Many months ago I ran across the website of a guy who used electrical conduit as legs for his hollow core door sectional layout. There were a number of excellent photos, etc. I thought I had saved a link to the site, but I'll be durned if I can find it. Is anyone else familiar with this site, or with this practice?
I'm not talking about using conduit as extensions for regular folding table legs. He had formed the conduit into a "U" and attached it to the table so the legs could be folded up for transportation or storage.
Help, anyone? Thanks!
Sorry but putting electrical conduit on a hollow core door for legs is like putting a $75 pad lock on your tool shed when all you have in it is a $5.00 shovel. Just a wee bit of over kill. I for one am not a fan of hollow core doors for layout construction but that just my opinion. I can't see how you would mount any type pf folding or portable leg to something as flimsey as a hollow core door. If your looking for light weight and portability check into what soem of the modular clubs use. I recently saw a modular club that used 1x4 pine for bench work construction and extruded foam for a layout surface. Light weight and strong a good combination.
Thanks for the response, Al, but I'm afraid the ratio of your simile is way off. The hollow core doors cost about $18. A 10-foot piece of 3/4" conduit, which is long enough for two legs if used in the manner I described, runs about $6.
I've built plenty of benchwork and tables using dimensional pine over the last 20 years. Finding decent lumber gets more difficult all the time, splitting is often a problem when you're using 1x (even if you drill pilot holes), and there's always the threat of warpage. After spending dozens of hours researching (and three hours today at the lumberyard comparing materials, including steel studs) I'm convinced HCD is the way to go for what I want to accomplish.
Plus $30 for a good bender, plus two male connectors at under a buck, plus two 3/4" pipe flanges, plus 8 screws. Of course the bender will last through a heck of a lot of legs. Probably a lifetime for a name brand.
Plus another piece of conduit when you misbend the first one (and you will). Bending conduit is a science and takes some practice. Pay attention to the "take up " specification for the bender.
Still, this sounds like an interesting idea. Good luck.
The mind is like a parachute. It works better when it's open. www.stremy.net
larak Plus $30 for a good bender, plus two male connectors at under a buck, plus two 3/4" pipe flanges, plus 8 screws. Of course the bender will last through a heck of a lot of legs. Probably a lifetime for a name brand. Plus another piece of conduit when you misbend the first one (and you will). Bending conduit is a science and takes some practice. Pay attention to the "take up " specification for the bender.
This is a family project. The only reason I'm even considering the conduit is that my brother is an electrician and has been bending conduit for 30 years.
JTGlarak Plus $30 for a good bender, plus two male connectors at under a buck, plus two 3/4" pipe flanges, plus 8 screws. Of course the bender will last through a heck of a lot of legs. Probably a lifetime for a name brand. Plus another piece of conduit when you misbend the first one (and you will). Bending conduit is a science and takes some practice. Pay attention to the "take up " specification for the bender. This is a family project. The only reason I'm even considering the conduit is that my brother is an electrician and has been bending conduit for 30 years.
No fare that's' cheating......lol I think you misunderstood my analogy. What I meant was that the hollow core door wasn't didn't need anything as strong as a piece of conduit for legs. I will still stand by my original thoughts that the hollow core door will not be strong enough to support the conduit legs. Have you ever tried to screw a coat hook into a hollow core door? After a short time they always seem to pull out. If your looking to go portable why not mount your hollow core door onto a plastic folding table? The table will take the stress of the legs and it will have enough glue or screw surface to make a good bond. It's one of the interesting things to see at most large train shows what methods the modular clubs use. Some of those guys are pretty creative.
Allegheny2-6-6-6 JTG larak Plus $30 for a good bender, plus two male connectors at under a buck, plus two 3/4" pipe flanges, plus 8 screws. Of course the bender will last through a heck of a lot of legs. Probably a lifetime for a name brand. Plus another piece of conduit when you misbend the first one (and you will). Bending conduit is a science and takes some practice. Pay attention to the "take up " specification for the bender. This is a family project. The only reason I'm even considering the conduit is that my brother is an electrician and has been bending conduit for 30 years. No fare that's' cheating......lol .... I will still stand by my original thoughts that the hollow core door will not be strong enough to support the conduit legs.
JTG larak Plus $30 for a good bender, plus two male connectors at under a buck, plus two 3/4" pipe flanges, plus 8 screws. Of course the bender will last through a heck of a lot of legs. Probably a lifetime for a name brand. Plus another piece of conduit when you misbend the first one (and you will). Bending conduit is a science and takes some practice. Pay attention to the "take up " specification for the bender. This is a family project. The only reason I'm even considering the conduit is that my brother is an electrician and has been bending conduit for 30 years.
No fare that's' cheating......lol .... I will still stand by my original thoughts that the hollow core door will not be strong enough to support the conduit legs.
Yep, I guess we would have an unfair advantage in using this particular technique! But as far as the HCD being too flimsy to support the legs: I believe 1x3s or 1x4s were glued and screwed to the bottom of the door (one at each end). The conduit was then attached to these boards. The legs could swing up and lie flush to the bottom of the door for transportation/storage. When in the down position for use, the creator used some sort of brace at a 45-degree angle from the leg to the bottom of the door to hold the legs in position. This is the part I'm unclear about, and I still can't find the website that showed the example!
Our purpose here is to build a sectional layout (6-8 tables) that can be easily set up and taken down for an occasional weekend of railroading. Ideally, the layout will someday be incorporated into a larger pike when we secure a larger, permanent space.
We had a 32x40-foot layout up until a few years ago, when we lost the lease on the space. We won't build anything that elaborate again until we own the building. I hope to add an extra room or two and attached garage to my house in the next couple years, with the basement or the loft above the garage available for railroading. Until then, we want to keep our hand in so we have an excuse to get together frequently (our group typically includes 2-3 brothers and 1-2 brothers-in-law and everyone's spouses and a few kids).
Hence our desire to solve this leg issue, or come up with a better alternative for building a temporary sectional layout (that will one day become permanent). We're not opposed to other suggestions (thanks again for your opinion, Al), it's just that we've already examined a lot of different options and this course of action seems to suit us.
If it doesn't work out we'lll let you know and try something else!
I've built three large HO scale layouts on hollow core doors and would use nothing else. They don't warp, they don't expand or contract with cnanges in humidity and temperature like dimensional lumber, and they are very light weight compared to plywood. Our local Home Depot sells hollow core doors in different sizes that have no hinge or lock cutouts, and they are primed.
cacole I've built three large HO scale layouts on hollow core doors and would use nothing else. They don't warp, they don't expand or contract with cnanges in humidity and temperature like dimensional lumber, and they are very light weight compared to plywood. Our local Home Depot sells hollow core doors in different sizes that have no hinge or lock cutouts, and they are primed.
Thanks for the response. I've seen dozens of comments like yours in various threads, and that's good enough for me to give HCDs a try. Incidentally, what do you use for legs, and how do you attach them to the doors?
A number of folks use the pre-fab folding leg sets sold for making banquet-type tables, gluing some plywood pads to the door for the folding legs to be screwed into. Then some use straight pieces of conduit that slide over the ends of the legs to make the benchwork higher.
Others just build simple braced legs from 2X2 or L-girders made of ripped plywood. But if you need them to fold quickly and easily, that may be a little harder to engineer.
Layout Design GalleryLayout Design Special Interest Group
cuyama A number of folks use the pre-fab folding leg sets sold for making banquet-type tables, gluing some plywood pads to the door for the folding legs to be screwed into. Then some use straight pieces of conduit that slide over the ends of the legs to make the benchwork higher. Others just build simple braced legs from 2X2 or L-girders made of ripped plywood. But if you need them to fold quickly and easily, that may be a little harder to engineer.
I'm assuming you're talking about 1/2 or 3/4" EMT, Rigid takes a serious bender. Usually done w/ couplings and sweeps. The 1/2" is a bit weak, 3/4" would be stronger.
I would agree with the use of the "pre-fab" legs. Although you have an electrician at your disposal to perform the bends, setting up a pivot/ hinge and brace/ locking mechanism can be the problem here. If you are creative, and can fab a welded horizontal w/ pivot (pipe clamps) attached to a reinforced ply or ? then go for it. I believe the pre fab would be sturdier especially if mounted on a ply or 1x backer attached to the HC door. I would check out the cost of the prefab unit first. It may be easier to just buy those legs and save you some grief.
No matter what system you decide on, I would strongly recommend reinforcing the door bottom for the leg assembly. Even molys won't hold in the door skin. Pivot brackets may be mounted at the edge/ stile, but the locking mech is generally attached further inward.
Modeling B&O- Chessie Bob K. www.ssmrc.org
I have a HCD layout and don't have any real "legs". The layout rest on two shelving units so it's completly movable as there are quick disconnects on power wires going to the layout. I glued 8 pads of foam to the bottom of the door where it rest on the shelving units. Works for me. Jim
I'm having trouble with the picture so I'll just point to some early construction pictures on my web site at:
http://chartiers.50webs.com/progress1.htm
The HCD is 36" wide. Jim
I would look for a poster named Dave Volmer. He had an N scale layout on a door that is quite well documented on his website. I don't remember if there are one or two L's in his name. I know he displays his layout at shows so it's built to be portable.
I hope that helps.
I used to do electrical work and lately have gotten back into bending pipe, for my basement rehab (with exposed joists it looks a lot better to have a nice conduit run, than a bunch of Romex lines). Hadn't thought of using it structurally, but I don't see any reason it wouldn't work. The comments are on the money, that the biggest challenge is the hinge mounting.
The bending is really pretty simple. Two right angles and you don't need to be precise on the end of the stub lengths, just make sure you're not short, and you can cut to fit. (and get the bends in the same plane, but that's pretty easy. ) Also agree you'd want 3/4 inch EMT, 1/2 would be on the light side.
It's true, you don't really get a second chance with bending if you want it to be good - it's almost impossible to straighten out the pipe!
Anyhow, I think the mount is doable. I'm thinking a cabinet lid hinge could be found with the brace. For the hinge-pipe connection, EMT clamps might work better than a coupling.
An alternate method would be to use set-screw couplings as a slip-fit, just loosen the screw and pull the legs out. Mount the couplings to the door with a flat box cover. Let me see if I can find some links --
Blank cover
http://www.hubbellcatalog.com/raco/RACO_datasheet.asp?PN=8752-5&FAM=RacoBoxes
Two-hole strap
http://www.hubbellcatalog.com/raco/raco_datasheet.asp?PN=2093&FAM=RacoFittings&P=6461,7676,2320
Lid hinges - lots of options here
http://www.hardwaresource.com/Store_ViewCatLevel3.asp?Cat=345&gclid=CPXF_KCDgZoCFR1N5Qod6T7NFQ
Philly, thanks for not only responding but taking the time to post the links!
Why not go to Menards or other "big box store" and buy some folding table legs? I just bought two sets, on sale, for less that 30 bucks. They are sturdy, east to use and are re-uasble if and when you drecide to build another layout.
Jimmy
ROUTE ROCK!
Buy ready-made folding legs? Too easy!!