If you really want benchwork sections that can be easily moved, and money is not an issue (or not much of one), you might consider commercial modular benchwork such as Sievers.
Connecticut Valley Railroad A Branch of the New York, New Haven, and Hartford
"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right." -- Henry Ford
"Sections" are segments of layout. They don't follow any prescribed interface at the ends, so they only go together in one way or must be reworked to fit into a substantially different space.
"Modules" are sections built to interface specifications that allow them to be put together in differnet ways with other modules following the same interface specification.
All modules are sections, not all sections are modules. Folks misuse the terms quite often.
Layout Design GalleryLayout Design Special Interest Group
Isn't this basically a "modular" style layout (like free-mo or n-trak)?
Co-owner of the proposed CT River Valley RR (HO scale) http://home.comcast.net/~docinct/CTRiverValleyRR/
Thanks to everyone who shared their ideas on building my benchwork. I decided to build four butt-joint tables and one L-girder. (Hope I am not sorry) Any way the the tables are complete and now I need to work on a track design for an around the room layout. I have several ideas in mind and will be picking everyone's brain as I get started.
Thanks again for everyone's help.
MC
Don Mitchell had some good articles on layout design in Model Railroader in the 1970s. IIRC, in one article he (may have cited the wrong author with faulty memory) described a 5x8 that was broken into 30" x 8ft sections that could be connected together in an L or rectangle (an early conceptual cousin to the recent Beer Line project). The article had photos of an actually built benchwork in this configuration, so it wasn't just theory.
He used L girder framework for these sections, and used 1x3s instead of 1x4s for the L girder web. The article said that those sections barely got through some of the halls and stairwells when moving time came - sometimes less than 2" clearance. That article said to me that the 30" x 8ft x 12" section was the max practical for moving, and that a narrower and/or thinner 8ft section would be easier.
My L-girder 4x8 had few difficulties moving (DIY with rental truck in those cases), but had to be cut down to 4x6 after the 2nd move because the spare bedroom didn't have enough aisle space to get around a 4x8. The L-girder did make it easy to change the layout configuration. The 4x6 was heaven to move, even with commercial movers, because it could be stood on end.
OTOH, my butted grid 4x8 had all kinds of problems moving (commercial moves). In some military moves, where everything is crated instead of packed in a van, the crates normally have an outside dimension of 8 x 8 x 8ft (they are made of standard plywood and 2x4s). Which means the inside dimension was 95". Which meant the layout had to be packed in a crate on at least one diagonal. Which meant difficulty in packing around the layout and lack of support for the layout in the crate. This was in addition to difficulty in maneuvering the beast through the houses.
The sum of my experience and the article says that any inches you can take off a 96" dimension is helpful when moving. Less than 80" is even better because of the door ways. Be that as it may, a less than 30" wide 8ft liftout section should be reasonably movable. The thickness difference between L girder and butted grid won't hurt if the section width is less than 30" (standard bedroom doorway). The key seems to be to keep at least 2 of the dimensions easily fitting through a doorway. And realize that any dimension over 8ft could be tough to manuever.
my thoughts, your choices
Fred W
Try to track down that 1995 Model Railroad Planning article. Jim K seemed to feel that L girder as a support for open grid would work -- you move the open grid, and do what you can with the L girder to reconstruct it on the new site. He definitely is a fan of L girder and I wouldn't read his comments as being a reason not to use it. His point was only that when the layout and the L girder are integral that unless they are constructed to move, don't move well.
Dave Nelson
Thanks for the info guys. I keep going back and forth on what to build. I had decided on L-girder until I read Dave's posting, I don't want that to happen. Fred, I agree that when and if I move it may not make a differance since the area will never be exactly the same as I have now. I am afraid that if I build the L-girder in an 8' section it may be a bear to move. I also need to have a lift out section attached to benchword, so my thinking is the open grid would support that better than the L-girder would. Any suggestions?
C & O SteamI am building an around the room layout in a 11' x 11' room.I have completed 2--5' x 30" tables and 1-5'x24" in a Butt-joint (open grid) and am trying to deciding what I should use for the other two tables I need. One will be a 8' x 35" and the other one will be 52" x 30". I have a door way that I need to bridge and was considering a lift out or duck under. I am leaning toward making the other tables L-girder in hopes it will be easier to add the lift out with out having the square corners. I am wondering if there will be a problem in moving the L-girder if I every move. Seems to me that the butt-joint would be a lot easier to move should the need arise. Your advice and ideas would be greatly appreciated.
I am building an around the room layout in a 11' x 11' room.I have completed 2--5' x 30" tables and 1-5'x24" in a Butt-joint (open grid) and am trying to deciding what I should use for the other two tables I need. One will be a 8' x 35" and the other one will be 52" x 30". I have a door way that I need to bridge and was considering a lift out or duck under. I am leaning toward making the other tables L-girder in hopes it will be easier to add the lift out with out having the square corners. I am wondering if there will be a problem in moving the L-girder if I every move. Seems to me that the butt-joint would be a lot easier to move should the need arise.
Your advice and ideas would be greatly appreciated.
I would use whatever method best suits your current desires and needs, and not worry about moving.
Layout don't move well, period (IMHO). I have moved layouts in 9 of my 14 moves as an elite level member of Uncle Sam's Frequent Relocation Club. In those 9 moves, not one of them used exactly the same track plan, scenery, structures, and modeled scenes as the previous house - even though some of the moves were only 1 year apart. Each new house (new to me) had at least a few differences in the space available and its configuration within the "train" room, which led to new opportunities and thoughts about the direction I was taking the layout. Invariably, I ended up with significant changes in the layouts when I moved - sometimes for no better reason than to change the location of spurs due to changes in industries or structures located on the spur. But more often than not, I ended up with a totally new track plan and/or layout because of the change in space and room configuration.
There are some model railroaders who get enough exactly right the 1st time that they don't need or want to make significant changes when they move. I do not fall into this group. If by chance you do, then you might want to consider future moves as part of your construction. OTOH, if you are like me, the extra time and expense in planning and construction to account for future moves ends up going to waste anyway.
just my thoughts and experiences, your choices
In the very first issue of Model Railroad Planning (1995) Jim Kelly, one-time managing editor of Model Railroader, told about moving his N scale Tehachapi Loop layout to a new house -- it was L girder -- and how it ended up being destroyed and discarded. His conclusion is that traditional L girder is not ideal for moving. He said he came to favor open grid on a base of L girder, so he could save and move the open grid part -- the real layout -- and essentially disassemble the open grid part and rebuilt it on site.
The idea of some special cross bracing makes sense but you might be creating some interfernce with the flexibility of L girder
tomikawaTTThere is little to choose between moving butt-jointed framing and L girder in the sizes you gave. If the last joists of the L girder frame are at the end of the L-girders and the subroadbed doesn't overhang it, it shouldn't be any more of a handling problem than the traditional box frame. One thing that will improve both types of framing, for greater rigidity in place and during a move, is to install a diagonal brace across the bottoms of the joists. That will prevent racking (where the rectangles in the layout try to become rhombuses) and take a lot of strain off the fasteners. The brace doesn't have to be very big. 1x2 lumber, the smallest size steel stud or even two tension cables Xed will do. Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
There is little to choose between moving butt-jointed framing and L girder in the sizes you gave. If the last joists of the L girder frame are at the end of the L-girders and the subroadbed doesn't overhang it, it shouldn't be any more of a handling problem than the traditional box frame.
One thing that will improve both types of framing, for greater rigidity in place and during a move, is to install a diagonal brace across the bottoms of the joists. That will prevent racking (where the rectangles in the layout try to become rhombuses) and take a lot of strain off the fasteners. The brace doesn't have to be very big. 1x2 lumber, the smallest size steel stud or even two tension cables Xed will do.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
The difference when it comes to moving the two types of layouts is that the L-girder is 3-4 inches "thicker" because the joists are on top of instead of inside the girders. The extra thickness can come into play if a section is more than 80" long (the height of a standard doorway). If a section is less than 80" long, it can be stood on end to go through doors, stairs, and narrow halls. Maneuvering an 8ft long section in the same places can be a little tricky, and the thicker and wider the section, the more likely that 8ft long section is going to jam in a corner or stairwell. Moving an L girder 4x8 can be really tough. As a member of Uncle Sam's Frequent Mover Club, I got to experience almost every conceivable awkward hall and door and stair combination first hand.
The best place to store and move the leg assemblies is screwed inside the L girders. That prevents loss of legs, braces, and screws, and prevents the racking Chuck talked about.
On butted grid, I found wiring needed to be run through holes drilled in the joists or on top of the joists. Then tape up any wires hanging down. Even then, invariably at least one wire would get snagged and broken in the handling. With L girder, the wiring was run on top of joists, and so was reasonably protected, especially with the legs and braces adding more cover to the layout bottom.
The ultimate moving protection is to box each section in 3/4" plywood. But that is very heavy - movers get paid by the pound - and invites rougher treatment. Also very time consuming and costly to have built prior to movers arrival. I found that when the movers could see that they were moving a somewhat delicate layout, they tended to be a little more careful with the sections.
Use cardboard sheets to slide the layout sections stood on edge on the floor.
Fascia needs to fairly sturdy - and NOTHING can protrude from the fascia. Toggle switch handles are the 1st things to get snapped off. Don't ask me how I know this.
just my experiences
Great idea Chuck. I never thought of that. Thanks.
Raised on the Erie Lackawanna Mainline- Supt. of the Black River Transfer & Terminal R.R.
My 5 by 12 foot table, steel stud 'C acts like L' girder with steel joists, was pretty loose while it was free-standing - until I installed one diagonal brace (the smallest steel stud, open side down.) After that it didn't even think about deflecting, even during the stresses of being turned 180 degrees to conform to a complete redesign. That maneuver was a one-man operation on the concrete floor of a two car garage. After it was done, I didn't find a single loose screw - and the rectangles were still rectangles.