dknelson Roger Miller - no not the country singer of King of the Road and other hits, but in fact also a guitar player (and maker) -- has or had a wonderful CB&Q layout in Illinois, with scratchbuilt steam locomotives of top quality, and wonderful workmanship everywhere. He had the layout in its own building in his backyard. Anyway Roger had some turntables (all powered by hand by the way) where the turntable swung out over the aisle! That is the central bearing was very near the edge of the layout, and in essence just over half of the turntable pit was modeled on the layout per se, but it enabled him to turn locomotives and to put them into his roundhouse and service tracks. When the turntable was not in use he kept the bridge part so that it did not hang out into the aisle. It may sound goofy but it was very effective, and like everything else on his layout, expertly constructed. So maybe a turntable fits after all. There was an article about Roger's CB&Q layout in Model Railroading magazine Dec 2000/January 2001 issue. Dave Nelson
Roger Miller - no not the country singer of King of the Road and other hits, but in fact also a guitar player (and maker) -- has or had a wonderful CB&Q layout in Illinois, with scratchbuilt steam locomotives of top quality, and wonderful workmanship everywhere. He had the layout in its own building in his backyard.
Anyway Roger had some turntables (all powered by hand by the way) where the turntable swung out over the aisle! That is the central bearing was very near the edge of the layout, and in essence just over half of the turntable pit was modeled on the layout per se, but it enabled him to turn locomotives and to put them into his roundhouse and service tracks. When the turntable was not in use he kept the bridge part so that it did not hang out into the aisle. It may sound goofy but it was very effective, and like everything else on his layout, expertly constructed.
So maybe a turntable fits after all.
There was an article about Roger's CB&Q layout in Model Railroading magazine Dec 2000/January 2001 issue.
Dave Nelson
Similar thought that only works if the roundhouse and turnatble or near the edge: Buld the entire turntable on a seperate board, and hinge the top of the board to the tabletop of the main layout. When you need the turntable, simply lift the board up, and pivot out a small 2x4 or something that fits underneath the turntable board to provide bracing. When you don't need the TT anymore, pivot the board out form under, and let the TT lay roughly flat against the side of the layout, Then you can let the roundhouse occupy all of the alotted space on the layout, since you'll have engines in the RH for longer than the turntaBLE'
EDIT: Here's a mockup. (Note:Forgot to put edge around TT) Now, the wood mock is not to scale, and the turntable is in HO 1ft squares (No findable TT in N in RTS that I could see) but figuring from an engine yard if you figure the same three tracks in N in the same length, you could park the entire roster there. You could also do a roundhouse similarly, though the RH would need to overhang slightly or have the feed in tracks elongated to meet with the TUrntable when folded out. Same is true with the yard, though it's miniscule, and if needbe could be stiffened up with styrene.
-Morgan
Cheez, that's pretty nice Lee. In my first post I added a link to my other "layout" thread. But to summarize I'm dealing with a 36"x144" space in N scale. If you take a quick look at where I thought I was going, you'll see how adding a TT and related trackage might affect the layout designs.
Wow, neat layout. What size is the TT?
You don't have to use a lot of space for a turntable. One trick is to fold it back, and have the lead tracks arrive next to the roundhouse tracks instead from the front.
In this set up, the roundhouse tracks fill the space between the yard and the engine servicing tracks. I'm not sure how big your layout is, or what scale you're working in, but what you see here is an L shaped yard module that's 8' long to your left, and 4' from the corner to the right. The widest part of the table is only 2'.
At any given moment, I've got about 40 engines on the layout. This includes 8 trains in staging, 2-3 trains on the layout proper, at least one train arriving or departing the yard, around 4-6 engines on the ready track (left of the turntable) and anywhere from 12 to 20 engines in the round house tracks. Plust the switchers working the yard and the paper mill.
During an operating session with all the power swaps going on, that turntable is spinning like a top!
In addition to adding tremendously to my operating flexibility, it also makes a nice backdrop for "family portraits!"
If you must, add a little tail to the layout to make room for it. What it costs you in space it will more than make up to you in sheer coolitude.
Lee
Route of the Alpha Jets www.wmrywesternlines.net
tony22...I hadn't really considered the possibility of an "overhang" TT. I guess I'd have thought that there'd be a chance a loco could go off the end and on to the floor. I suppose a way could be devised to keep that from happening. Maybe I could think of a way to include it...
It would be as easy as installing a shallow styrene curved rail glued all along the pit edge in the exposed portion. The lip would only have to be 1/4" high. No engine I have ever seen in the model world will lift itself over a 1/4" high obstacle. Mine get stuck if I leave a plastic tie across the tracks. Styrene two ties high will do nicely.
-Crandell
The point is that there is no need to "fan" the tracks off the turntable. Building the "fan" of tracks is what takes up the 4 squares. Armstrong assumes that you will build a roundhouse with the turntable. The turntable itself would typically take up about 1/4 square. There is no need to put only one engine in one track. If you build an engine "yard" and put a tuntable on one end, you get something prototypical, functional and in the minimum space.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
Well, this has certainly generated some options. I hadn't really considered the possibility of an "overhang" TT. I guess I'd have thought that there'd be a chance a loco could go off the end and on to the floor. I suppose a way could be devised to keep that from happening. Maybe I could think of a way to include it.
Even in the case of a TT the question becomes (as pointed out) how many storage tracks off the TT would I need to have an effective way to keep enough engines on the layout? IIRC, according to John Armstrong a TT plus tracks takes up about 4 squares. In my case there's no point in the TT without the tracks; even if I swap engines on and off I think I'd like to be able to keep at least 10-12 total on the layout at any one time. So if I design an effective yard, would those 4 squares be able to hold more locos with a TT or if they were just additions to any existing yard trackage?
reklein I think the danger of running a loco off the TT, or having it simply fall off during the TT operation would be too great. At our club layout the TT was out for repairs and sho nuf somebody ran a loco into the unoccupied hole. BILL
I think the danger of running a loco off the TT, or having it simply fall off during the TT operation would be too great. At our club layout the TT was out for repairs and sho nuf somebody ran a loco into the unoccupied hole. BILL
A very legitimate point, Bill. It has been years since I saw Roger Miller's layout, but I wonder if the approach to the turntable was such that the tangent through the turntable was entire on the layout -- that is, approach track, turntable, and beyond, as a tangent, was entirely on the layout. That would at least minimize the possibilities of just running an engine onto the floor.
The fact that the turntable was powered by hand perhaps also meant that a "saving" hand was always going to be right there. Roger never mentioned a disaster.
I have just looked into this thread for the first time, and as I finished reading the OP's question, Dave's last post came immediately to mind. No on says the entire pit has to be ensconced within the framework. It may not be ideal, but if you build a shelf, canitlevered if necessary, and some other framing just to keep it from being bashed inadvertently, there is no reason to make sure it is inside the normal confines of the bench surface proper. I would think that as little as about 2/3 of the pit would have to be secured at the lip, with about 1/3 out in space, and still turn engines balanced on the bridge with safety. But, I would really want some protective material below the pit to keep it from being bashed upward during some other activity.
Is it possible to put a wye in the lower right corner of your oval,or is there an elevation change there. I guess I should have aasked if you just wanted a TT cause they're cool or do you want to turn locos and rolling stock? BILL
dehusman A turntable doesn't take up that much space. A 90 ft turntable is just over a foot square. What eats up space is the roundhouse. So lose the roundhouse. Build what amounts to a yard to store engines and then replace the ladder on the other end with the turntable or just have one or two tracks go to the turntable. If you just gotta put a roof over some of the engines, put a rectangular engine house over one or two of the tracks.
A turntable doesn't take up that much space. A 90 ft turntable is just over a foot square. What eats up space is the roundhouse. So lose the roundhouse. Build what amounts to a yard to store engines and then replace the ladder on the other end with the turntable or just have one or two tracks go to the turntable. If you just gotta put a roof over some of the engines, put a rectangular engine house over one or two of the tracks.
I totally agree with the above. The reduced need for daily maintenance on diesels as compared to steam resulted in open storage of locomotives at night becoming a lot more common in the diesel era.
Another possibility is to only keep on the layout the locos needed for an operating session. The rest are stored off the layout using Peco Loco Lifts or home-made cassettes to avoid handling issues. Simply run the locos on to or off of the lift or cassette and place on a nearby wall shelf.
If you are storing multiple locomotives in a "yard", ie;, 5-6 locomotives on 2-3 tracks, DCC will be a lot handier for moving the one you want to its train than DC blocks.
my thoughts, your choices
Fred W
I've been getting some good advice in another thread for my current layout design (it's been dormant for a while due to business travel). For reference that discussion can be found here
http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/t/150454.aspx?PageIndex=1
In my case there is a possibility of adding a turntable, but at the expense of either yard trackage, additional industries, or just more space to create a more open feel. Maybe enough to have to really consider an alternative.
The problem (like many, I suspect) is that I have a lot of motive power and would like to have a way to keep in available for use. Even a TT with 6 or more storage tracks is not enough for all of it, but at least I'd be able to have that many out on the playing field. So what alternatives are out there for ready access to motive power if you feel like a TT would eat up too much space? I wouldn't be surprised if there were some very clever solutions.
I know I could always just rotate power into and out of the layout, but that kind of takes away from the feel of things, IMO.