I have a passenger station along one side of a two track Santa Fe main line. The west bound track is next to the platform. The east bound track is next to that with an industrial switching lead next to that. NO room to move the industrial switching lead as it's at the edge of the table.
My problem..... How do I load passengers on the east bound main? Would a railroad pave over the west bound main and have passengers walk over the track, or switch the east bound train to the west bound main next to the platform using crossovers?
Either way will halt all west bound traffic.
Another reason why the railroads were so eager to dump passenger service.
On my layout, I opted for plank walkways to the far track, although the line is only single track, with passing sidings at each station. Traffic is light, and the railroad is "dark", but with only one "engineer", and most passengers "stuck" on the platform, there have been no mishaps.
For your situation, since either option will stop westbounds, I'd think that a real railroad would opt for the cheapest solution, which would be the walkways. They'd need to signal the block where the station is located anyway, but crossovers are a lot more expensive than the walkways. On the other hand, most doubletracked lines have crossovers to allow faster trains to pass slow ones, so perhaps crossovers would be more useful.
The CN line through my town was double tracked, with walkways for the far track and crossovers for expediting trains, but, with the installation of CTC, the second track was replaced by long passing sidings. Here's a picture, with two mains, and a siding in the foreground, from the '80s:
Wayne
Raised on the Erie Lackawanna Mainline- Supt. of the Black River Transfer & Terminal R.R.
Welcome to the forum, my friend!
Most likely the railroad is going to
. . . . . . . . . . switch the east bound train to the west bound main next to the platform . . . . . . . . . .
You stumbled inexorably into the truth!
From the far, far reaches of the wild, wild west I am: rtpoteet
I used to live next to the B&M line by the depot in Concord, MA. The depot was on the westbound side, and the whole loading area was asphalt, as I recall. When an eastbound train was loading on the far track, westbound trains were held outside the station until the eastbound left. If I recall correctly, they did this both ways, so there was never more than one train in the station, regardless of which track it was on.
At the time, this was mostly a commuter rail line anyway, with most freight activity happening at night when the passenger service was infrequent. Now, there is no longer any freight on that line, to my knowledge.
This whole arrangement was a major headache for car traffic, because there was a grade crossing on either side of the depot. Trains in the station were close enough to trigger the gates, so the autos had to wait not only for the train to pass, but also for the boarding process.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Capt. GrimekWhat a beautiful "Witches' Hat" depot! There's one in Wallace, Idaho that's always been a favorite and this one's a beauty too. What was your home town, Wayne? No wonder you fell in love with trains if that depot was in your childhood home.
Thanks, Jim. The station shown, unfortunately, burned down some years ago. It was both a station and restaurant at that time and also as seen in the picture above. Here's a picture from the mid-'70s, when it was still only a station:
The loco, CNR 6060, is pictured on a regularly scheduled train, and ran Wednesdays and Saturdays, replacing the usual RDCs. For some strange reason , it always attracted a crowd.
The town, Grimsby Ontario, is served by both VIA and Amtrak, and, hopefully soon, also by GO Transit. It's not my hometown, though - I grew up in nearby Hamilton, with the station pictured below about 2 blocks down our street:
The elevated right-of-way was right across the street from our house, and I did my first "railfanning" from our front porch: TH&B, CPR, and NYC, both steam and diesel.
12/1956 My problem..... How do I load passengers on the east bound main? Would a railroad pave over the west bound main and have passengers walk over the track, or switch the east bound train to the west bound main next to the platform using crossovers? Either way will halt all west bound traffic.
The railroad wouldn't put the industrial lead right next to the eastbound main in the first place. They would leave enough room to put a passenger platform on the outside of the eastbound track or would relocate the station to a place where they had room.
Since you don't have the option to do it the way the prototype would, I would go with paving over both main lines , either for the length of the platform or for smaller sections 20 feet wide or so, spaced a car length apart so they can stop the train over the unloading pads. The alternative is to stop the train at a road crossing if its at the end of the platform. In rural areas Amtrak often uses a road crossing as the "platform".
If you just have a couple passenger trains a day, no two opposing passenger trains will be at the station at the same time, you aren't using current of traffic operation, and you have crossovers that facilitate the move, you can cross the "wrong" trains over to the main next to the station. That is also done on the prototype.
Regarding stopping the opposing trains, the prototype has to do that so its no big deal. All rule books prohibit operating a train on track between a passenger train making a station stop and the passenger plaftorm, some rule books prohibit a train from apssing a train while it is recieving or discharging passengers (regardless of where the station is), that is very common in commuter areas. You think that stopping a train on the opposing track is bad, you should see what crossing over the trains will do. You will have to stop the oppising train before it passes the last crossover and before the passenger train gets to the first crossover. Techinically the opposing train will have to stop when the passenger trains is about 2 or 3 signals before it gets to the first crossover or else it will give the passenger trains less favorable signals and delay the passenger train. So not crossing over the passenger train and stopping the fright train on the other track will be waaaaaaay less delay and impact to the freight than crossing over the passenger train.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
Thanks guys and or gals.
Since other trains are not allowed to pass a passenger train stopped to load/unload it would seem that paving over at least part of the west bound main is what I should be doing.
I have been into garden railroading for the last 12 years or so back in the twin cities of Minneapolis/St. Paul. After I retired to the Black Hills of SD in 06 I decided to get back into HO after a 25 yr absents.
My layout room has about 180 sq. ft. and is an awkward shape. I am doing an urban big city theme so real estate is expensive downtown. Moving my station would have required a tight "S" curve so I placed the industrial switching lead next to the east main track (selective compression??????).
The Santa Fe is basically just a feeder for my primary interest, a transfer railroad like the Minnesota Transfer in the twin cities of Minneapolis/St. Paul. My transfer RR picks cars up from and drops cars off for the Santa Fe at a small interchange yard.
Switching in and around a large city requires tight curves and slow operation. This takes time and should cause my layout to seem much larger than its actual size.
I have devoted 2/3 of my space to just one city with a branch line to a small town off in a corner. The branch gives me a bit of rural scenery and a break from large buildings.
The Santa Fe is a continues run big time RR around the room while the transfer RR is a gritty point to point slow pace line. This gives me the best of both concepts.
The New London, CT station on the New Haven Railroad Shore Line was double tracked from New Haven to Boston, with many long sidings making it a four track ROW in many place. Going through New London it was double tracked. The huge station, built by the CV in prosperous times, was close to the Southbound track (West in New Haven parlance) and it was on the west side of the track. Planking filled the rails and a boarding platform long enough to accomodate at least a 10 car train up to north bound track.
Whenever a south bound train was in the station, the northbound train had to wait out in Fort Yard and wait for the southbound to pass it before proceeding into the station. And Vice Versa.
The same situation existed at Old Sabrook.
In the late forties I was a student at the UConn veteran's branch at Ft. Trumbull, about a mile and half south of the station. One late night on a return trip from New Haven we were stopped per the rule. Being late, and a lot closer to the campus than the station, I opened the door flipped up the platform and stepped down the steps. I leaped before I looked and ended up standing on the southbound track with the glaring headlight of an I-5 Hudson (Shoreliner) bearing down on me at full blast. I made a giant leap that saved my life. I never did that again.
Mr. Big Rusty,
Jumping from a passenger train in a yard, NOT a good idea.
My brother and I caught rides on slow moving freight trains when we were young teens....... another NOT TOO SMART thing to do. I hope people are not so cavalier about doing such stupid things these days. Railroads are very dangerous places to take chances, Ever since 9/11 just setting foot on railroad property could get you arrested. Jumping off a passenger train or hopping freights could get you DEAD.
The same goes for railfanning. Be careful out there, and don't trespass on RR property.
Rusty;
Ont station that has always "grabbed" me was the Bridgeport station. Wasn't the track laid down on an all-wood structure, with wood between the rails? Walking between tracks, both the prospect of a EF-4, etc, bearing down on you at 35MPH (remembering the Jenkins Curve incident), or even with 11,000VAC@25 cycles dangling above your head might dictate you to be really careful...
By the way; I do a lot of service work in Fairfield and Westchester Counties, and as such, still get a lot of really neat views of existing equipment, some from one hundred years ago! Going across the viaduct on 95 by State Street; didn't there used to be a location called "Burr Road" around there?
At Marcus Hook, PA the Pennsylvania RR paved over an industrial lead (5 Track) to create the southbound platform for a busy suburban station. 5 Track ran south about a mile to reach the steel mill at Claymont DE. In the Conrail era, they would often make the move through the station during the afternoon commuter rush, but they would contact the operator at HOOK tower to get a shot through the station when there weren't any southbound locals approaching. Running through the station on 5 Track with a local on 4 Track was a good way to get in a lot of trouble.
I just looked at the area on Google satellite view and 5 Track is gone now but the four main tracks are still there. I guess Norfolk Southern is working the steel mill from the Claymont end now.
This looks like my best option. If I pave over my industrial lead and build walkways across the two main tracks this will solve my problem. Also, I will be able to include a small waiting shelter on the far side of the industrial lead in a little niche next to "Heatum Brothers Fuel". While this location is not directly across from the station it's close enough. (Wathers Big City Station)
I want to thank everyone who offered suggestions........ Thank You.
ef3 yellowjacket Rusty; Ont station that has always "grabbed" me was the Bridgeport station. Wasn't the track laid down on an all-wood structure, with wood between the rails? Walking between tracks, both the prospect of a EF-4, etc, bearing down on you at 35MPH (remembering the Jenkins Curve incident), or even with 11,000VAC@25 cycles dangling above your head might dictate you to be really careful... By the way; I do a lot of service work in Fairfield and Westchester Counties, and as such, still get a lot of really neat views of existing equipment, some from one hundred years ago! Going across the viaduct on 95 by State Street; didn't there used to be a location called "Burr Road" around there?
At Bridgeport, I believe that there was Hairpin fencing that isolated tracks and 1 and 2 from passenger's foot traffic. There were probably gates for baggage carts as well. This was also the case in New Haven and most of the other stations from New Haven to New Rochelle.
There was a Signal Tower at Burr Road. Pix on the Library of Congress site.
If you are ever in Rye, I would love some pictures of the tower there, I believe that it is still standing. I have tried to find it on google but haven't been able to. I don't know if it was around the curve toward Harrison or on the east end past the Post Road. I lived in Rye until 1941 so am quite familiar with the area.
If you enlarge this picture to the highest resolution you just make out the fencing between the tracks at the Bridgeport Station
http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/ct/ct0300/ct0338/photos/024075pv.jpg
IIRC, the tracks of a rather busy junction passed right through the low-level platform of the N&W station at Roanoke, VA.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)