Texas ZepherIRONROOSTERTexas ZepherIRONROOSTERyou will need new joiners and I don't think you will find any brass onesNothing says one could not use nickel-silver rail joiners. They are both cathodic.... You could, but wouldn't that emphasize the brass color of the rail? And the size of the rail joiner?Yeah but, don't most people paint the sides of their rail these days anyway?
IRONROOSTERTexas ZepherIRONROOSTERyou will need new joiners and I don't think you will find any brass onesNothing says one could not use nickel-silver rail joiners. They are both cathodic.... You could, but wouldn't that emphasize the brass color of the rail? And the size of the rail joiner?
Texas ZepherIRONROOSTERyou will need new joiners and I don't think you will find any brass onesNothing says one could not use nickel-silver rail joiners. They are both cathodic....
IRONROOSTERyou will need new joiners and I don't think you will find any brass ones
Paint would hide it, but I don't know how many paint the rail sides. Looking at the layouts in MR doesn't really give you a good idea of the average layout. Of course in this case it might be an incentive tp paint them.
Enjoy
Paul
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You could, but wouldn't that emphasize the brass color of the rail? And the size of the rail joiner?
But of course if that's what you need to do, it's better than not having layout.
But back to the question. Best for what? As the others have said nickel-silver is best for looks (I've never seen a shiny gold surface on the top of a real rail) and for operational cleanliness. Brass is best for electrical conductivity, but just add a few more copper feeders to the nickel-silver track and that that becomes a non-issue.
Well I don't have anything close to a "clean room".
The layout is in the basement which has a concrete floor below, joists above, and insulation bats over cinder block. It shares space with the washer/dryer, the furnace, my work bench, and whatever blows in the basement door.
Nickel Silver is great, I can go months without cleaning it.
Current layout has been under construction in the track laying/wiring phase since last January and has not needed cleaning yet. Trains run fine.
Geared Steam TomDiehl Cleaning is cleaning, no matter whether it's for oxidation or dust settling. Since few of us can afford to set up a clean room for our trains, still no advantage of one over the other. I would rather wipe up dust than polish off oxidation. Setting up a "clean" room is an exaggeration. we aren't building semiconductors here, I keep my home clean to begin with so it's not an extra effort for me.
TomDiehl Cleaning is cleaning, no matter whether it's for oxidation or dust settling. Since few of us can afford to set up a clean room for our trains, still no advantage of one over the other.
Cleaning is cleaning, no matter whether it's for oxidation or dust settling. Since few of us can afford to set up a clean room for our trains, still no advantage of one over the other.
I would rather wipe up dust than polish off oxidation. Setting up a "clean" room is an exaggeration. we aren't building semiconductors here, I keep my home clean to begin with so it's not an extra effort for me.
Not much of an exaggeration, if you look at the description of his room (the one in my original reply), the only thing missing for a semiconductor clean room is the positive air pressure.
The rate of oxidation of both brass and nickel silver (and also steel!) varies tremendously, depending on the environment in which it's located. Atmospheric dust and dirt also vary termendously. Which explains why experiences are so different.
In Northern Virginia with no A/C or humidity control, untouched brass oxidized in about 1 week. When I was at sea, you could see the tarnish develop on polished brass in one day. In coastal Oregon with fairly dry summers (once the fog lifted), and heat to dry things in the winter, brass would last about 2 weeks before oxidation set in. Here, at 7500ft in Colorado, oxidation is much slower - often months, depending on weather. But the very low humidity is accompanied by more dust and more sparking. FWIW, both brass and nickel silver get black spots from arcing and sparking.
Brass rail was relatively easy to clean; brass tender wheels and brass tender bolsters were not. The oxidation of the electrical path on the tenders was a real detriment to operation of my steam locos in Northern VA.
The advent of nickel silver rail and wheels was a godsend in Northern Virginia. The slower oxidation rate of the nickel silver, and the partial conductivity of the oxide made DC operations more reliable. Less cleaning was definitely a plus for nickel silver there. In Colorado, there's not so much difference. The dry wind picks up and deposits dust and dirt regardless of rail and wheel material.
The impact of DCC is to require low resistance paths throughout the circuit - nickel silver oxide is usually not a good enough conductor for DCC where it may have been barely good enough in DC at higher voltages. Therefore, the conductivity of nickel silver oxide is no longer an advantage with DCC. The only advantage of nickel silver electrically with DCC is the slower rate of oxidation.
Appearance is the last factor. Steel rail that is used by trains has a silver color on top, and is rusted/dirty on the sides and base. Nickel silver has a similar (but not the same!) silver color when polished. Different alloys of nickel silver have slightly different colors. More nickel is more silvery. More copper gives a slight yellow tint. The rail sides and base can be painted to match the prototype, regarless of rail material. Brass, when clean enough to conduct, has the characteristic yellow-gold color on top.
Finally, running trains polishes rail and metal wheels, just on the prototype. The heavier the trains, the greater the polishing effect. The polishing effect breaks down the softer oxidized layer, leaving a hardened, polished surface on the metal. Running trains frequently in HO scale and above is usually sufficient to keep oxidation at bay, both on brass and nickel silver rail. I'm not sure N scale trains have enough weight to break down the oxidation.
my thoughts, your choices
Fred W
A friend of mine used his last length of brass rail to serve a junk yard, and although this was not his intent, it did capture the permanently reddish brown look of rail that tends to serve such industries. As a rule his locomotives did not need to run much if at all on the rail because cars were shoved into the industry so the oxidation was not a problem. But you can get the same effect with NS rail if you use chemical patinas or blackeners.
The one main virtue to brass rail, apart from cheapness and ease of soldering, is that it is a good conductor of electricity.
Slightly off topic but during WWII when the government would not ration precious brass to the model train industry (and rightfully so of course) at least one firm came out with wood rail, with the thought that modelers would use it to replace bits of brass rail on sidings or yards where cars but not locomotives woudl run, and thus create a small supply of brass rail for other modeling purposes! At least that was the theory....
Dave Nelson
I'm with you Mark. Gleam the NS and you are good to go. I'm at over 3 years without having to give the layour a cleaning. a spot now and then but overall it just runs and runs..
I would rather wipe up dust than polish off oxidation. Setting up a "clean" room is an exaggeration. we aren't building sem-conductors here, I keep my home clean to begin with so it's not an extra effort for me.
To the OP, how much $ are we going to save here by using used brass track instead of new NS track? Are you building a 4 x8, a shelf layout or a layout that would fit in a Wal-Mart store? My guess is one of the first two, meaning savings will be minimal.
"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."-Albert Einstein
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Mark R. I can't believe no one has stated this fact yet .... Any metal will oxidize - the difference between brass and nickel silver is the fact that the oxidized surface of brass is an insulator and the oxidized surface of nickel silver is a conductor. Ok - Before you say "I still have to clean my NS rail !" .... you have to clean it not because of the naturally occurring oxidation, but rather because of air-borne particulate and matter transferrance from the wheels. Proof - My layout is in a sealed (no open rafters / cement floor / furnace) room that is climate controlled. I use NS rail exclusively that has all been burnished and polished with a metal protectant. I haven't cleaned my track in over five years. There are many times the layout sits for months on end, yet it always performs flawlessly when I want to run trains. Mark.
I can't believe no one has stated this fact yet ....
Any metal will oxidize - the difference between brass and nickel silver is the fact that the oxidized surface of brass is an insulator and the oxidized surface of nickel silver is a conductor.
Ok - Before you say "I still have to clean my NS rail !" .... you have to clean it not because of the naturally occurring oxidation, but rather because of air-borne particulate and matter transferrance from the wheels.
Proof - My layout is in a sealed (no open rafters / cement floor / furnace) room that is climate controlled. I use NS rail exclusively that has all been burnished and polished with a metal protectant. I haven't cleaned my track in over five years. There are many times the layout sits for months on end, yet it always performs flawlessly when I want to run trains.
Mark.
¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ
Nickle Silver track is what i would use if i were u.
I too mix Brass track with Nickel-silver and yes you can cut out the brass track and replace it with nickel-silver later as you are able to afford it.
Myself I tend to use my brass for old unused sidings or sidings that will be mostly unused by a Loco, short sidings where an industry is located (cars or MOW only thing on the track never a Loco). Temp rails setting around the MOW area, scrape loads, safety rails, anything you’re not expecting to run Locos on. Old track going to no where or ending at the edge of your layout or track leading to an off layout area or other parts not modeled.
There are many uses that old brass track can be used for and will save you money in the process.
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Shep'sKCSrailroad1987Which type of track do you perffer brass or nickle sliver track and can you use both? Tell what you would do. thanks
Which type of track do you perffer brass or nickle sliver track and can you use both? Tell what you would do. thanks
Brass will net you a higher price at the junk (oops not PC) "recycling" yard.
Lost of posts about this subject. Both can work but NS is by far the better if laying new track IMHO. The only drawback is that you will need more feeders due it it's lower conductivity.
Karl
The mind is like a parachute. It works better when it's open. www.stremy.net
Actually, I'm going to take the opposite tack here, with some personal observations: NS or brass, it doesn't really matter.
NS looks like steel rail, but rail rusts when exposed to the air (as soon as it comes out of the rolling mill) so I don't understand the color observation above. Brass is closer to the rust color, and some modellers have taken to painting the NS rail to make it look rusty. Seems like making extra work. If it's flex track and you curve it after the painting, you have to touch up the spots covered by the spike heads when you painted it initially.
Rail joiners: I've had both types (NS and brass) fail to conduct after a period of time, so no advantage there for either type. I solder feeds to each section of track and rely on the rail joiners only to hold the rail ends in alignment.
Cleaning: look up the term "track cleaning" in a search of the forums and see how many hits you get. I'm betting a lot of these people posting hints on cleaning are using NS track, so since you still have to clean NS track, I don't see an advantage over brass.
From what I can tell, brass rail is no longer available, so any new stuff you buy will be NS. I've combined the two types and have had no problems. Before laying the track, I buff the top of the rail and clean the ends where it will join, install the rail joiners and lay the track. This applies to both brass and NS rail, new and old stock.
Nickel Silver is the way to go. If cost is an issue, use the brass for now and replace it as you can afford to. When I first got into the hobby in 1971, NS was significantly more expensive than brass. So to keep costs down I used it on my first 2 layouts, even bought some brass rail and laid it on wooden ties. But it never looked right. The cost difference from brass decreased so I started using NS.
Another factor to consider is that old brass including rail joiners tarnishes, so unless you solder a feeder wire to every piece of track you will need new joiners and I don't think you will find any brass ones
Nickel Silver looks like steel.
Brass looks like steel that hasn't seen a wheel since sometime before the last rain or heavy dew.
Anyplace I expect to run a locomotive, I use nickel silver. Brass is used on the bumper ends of some sidings (specifically for that 'fresh corrosion' appearance) or, suitably painted, as scenic elements not including operation-ready track:
Steel rail is also suitable for use as scenery, if you happen to get some cheap train-set track at a yard sale.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
NICKEL SILVER! NICKLE SLIVER hasn't been on the market in many a moon!
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grizlump9 brass is pretty much considered obsolete these days. i cut up what i had and used it for flat car loads. grizlump
brass is pretty much considered obsolete these days. i cut up what i had and used it for flat car loads.
grizlump
i have a lot of brass track too,which some is atlas track code 83 which i cut some up but i kind of had to use it on my layout with the sliver nickle track but cant i cut the brass out and replace it. Shep'sKCSrailroad1987
Nickel silver is the best way to go. It doesn't tarnish as bad as brass. It looks more realistic and takes paint quite well for weathering the sides. I wouldn't mix the two. There are several reasons including maintenance and appearance. Besides, have you ever seen rails that are yellowish on the tops?
Just my
Will