Hello, all. My son and I (mostly me, he's five) are building a 5 X 10 foot layout in our basement. We've got a table built and the track plan trammeled out onto hardboard that's going to be the foundation for our cork roadbed. Trying to stay several steps ahead of where we're at, I need to begin looking for switches. I'll probably wind up going with either DCC or DCS from MTH, since I like the MTH K-4 and have one ordered.
Since I'll probably go with some sort of digital control, I need some expert (or more informed than me, anyway) advice on where to look for switches and switch machines that will be suitable for what I want to build.
The track plan is a figure eight / oval combination from a Kalmbach book, pretty simple. I need two left and one right hand and want to be able to throw them from a control panel. I just don;t want to buy something and find out it won;t work with digital or has to be reworked in a way that's beyond my skill level. Almost forgot, 22' radius curves all around. No variance, even into the small yard (one dead end siding)
Thanks.
to the forum!
Is there a specific reason, why you have chosen code 100 track? IMHO, code 83 track looks much better and takes just as much care in laying the track than code 100.
In any case, code 100 or code 83 switches are available from Atlas, or Peco or Walthers. I find Peco the most reliable brand, but they are a bit pricier than the other brands.
A word of caution: MTH´s DCS is not fully compatible with DCC, as your are going to operate not only locos from MTH, DCC, IMHO s the better choice!
I chose code 100 based simply on availability. My local hobby shop always has it on the shelf. I got a 10% discount for buying the whole box (75 feet) at one time. If I need more I can get it with a ten minute drive.
Thanks for the brand names on switches. I read about Atlas switches here and they seemed to perform well for those that had and discussed them, I'll look into them and the Peco.
Another newbie question: How hard is it to install switch motors? Is it worth buying them already installed? Does such an option even exist?
Sorry for all the dumb questions, but I figured I'd ask here before I blew money and wasted effort in a losing strategy.
Hi!
Welcome to the Forum! I'm in a hurry now so I'll make it short. I've used Atlas code 100 stuff for literally decades. For the money and availability, it can't be beat. Use their Custom line turnouts (not snap switches) and their offering of switch machines. The on top the layout machines hook into the turnouts in seconds, and are super reliable. The under table machines take some time/precision to get them properly installed, but they do a great job. Also consider the manual throws offered by Caboose Hobbies for turnouts close at hand. If you do, get the "sprung" ones.
ENJOY,
Mobilman44
ENJOY !
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
I, too, have used Atlas code 100 track and turnouts for a long time with good results. Because of limited space, I use a lot of the short-radius "snap switches." I run short diesels and short (40-foot) freight cars, mostly, and they have no problems with my tight turns.
The snap switches are equivalent to an 18-inch radius curve, so they may not fit your oveall curvature. On the other hand, the Custom Lines, like most other "prototypical" turnouts, have a very different profile. When you design your track plan, you need to know which turnouts you will be using.
I've also got a few Peco turnouts. I started using them because they were the only small-radius curved turnouts available. I discovered, however, that I really like the turnouts. They are more solidly built than Atlas. Also, the switch machine designed for the Peco mounts on the underside of the turnout, so it doesn't appear on top of your layout at all. After I had most of my Atlas turnouts down, I realized that I hated those switch machines. I've been making "scenic covers" for most of them, but lately I've switched to all-Peco.
Since you have very few turnouts, and you're reasonably new at this, I would go with Pecos. They are more expensive, by quite a bit actually, but if you get the Peco turnouts and the switch machines that go with them, you'll have what you need for very reliable remote operation.
Peco switch machines, by the way, need more of a "kick" from your power supply than others. I installed a capacitive discharge (CD) circuit to drive them.
Hopefully, someone else will comment on Tortoise "slow motion" switch machines. These are the most prototypical. They, too, are pricey, but those who use them love them. I don't have them, myself, so I really can't comment any more about them.
Finally, I second the suggestion that you go with DCC. The MTH HO scale engines will run on either DCS or DCC, but any DCC engines you might pick up will not run on DCS. DCS is a proprietary protocol, so other manufacturers can't use it. DCC, on the other hand, is an open protocol that anyone can use. The standards are defined by the NMRA.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Code 100 and Peco turnouts are a module club standard that we can not deviate from. Peco turnouts are almost bullet proof. Out of hundreds on our modular layout there has only been 1 turnout failure and that was due to an accident. Pecos do not really need a switch machine to operate. They have a built in over center spring that keeps the points tight against the stock rails. Their INSULFROG turnouts are drop in for DC or DCC with no need for insulated gaps. The ELECTROFROG turnouts need insulated joiners coming out of the frog rails. They are a British standard turnout. That means the flangways are real wide for those British pizza wheel flanges. There is a real easy fix for that. A .015 x .060 styrene strip glued to the guard rail fixes it real nice.
If you go with DCS than you will be limited to locos from MTH only. With the help of the NMRA the DCC standards of compatibility between decoders and DCC systems has transformed the hobby into the digital age that just keeps getting better and cheaper for us. This is the start of you rail road empire and only you and your son can see it grow or stay the same. It has been said more than once, No layout is ever finished. You might be happy with a small figure 8 now but a few months or years from now you may be planning a basement empire with a fleet of steam or diesels that MTH may not have.
Good luck
Pete
I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!
I started with nothing and still have most of it left!
Oh my no! Not DCS! I'm not knocking DCS it's probably very good, but for reasons stated already please, please, pulease, for your sake, don't box yourself in by choosing a system that you can use with only one brand of locomotive. Especially on your first layout. DCC I'm sure will make you the most happy and you can use any brand loco including MTH.
As far as turnouts go I second the Atlas. Very reliable for years and years. I have no experience with Peco but have no doubt they are very good also from all that I've heard for so long.
Switch machines, well the above ground switches from Atlas are also very reliable and practically bullet proof and last for what seems ever (36 years and counting) and are simple to install especially if you buy them as a unit. But as Mr B says, I don't like the looks anymore since my goals have changed. Just depends on what you want. I too would recomend Caboose ground throws for the close ones. Less wiring don't ya know, however that's up to you.
Good luck and welcome to the disease, er I mean Hobby!
Todd
Central Illinoyz
In order to keep my position as Master and Supreme Ruler of the House, I don't argue with my wife.
I'm a small town boy. A product of two people from even smaller towns. I don’t talk on topic….. I just talk.
Thanks, everybody. I'll go with the Atlas switches and above ground machines. Reliable and simple, I like that.
I had a train set as a kid and have messed around with the idea of making a full fledged layout instead of the once a year around the Christmas tree, but my son is HUGE into trains. It started with Thomas toys and has moved into anything and everything train related.
I've got all the sub-roadbed cut out and pieced together to make sure it's right, now I'll be making support for the elevation changes. I left large areas of material (hardboard) uncut around places I'll need switches so I can install them. I'm putting cork on top of that and the track on the cork.
Scenery is going to wait, because there will be a change of adress for my family next spring or summer. I'll just get trains running now, make it look good later.
Thanks for the help, I'm sure I'll be asking more questions later.
In the long term, you can use code 100 now and switch to more-scale code 70 and/or 83 later. I have re-used most of my old code 100, from a prior layout, as staging track for my current code 83/70 railroad. Nothing wasted. Of course, the plastic frogs on the earlier Atlas no, 6 switches wore out, so I bought Atlas Customline (metal frogs) for the staging ladders. Time will tell whether that was a good idea, but I learned plenty about tuning turnouts from the prior railroad, so I think I'll be OK.
The layout is built modular, three sections of 5 foot by three foot four inches. Each section is bolted to common support underneath using 3/16 machine screws and nuts.
I'm not too savvy at putting up pictures, but the track plan is #29 in Kalmbachs book "101 track plans". There is a cross over at one end and a 90 degree intersection in the middle. All sub-roadbed has been cut from masonite hardboard and can be dissassembled roughly near the joints of the 5' X 3' 4" platforms. I expanded it from a 4' X8' original plan, but kept the same elevations, reducing the grades to 3.2 percent, versus 4 percent.
I'm ready to start cutting 2x4 to support the masonite on Tuesday or Wednesday. I hope to be laying cork roadbed next week, track the week after.
Again, thanks for the advice and the warm welcome to the hobby.
All my test track right now is Atlas code 100 and a custom line #6 switch. It worked just fine running throught, as long as my engine didn't get to far on the unpowered spur The only think I really didn't like was the obnoxiously extremely ugly plastic frog section. Once everythings going enough for track I will do use all Atlas but once I get down more serious I will replace the turn outs with better looking ones. I will be using Tortious switch machines, but that's mostly based on the train store, they used them on their display shelf. As for appearance I wouldn't worry. One of the proprieters told me straight up once everythings painted, weathered, and ballasted it's the different rail looks very similar. There is only .017" different between code 100 and code 83. Just to give you an idea 1/64 of an inch is .0156". I think that's somewheres around the height of the lines on note book paper. I may still keep with my idea of having all handlaid track using Fast Tracks, and even then I think I will still use code 100. code 83 would be a prototypical 132# rail IIRC (I finally figured out what that acronym stood for today) so if you are being proto-anal it would be too big, but otherwise no worries.