier which has some bright colors there.
FlashwaveThe clsoest river large enough to be useful to me is 2+ hrs away, and these are useful.
The clsoest river large enough to be useful to me is 2+ hrs away, and these are useful.
The Ohio River is about 9-10 hours by plane, with at least one transfer, from where I live (Sorumsand, 30 miles east of Oslo in the kingdom of Norway, in northern Europe) :-)
Seriously - you don't have to visit a place in person to see what it looks like or looked like.
Both google and bing.com (Microsoft's search service) has maps with aerial pictures, and there are many other places online that has historical photos from all kinds of places.
Here is e.g. a public domain historical photo taken by Anders Beer Wilse in 1907 showing the RR station in the small town where I live here in Norway: http://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fil:S%C3%B8rumsand_stasjon.jpeg. Passenger car from the narrow gauge tertiary railroad on the right of the station and the normal gauge mainline track on the left of the station.
Two (of many) interesting online places for American historical photos are the Library of Congress - which has several interesting collections, and the website http://www.shorpy.com, which often has interesting pictures.
Grin, Stein
steinjr FlashwaveThat little industry looks a lot like the boat-in restaurant I've seen in Madison IN: http://maps.google.com/maps?q=madison+IN&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-Address&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7ADBS_en&um=1&ie=UTF-8&split=0&gl=us&ei=jrV_StrQKIXCNbbJ-d0C&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=title&resnum=1 Hmmm - across the road from Poplar Street ? There seems to be car parking along the riverside there, and a barge/pier which has some bright colors there.
steinjr Seriously - you don't have to visit a place in person to see what it looks like or looked like. Both google and bing.com (Microsoft's search service) has maps with aerial pictures, and there are many other places online that has historical photos from all kinds of places.
I know, I did that with a layout I was playing with of the Madison Railroad (North of the river, up the steep incline) But there's a lot more river than ports, I've been looking at what I suspect was the hardway. and you guys were able to jump to info a lot faster than I had been. I've been puzzling on the habor for a better part of a little while now, this is only incarnation of Half-Moon 6.1. And occasionally, being there is more useful than just looking at the roof, if only to be able to make out details more clearly.