Hello,
I'm helping a friend design his layout. This is what we have so far...
The layout will be 5x12 feet and in HO scale. He wants plenty of mainline on the layout and only wants a small yard with a turntable. So, what does everyone think?
Cape Vincent Southern Railroad
HO scale Horseshoe Curve in 5’x10’
My YouTube
Main challenges:
1) A 5x12 feet rectangular layout is under most circumstances a pretty inefficient use of available space in the room the layout is built.
A 5x12 rectangular "island style" layout really needs 9 x 14 feet of space (to allow for minimum 2 foot wide aisle along the two long sides and to squeeze past one one of the layout).
You could build a lot more railroad in 9x14 feet and still fit in other uses of the room. Here is a link to a thread which discusses alternate layout shapes to use an 8x10 foot space: http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/p/151040
2) It doesn't look a lot like a real railroad - it has that typical toy train layout look with several alternate paths through the layout, a turntable and no feeling of the layout being a real railroad which serves some real purpose. If that is what you want, then by all means build that - but be aware that it does not look a lot like a real railroad.
3) If you move from the outer loop to the inner loop, only way to get back to the outer loop is to back out again. If you want crossovers between two loops, make sure that they come in the order outer --> inner, followed by inner --> outer as you keep moving in the same direction around the loop.
4) The "yard" looks potensially clumsy to switch - is that X across the inner loop leading to the two rightmost straight tracks:
a) a crossing (so the only way to the two rightmost straight tracks is from the outer loop) or b) a single slip (so you can get to those two rightmost tracks from either loop) or c) a double slip (so you can get from both loops to the two rightmosts straight track and from the outer loop to the inner loop).
If it is a straight crossing, those four tracks really constitutes two separate mini yards, each of two tracks, and switching the one accessible only from the outer loop will shut down traffic on both loops tracks while switching is underway.
5) That innermost loop (of the three) probably have a fairly tight radius - how tight you can go before you get derailment issues depends on what kind of engines and cars you are planning to run.
Long steam engines need bigger curves than tiny steam tank engines (I assume steam since you have a roundhouse).
Long passenger cars needs wider curves than 40 foot box cars.
I would strongly recommend getting John Armstrong's book "track planning for realistic operations" and have a quick read through - he has a lot of great advice about how to plan a model railroad track plan so it will look realistic and work well. Can be bought at e.g. Amazon or from Kalmbach (our hosts here).
Sorry if you feel I was brutal with your first plan - just go to plan 2 - most of us has had to make quite a few revisions to our plans over time - it is all part of the fun.
And welcome to the forum!
Smile, Stein
Seeing that Stein got here before I, no need to hash out the same thing again.
His advice is golden.
This space reserved for SpaceMouse's future presidential candidacy advertisements
Hi RailfanS,
welcome to the forum!
I can only second steinjr´s comments, which were really helpful to me to find my "dream layout". Just look at the various threads to this here in the forum.
The most important issue is to learn not to fill a certain space with track. You need to carefully take down (best in written form) what type of opeartion you or your friend would like to have, i.e. single track or double track, yard, spurs sidings, engine facilities etc. Thsi is a little awkward because it means making up your mind of what you would like to have. Bear in mind that we all want to have sweeping curves, big yards, lotsa track and the Rocky Mountains, so that list is important and will be revisited many times in the planning process in search for the compromise.
Second issiue is to find out where the layout will be built. This determines the actual space requirement and shape of the layout. steinjr has put it to the point - do not go only into those 4 by 8 or 5 by 8 layouts - better to look at the space available and fit the layout into it.
Third issue: There will be not only one plan - this is an iterative process that will take quite some time. Take this time and you will be rewarded by the result. Always view the plan under the aspects of your requirements, in terms of operation and space available.
Last but not least - be ready to compromise!
Building a model railroad is also an investment in terms of time and money. A careful plan is a big help - take your time!
BTW I am still working on my plan!
RailfanSI'm helping a friend design his layout. This is what we have so far...
You could do better than a rectangle with that much space available.
Also, the track plan doesn't allow for much operation. He's likely to get bored with it very quickly.
I agree with the suggestion about the Armstrong book.
Ninety percent of the time when people offer track plans for comment, I cringe, so usually don't offer comment. I don't find joy in criticizing a person's creativity.
Most of the time people would be much better off using published plans at the beginning. Yes, I know the majority of published plans have major defects, but the typical beginning model railroader will usually be better off using them. Heck, I'll repeat what I said yesterday and say that twice I constructed major revisions within several years of a plan created by layout-design-giant John Armstrong.
People need to learn from their mistakes. People need room to learn and evolve. Hopefull, advice, and if you will, criticism, won't burn out their interest in model railroading.
Frankly, I admire Stein's track planning abilities and his generosity.
Mark
... three cheers to Stein!
He is so helpful and takes so much care and time - he is a great model railroader and a good buddy, sharing his experience with us und a very modest way.
Thanks Stein!
(So why all thsi fuss about Malcolm X. Furlow in this forum?)
markpierceNinety percent of the time when people offer track plans for comment, I cringe, so usually don't offer comment. I don't find joy in criticizing a person's creativity. Most of the time people would be much better off using published plans at the beginning. Yes, I know the majority of published plans have major defects, but the typical beginning model railroader will usually be better off using them. Heck, I'll repeat what I said yesterday and say that twice I constructed major revisions within several years of a plan created by layout-design-giant John Armstrong. People need to learn from their mistakes. People need room to learn and evolve. Hopefull, advice, and if you will, criticism, won't burn out their interest in model railroading.
Very wise words, indeed. I agree 100% - I sometimes try to not offer advice, too - but my big mouth tends to run off with me
To offer some positive suggestions as well, not just point out problems with the initial design, here are a couple of island style rectangular layouts that could easily be made a little *bigger* to fit the Original Poster's footprint:
One pretty nice 4x8 rectangular design is the layout of forum poster RRtrainman - this one allows several trains to run at the same time on the outer loops while switching the industries in the center of the layout:
This one is designed to fit up against a wall on the backside (upper end) - and be pulled out when work needs to be done or to rerail cars, but not for normal operations.
The gateway (St. Louis) division of the NMRA (National Model Railroad Association) has done several nice small island style project layouts - here is one:
More can be found at http://www.gatewaynmra.org/project.htm
Scott Perry made a very cool beginner's layout in donut shape, complete will all cutting and assembly instructions:
http://home.comcast.net/~scottgperry/site/?/page/Heart_of_Georgia_Beginner%27s_Train_Layout/
Lots of interesting things that can be done with a space as big as 9 x 14 feet.
steinjr Sorry if you feel I was brutal with your first plan - just go to plan 2 - most of us has had to make quite a few revisions to our plans over time - it is all part of the fun.
First of all, don't worry about it. I've been watching similar threads and was expecting criticism. If I only wanted complements I wouldn't have asked for opinions. Second I agree with the layout having a toy like plan. I have an L-shaped layout which represents a locomotive service yard, and all the tracks have a name or general purpose. This is only after about a half hour of work too. He described to me that he wanted "a double track mainline along the outside of the layout with a short line going down the middle and connecting on both ends". This will be quite the challenge if it's even possible considering I don't think he can make the layout any larger. I'll work with him again tomorrow and we'll look at everyone's recommendations to improve the plan. Thanks again,
Jamie