Here's another look... I like a lot about this but I think it feels too much like a plan from a plan book and not enough like a railroad that doesn't follow the edge of the table
What I like about it: Long mainline run, good scenery possiblities.
What I'd be concerned about: Passing sidings are too small and too close together; no separate yard lead, bent tail on wye (could be straightened); only one industry siding.
I love longer trains making their way around a well-scenicked mainline. This layout has that. But I don't see a reason for the railroad to be there in the first place. All of the service facilities, yard and wye just to support one industry? Maybe the layout could use a really good interchange somewhere. Cars come on to and leave the layout through the interchange. That's a reason to have the yard: cars coming off interchange are sorted in the yard and sent back to the intechange.
This one is different from the last, but I'm not sure if it's an overall improvement. Some areas are better, some not.
I like the way you keep thinking about it. I'm in the same boat. I have a new plan worked out, but I'm letting it simmer for a while. Then I'll go back to it and see if I still like it! LOL
Darrell, quiet...for now
Just for the sake of discussion, here's something I was thinking of doing, for some reason I was thinking of calling it The Papoose Division.... Sounds like something from a wild west magazine...
If you're really interested in the Big 4, are you sure you want to build this layout now? It's pretty big to eventually write it off as a learning experience!
Would it be possible to design a layout that you can build now that would incorporate some of the Big 4 features that you eventually want? If you have an overall master plan in mind, you could begin building that Big 4 Dream Layout in sections, adding to it as your time, space and finances allow.
Just a thought.
When I was reviewing one of your earlier plans, I considered trying to get the yard closer to the front. What I ended up with didn't look anything at all like what you had! LOL It would be interesting to see the yard closer to the front of the layout with nice long mainlines behind it.
So the outer main crosses over the inner main? I had that backwards. Starting an upwards grade in the upper left corner coming out of the yard area, you should be able to gain at least 2" in height at around a 2% grade. Coming back down, if you can extend the grade past the yard lead on the right, you may be able to get less than a 2% grade. Those grades are consistant with many layout designs. You may experience a slight loss of pulling power on grades that steep, but it is doable.
And yes, I've really enjoyed participating in your designs.
Darrell, quiet....for now
I'm sure you've noticed by now, as much ground as we've covered on this plan- the outer main line crosses over the inner and (I'm not sure the percentage but we'll call it 7.5 which I believe is a bit on the high side of an estimate) connects to the inner line... It is a folded figure 8 and I think I'm pretty ingenious until I consider a meeting where there's no train length passing siding
The northeast corner is going to be a seedy looking warehouse district around the tracks aand the open area will be Crosstracks (tentative name) for the company shanty town where the hardworking employees of the PB&J live I told you that this whole railroad is the product of imagination from writing a set of children's stories...
Equipment inventory is happening today and garage setup probably tonight or tomorrow depending on when I get to clean the barn and arrange the tables...
it has been a lot of fun trading ideas with you on this, and I'm not sure that this is my final plan I am still considering bringing the yard down toward the control pit and the loops up the other way...
Another project I've been working at is my dream layout... I know exactly what I want, but don't have the room or the resources at this time... I live in Springfield Ohio, there use to be a major big 4 presence here I have through painstaking hours spent at the Heritage center created a track map and I'd like to model (loosely) all of the operations here circa 1905-1920... It would of course be the work of a lifetime...
Yup, I'm liking this one, too!
I like the yard on the left and roundhouse on the right. Seems more balanced that way. Your A/D tracks and yard look like they will work well.
I'm not too sure about the shorter yard lead. I like the area northeast of the roundhouse. Is that like warehousing or another part of the yard facilities? Does the inner mainline still rise up and over the outer mainline? What's the grade on that?
I like the progress you've made. Wish I could say the same for myself! I've been back at the drawing board (RTS) and working on another plan. My original plan didn't allow enough space for the size roundhouse I wanted. I think I'll start a new thread soon and see what everyone thinks.
When does construction start?
Here's a step back in the other direction, I like this yard the best of any I've done, but the plan looks busier every time I look at it...
I borrowed a bit from you as well... Though I'm toying with a rather unconventional yard idea that I saw in a track plan book that basically puts the yard off a corner but I'm still learning the software enough to build it in Right Track...
Looks a little crowded on the left side, but then again, I didn't like how the back of the roundhouse faced the yard in the earlier version.
Still like the looks of the mainlines!
Here's another take on the yard
back to the drawing board
I like your newest version! Two main lines, some sidings, good sized yard.
I'm still concerned about how the yard would work. The engine of a train entering the A/D track (second track from the top) from either the left or the right can't get to the roundhouse without crossing over the yard lead. It's worse with a train on the inner mainline, since it shares the A/D track as part of the main. The engines will have a hard time getting to the service facilities regardless.
I don't see a good solution for that. More turnouts and crossovers will only reduce the size of the A/D track. Flipping the yard to put the yard lead on the left with the roundhouse still on the right might work but it will limit the length of the yard lead. It looks like the outer main will have to rise up to cross over the inner main on the left side of the layout, so the length of the yard lead is limited by the loop in the inner main.
But overall, I like this plan better than your first and better than the plan I modified for you. If you can resolve the operational problems between the yard and roundhouse leads, I think you'll have a great layout! Nice room for scenery, a little online switching, good sized yard to play in whil trains run on the mains.
Yup, it's looking good!
I have also been kicking this idea around and decided to combine elements of this and a prior version of the pbj I did for a 4x8 while searching for THE plan... I'm not quite done but I think I am moving in a better direction for me...
I need to finish the service and aux tracks but I think this yard with aa longer lead will be better for me also... But I am also considering a third option that brings the yard down toward the control pit... I am NOT I repeat NOTall that interested in a switching layout, though I do want to learn, to as the youngsters say, bring up my A game... But for my own personal enjoyment I'll start the trains and let them run and doing my level best to dress the set as eye candy... afterall I'd like to eventually be able to use photos of my layout in my books...
Hi, J. Walt.
I've been following this thread (looking for ideas to steal for my own layout plan in "Great Dream Layout Quest" thread! LOL)
I re-created your layout last night and started playing with it. Made some major revisions last night and today, so I thought I'd post them for you to see. Here's what I came up with:
My two main areas of concern were the lower left loop and the yard. One goal was to use 11"-19" radius curves as much as possible. The lower left loop is a little bigger than the one you had but it uses larger radius curves. Maybe that will work for you.
I flipped the yard completely. I think it will operate better this way. A train arriving from the left pulls into the A/D track, the engine cuts off and goes straight to engine servicing. A switcher, using the extended yard lead, pulls cars off the A/D and sorts them in the yards tracks. Switcher assembles new train, engine backs in from roundhouse, hooks up and pulls out to the right.
A train coming in from the right pulls into the A/D track, the engine cuts off and pulls into the stub pocket on the left side. The switcher pulls the cars off the A/D track and allows the engine to run down the A/D to engine service. Before making up a new train, the road engine pulls out of the engine service area and parks in the stub pocket. The switcher now assembles a new train on the A/D track. The road engine backs up to the newly assembled train and pulls out of the A/D track to the left.
Mix those instructions up and you can have a train pull in from the left and have a new train assembled and leave to the left or vice-versa!
I'm no expert when it comes to track planning. I've gotten so much help from forum members on my own plans, I want to return or pass along that help when and if I can.
Please use my suggestions or not as you see fit. I enjoyed playing with your layout and if it helps you, more's the better! If you don't use my suggestions, I promise not to be offended!!! LOL
Keep us informed of your progress!
The long siding on the top could serve as the A/D track of the yard, so that any trains going out onto the main would be made up there. The trains wouldn't necessarily need to move from the body tracks directly to the main. The problem is that the yard lead and ladder plugs into that track in the middle, which would make making/breaking difficult for the switcher.
I think it would be better to have the yard lead go off of the track leading to the service area on the right, and have the ladder built off of that as well. Basically, the yard lead has access to the entire length of the A/D track as well as the body tracks, and the ladder would end up going from upper-right to lower-left instead of the way it is now. You may need a curved turnout to pull it off.
And I agree with mcfunkeymonkey, watch your reach distances to the back of the layout, if there is no aisle back there.
How do you propose to get a train out to the main from the yard?
Dante
glad you got rid of the little sidings on the left
still looks rather busy (especially given yr druthers about running rather than switching).
keep it simple! (sez the dude with Compulsive Tracklaying Disorder)
there's also the question of reach: that's a good 30 inches over Penneburg to the back of the yard.quite a stretch!
some ideas:http://www.trains.com/mrr/default.aspx?c=a&id=1504http://www.trains.com/mrr/default.aspx?c=a&id=1465http://www.trains.com/mrr/default.aspx?c=a&id=1183
that last one's in HO, so scaling down the space a wee bit, then eliminating some track, might do the trick for you in N.
if you start the branch to Penneburg (do they make pasta?) at the top right behind the roundhouse, you could lower it and it could pop out below the yard: that way Penneburg could be a separate scene at a lower level.wouldn't have to be totally under the yard: you could stagger it a bit forward, but that would create a separate space & give you a wee bit more reach for the yard above.
just some thoughts--mark
M.C. Fujiwara
My YouTube Channel (How-to's, Layout progress videos)
Silicon Valley Free-moN
two things:
In Penneburg, move the one switch for the passing siding that's in the middle of the two indsutrial areas one straight section from in front of the other industry, to allow room for an engine.
In Briarwood, if it will provide some less tight radius, the inner track does not have to be paralell to the outer track.
Just my two cents.
Sawyer Berry
Clemson University c/o 2018
Building a protolanced industrial park layout
Hmmm... I look at it one way and I like it, I look at it again and it looks busy... I'll keep after it, but I'm getting into a lot of 9 3/4 radii, which is why I scaled up the other plan... but I'll keep fooling with it...
I also added a passing siding in Penneburg to make switching easier. it needs some work, this is jsut a rough rendition in paint.
it's the latest version, downloaded it about a week ago..
The two little spurs can go, save that I thought it looked cool on the plan I borrowed it from, though my plan has broader curves, and the terrain won't appear as treacherous and the affect of narrow curved sidings won't be as eye catching ... so a log camp and coal mine would fit well in the s curve...
The ayard looks better. Now, in Briarwood, what purpose do those two little sidings serve? You could cuyt those and pull one lead spur off the mainline and create a logging camp or something like that (isn't that waht you said would be in Briarwood, or is there soemthign else?)
EDIT: what RTS version is this? I have RTS 8.0, might be able to jsut download your plan and get to work, lol. I ahve an idea for that log camp and mine area.
EDIT 2: I went ahead and drew up a rough copy of what I was thinking about in RTS. Also, the Mountain would help give some scenic seperation to the layout:
y'know I had that site bookmarked already and didn't remember it... anyhow lesson learned (I think,) here's what I came up with...
I'm sure there are areas to improve, I am open to suggestion...
I'm not too sure about how the yard will work. It sounds like you favor running trains as opposed to switching. Even so, you may want to give some thought to how trains are going to be made and broken in the yard, and if there will be a train running on the main while that work is going on. Unless I'm missing something, the only way for a switcher to pull a long cut of cars from the body tracks is to go out onto the main, which may cause traffic problems (aka. fouling the main).
If you haven't already read it, the following website is a good read to help with yard design:
http://www.housatonicrr.com/yard_des.html
Note that every yard is different and no one set of rules applies to all situations, but the information found there is a good set of basics.
Hey... That lead is way short even for the stuff I like to do so, I went on with adding both a passing siding, and creating an interchange (I think)... Here's what I did, also adding a stub branch to the coalfield, and the logging operation... I'm not yet savvy enough with the software to show it, but the left side will be mountainous, this gives me a couple of challenges to work out with the back stretch, though I think I have that one worked out- start raising the level of the back stretch down near the end of the yard...
I've got some work to do,but I think this is coming along...
yr yard lead (top left) seems a bit short given the length of the yard
if you like long trains going places, have you thought of an interchange?
here's a link to a photo album showing what a dude did in similar space:
http://www.trainboard.com/grapevine/album.php?albumid=558
Darrell,
Thank you for the reply, here's my thoughts, in sorted short order:
1. Yes, I agree the back stretch is asking for a passing siding, my yard there is also asking for another escape route for outbound traffic, pers that ast ne of track is destined for connection at both ends, though I'm still deliberating on making that back strech out of sight return- though I think that ruins some possibility...
2. those short sidings are (tentatively) drop off's for log cars or coal hoppers, though I have not worked all of the actual construction out yet... see this idea comes from a children's book I'm writing and I have the places all worked out for the story but construction is a different thing...
A stub branch off the main leading out to the hills would be perfect, it would give me a place to put the logging and coal operations... Both static scenes where no switching wwill happen... I like to watch the train's run, but I'm not an operations person, I work in operations and frankly 10-12 per day is aall I can take...
I've been collecting trains of several scales for years and it is finally time...
N scale, 5'x10' continuous-run dogbone with classification yard and roundhouse. So what's not to like!!!
What are your goals (givens & druthers) for this layout? For learning switching, you only have half the equation: once trains are classified and made up in the yard, they're sent out on the mainline to deliver and pick up cars. You have the yard, but nowhere for the trains to deliver. Granted, there's not much space to put in sidings along the mainline. Can you squeeze some more space from the powers-that-be?
That long stretch across the top is crying out for a long passing siding. Is there enough room to add that? When you're running trains on the main, you can have two running in opposite directions and meet at the passing siding.
Left side loop: what are the two short sidings for? They don't seem to serve a purpose. Could you make those two sidings into one long siding (double-track the loop)? Then you could have industrial sidings off the inner loop for your trains to deliver to. You might also be able to squeeze a stub siding off the passing siding along the top (if you add that siding, that is!).
Be wary of sweeping curves. They are supposed to make the track look more realistic but often create problems with longer equipment.
Now that I've suggested adding lots more track, I feel bound to caution you not to add so much that the layout becomes "spaghetti-like" in appearance. Sometimes it's a fine line between a realistic working track plan and a toy train layout. I've done both!! LOL
Hope my comments help. I'm in the same process and I'm getting lots of help from other forum members, not only here but on other forums to which I've posted.
Keep us posted with your progress.
OK... So I've been working on a plan for N scale that will allow me to use what I have on hand. The benchwork will be simple I'm bolting three folding tables together with layered 1 and 2 inch foam laminated to the tops. Of course I'll be laying out the grid lines on the foam, laying the track out on the foam, tracing around the track and then removing the track to lay roadbed on the outline and then laying track on the roadbed it might be a long way around, but I get it right every time I do it, knock on wood...
I have tond s of books on MR and borrowed elements of plans I liked to come up with this, but the ones with great yards don't have loopsgreat loops don''t have any yards for storage let along switching (which isn't really my thing), I do love the look of the yard and I need a place to put all the rolling stock I seem to have aquired over the years... and I want to learn switching and I won't be able to if I don't have a yard to switch in.
Anyhow I will appreciate thoughts and suggestions..