There are two track planning print resources I have found useful for the CR&T, which does not require massive staging or a helix, for traction planning purposes. While I am designing a two-level layout with a helix, it is only for the Pennsylvania Railroad portion, which interchanges & surrounds the CR&T located on the lower level.
One book is from Carstens Publications, and the other is Kalmbach Publications. Each book has original publishing dates from the 1980s, before the more extensive use of helix and hidden staging.
[1] Bob Hayden's, 58 Track Planning Ideas (1981), from Kalmbach...
http://index.mrmag.com/tm.exe?opt=I&MAG=BOOK&MO=1&YR=1981&output=5
[2] Hal Carsten's, Track Design (1989), from the Railroad Model Craftsman folks...
http://index.mrmag.com/tm.exe?opt=I&MAG=BOOK&MO=3&YR=1989&output=5
http://www.carstens-publications.com/depot.html
Track Design uses track spirals, track balloons, and dogbone ends quite creatively, and it is the more instructive of the two books. Each book has classic planning options, primarily illustrated in HO Scale, that fit your 12'x15' room.
Conemaugh Road & Traction circa 1956
railandsailOpps !! I didn't see the second page of this subject thread before I posted the Central MidlandI believe those 'around the wall with an island drawings' of Martins above look the best. And I would have a yard just for staging at least one other train, and to 'display' some of my other locos and rolling stock
Opps !! I didn't see the second page of this subject thread before I posted the Central MidlandI believe those 'around the wall with an island drawings' of Martins above look the best. And I would have a yard just for staging at least one other train, and to 'display' some of my other locos and rolling stock
Hi,
thanks for all your hints and help - designing a "dream" layout can turn into a nightmare, but due to fori like this one, there is plenty of help around.
I am in the finalization stage of my plannings and after 45 year of model railroading, a still had to learn a lot. Here are some of the lessons I learned:
- you cannot beat the confinements of the space you can allocate to your layout
- less is more, reduce your wish list
- every part of your layout needs to be readily accessible, so do windows, doors etc.
- laisles need to be wider than you think - that life belt around your middle needs place as well!.
Considering the above, my layout will be much simpler tha I thought. It is going to be a simple around the wall loop-type line, with plenty of switching possibilities, still allowing you to just let a train run around, if the need is there.
Thanks to all of you who helped me!
Brian
My Layout Plan
Interesting new Plan Consideration
Sir Madog Hi, I have been planning my "dream layout" for several months now, and whatever I have been comin up with, is just nice, but not really thrilling. This is going to be my final layout, so it needs to be something special. I am, however, caught in a mental blockade - designing my dream layout is turning into a nightmare!
I have been planning my "dream layout" for several months now, and whatever I have been comin up with, is just nice, but not really thrilling. This is going to be my final layout, so it needs to be something special.
I am, however, caught in a mental blockade - designing my dream layout is turning into a nightmare!
I'll begin with a posting I made recently,1) Are you still dreaming of that certain perfect layout you’ve been planning for years??2) Are you tired of procrastinating about getting a layout, so you can actual run some of those fabulous model trains in your ever-increasing collection??What you may need is an interim plan, at least. And you never can tell, your ‘interim plan’ may turn out to be more of a permanent plan than you first anticipated…..that’s what happened to me. Then again you might use this interim layout for awhile, then sell it on to another 'layout-less' train person when you finalized 'your dream layout'.....__________________________________________________________________________________Have you looked at the Central Midland design by John Armstrong?....just happened across this posting over on the Atlas forums siteI truly think this is one of The Best Atlas track plans! If you follow the layout as a single track mainline, and go thru all the main's crossover's, (As The mainline run) look at the Industry/switching potential.On the far left, the inside siding track can be a lead to a mine or timber or gravel 'industry thing' in the and above the 2 mains that crossover each other. (One, of course is hidden - at ground zero.) Over on the right, If you leave extra room to run parallel with the 2 mains, is a siding/switching area. I was thinking of a multi-single siloed Grain Elevater complex that would use only one or 2 tracks; Again switchable as the mainline crossover at the bottom lets a main train run freely, while switching along that right side.John, gives a little hint of these possibilities, with that little freighthouse at the bottom of the layout - again on a 'siding' , IF and when run as a single track mainline.All three Siding area's could be switched from the 'siding' off of the main - Not impeding a mainline run - His layout allows a mainline runner AND local freight ops at the same time!If you want a GREAT idea for that single track circle - Go to a Hobby Shop and take a look at the cover of Kalmbachs (Ian Rice author) "Small, Smart & Practical Track Plans" Just look what one example of that Loop with a little straight track, CAN Become!That John Armstrong - THE BEST ! His Layouts are like the very Best Bob Dylan song, the more you examine the more you see and learn. That Ian Rice Book is a Great read, also, And he explains the layout on that cover.I've got tons of idea's, but gotta keep "my eyes on the prize," - just getting the main track layed down.
....more, "The Central Midland" Atlas HO-29 layout w/Pics"
O.K. all,
here are now the pictures without any spamming.
# 2
# 3
Greetings, Martin
Hello Ulrich,
in the first plan, i think so, i made your basic trackplan a little bit more opperational by adding 2 hidden staging tracks and changing the "junction" into an grainelevator area. In the lower station there a now 2 storagetracks for loaded/unloaded graincars. The dotted line left is an alternate runaround to make graincar switching easyer. On the upper half of the penninsula is room for other business reachable from the upper station.
See next posting
While the focus in the first plan is switching, in the 2nd & 3rd plan the focus is on train- watching.
The upper station has changed into an junction/ visible staging.
Here the juction has changed into a long visible mainline with more staging behind the backdrop (reachable from an access inside the half loop. The changes i made on the plans are not to scale, they're olnly sketches.
Greetings from Lehrte, Martin
@ all, sorry for my english, it's not my verry best.
fwright Is access to the window required? What is your minimum aisle width? Is a duckunder, liftout, hinged section, or gate to a center operating pit acceptable?If a donut with center operating pit is acceptable, several plans come to mind. The Heart of Georgia (http://home.comcast.net/~scottgperry/HOGpix/Better%20Starter%20Layout%20419%20Large.jpg), the Georgia Southern (#48 from 102 Realistic Track Plans), and the Red Rock Northern (#34 from the same book) could all be enlarged to fit the upper right corner in a 9ft x 12 ft configuration. This would give you a 3ft outside aisle on the lower and left walls, which will keep your window accessible. All 3 plans could be simplified with fewer industries and spurs, if that is your preference.If the donut configuration is not acceptable, than a rectangle island with extension is the most practical alternative. The island (with one end pushed against the upper or right wall) and an extension shelf on the upper or right wall with aisle in between is better suited to switching operations because the extension shelf isn't wide enough to support a turnback curve. The extension could be a staging yard, though. Practical island width is limited to about 5ft, especially if one end goes against the right wall. That leaves a 2ft aisle and a 2 ft shelf along the upper wall. Or you can trade off less shelf depth for more aisle space. The 5ft width will work pretty well for 24" radius curves, and the island can easily be 12ft long. Redraw your favorite 4x8 plan in the 5x12 space using 24" radius curves, and you will have a pretty reasonable starting point. The center divider for the island is a good one.my thoughts, your choicesFred W
Is access to the window required? What is your minimum aisle width? Is a duckunder, liftout, hinged section, or gate to a center operating pit acceptable?
If a donut with center operating pit is acceptable, several plans come to mind. The Heart of Georgia (http://home.comcast.net/~scottgperry/HOGpix/Better%20Starter%20Layout%20419%20Large.jpg), the Georgia Southern (#48 from 102 Realistic Track Plans), and the Red Rock Northern (#34 from the same book) could all be enlarged to fit the upper right corner in a 9ft x 12 ft configuration. This would give you a 3ft outside aisle on the lower and left walls, which will keep your window accessible. All 3 plans could be simplified with fewer industries and spurs, if that is your preference.
If the donut configuration is not acceptable, than a rectangle island with extension is the most practical alternative. The island (with one end pushed against the upper or right wall) and an extension shelf on the upper or right wall with aisle in between is better suited to switching operations because the extension shelf isn't wide enough to support a turnback curve. The extension could be a staging yard, though. Practical island width is limited to about 5ft, especially if one end goes against the right wall. That leaves a 2ft aisle and a 2 ft shelf along the upper wall. Or you can trade off less shelf depth for more aisle space. The 5ft width will work pretty well for 24" radius curves, and the island can easily be 12ft long. Redraw your favorite 4x8 plan in the 5x12 space using 24" radius curves, and you will have a pretty reasonable starting point. The center divider for the island is a good one.
my thoughts, your choices
Fred W
Fred,
I too k up your idea of the "Heart of Georga RR" - it is just great! Ican built it fully modular, the modules can be put aside when the room is needed for something else (used to be my son´s room).
Thanks for the fantastic idea!.
Here is my plan:
... especially "Clinton Yard" needs to be worked on - I like the triangular shape, though...
Thanks, guys, for all the comments and help. I have to admit, that I have again learned quite a lot from your contributions - even after neing into this hobby for over 45 years.
I realize now that I have to reduce my dreams considerably in order to come up with something that is more than just a clutter of tracks. Guess that the old "less is more" is also valid in designing layouts. I feel tempted by the "large" space (at least for Europeans) available. At a second glance it is not that large. The door needs to be clear, however, a lift-out- section can be installed, but the door itself shall not be obstructed. The window needs to be accessible, even only for the occasional cleaning. In Germany, our windows swing into the room like doors, so that will be a challenge.
For me, it all boils down to building a shelf-type layout in segments, that can be moved if necessary. As I still want to be able to jest let a train run, it will be also a layout of the around-the-wall type.
See what I have come up with:
It still needs to be worked on and any idea is more than welcomed.
dehusman He said he is interested in running trains, so why have a yard, any switching yard, at all?
He said he is interested in running trains, so why have a yard, any switching yard, at all?
That's pretty much my thought as well.......The OP did say "big yards..." though......If he double decked he could have a fairly significant division point scene.........
HudsonYou really can't have BIG yards. I'd say 7' A/D and some similiar length classification tracks would be the largest. Unless of course you're willing to dedicate 60% of the space to one BIG yard.
He said he is interested in running trains, so why have a yard, any switching yard, at all? Put in a 8 track staging yard on one or two sides of the room, or around one corner. Then run a twice around double track loop The staging yard is hidden behind the upper level with a low line of hills or a low backdrop. Put a crew change with a couple sidings, a yard office, some out buildings, maybe an industry track or two, maybe a main line fueling station. Then run trains, stop one to switch teh few industries, the rest just take turns orbiting. Some can stop at the crew change some can stop and refuel.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
Sir MadogThankls, Stein, for the reference! I do have a further problem, though. I have not problem "filling" the room I have with a proper European prototype layout, but this is going to be the US - somewhere in the dry region, pregferable AT & SF or UP.I have searched MR´s track plan database , have nearly all books on h2 design a layout and still that mental kick is missing. I love sweeping curves, wide bridges, lot of scenery, big yards - all that requires something like a 40´ by 20´ train room. I know I will have to compromise - and this is exactly the issue - where and how?
Thankls, Stein, for the reference!
I do have a further problem, though. I have not problem "filling" the room I have with a proper European prototype layout, but this is going to be the US - somewhere in the dry region, pregferable AT & SF or UP.
I have searched MR´s track plan database , have nearly all books on h2 design a layout and still that mental kick is missing. I love sweeping curves, wide bridges, lot of scenery, big yards - all that requires something like a 40´ by 20´ train room. I know I will have to compromise - and this is exactly the issue - where and how?
You will *not* find prototype locations that inspire you by looking at random *model* railroad track plans or by focusing mainly on how big your room is.
What sources have you looked at for prototype locations ? What prototype locations have you looked at? What eras are you interested in, and so and so forth.
Just to pick a location in your general area : have you e.g. looked at e.g. Barstow, California?
Southwestern landscape, sweeping curves, bridge across the river, yard, both UP and BNSF these days, SP in the olden days, landmark Harvey House.
Just one example of many. My advice is to look at the prototype for inspiration - to find two or three (max) scenes you want to model in your room.
And only then start looking for how to fit them in by selective compression.
Smile, Stein
You can have a 30" mainline minimum radius running around the room if you're willing to accept bridging the door with a liftout.....That'll take care of your "wide bridge" requirement. You really can't have BIG yards. I'd say 7' A/D and some similiar length classification tracks would be the largest. Unless of course you're willing to dedicate 60% of the space to one BIG yard. If you want to get wild You could double deck via a nolix and double up on a penninsula striking out into the center of the space. That would really maximize the area. You really need to write down exactly what you'd like to achieve........
I had the same problem when I was at your stage. I drew a bobillion track plans up and there was a multitude of reasons why they didn't work. There was always a door that would screw up a radius I wanted or if I planned an area, I could not access it. My solution was to cover the room with as much benchwork as possible. I made sure I could access every part of the layout. The real railroads didn't plan the landscape to accommodate their railroad, the railroad fit the landscape that was already there. This was thinking a little differently but it worked well for me in the end. I ended up with a longer main line run than any of my plans had, and ended up with some nooks and cranny's that could become sidings or small industries. Set out your criteria for your layout and plan your benchwork first and then see if you can draw a trackplan to fit the benchwork. Cover as much of the room as possible but make it a comfortable place to be and you will get lots done. Also don,t just think in squares and rectangles for benchwork. Just my.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
This layout is smaller, to not overwhelm the room. The radii are 24 and 21. There is a 2 1/2 foot walkway on either side of layout so you can work both sides easily. Having a double track main satisfies your desire for mostly running trains. There is a separation of the different sides and scenery types with a tall backdrop down the middle. I would buy a professional (expensive) photo backdrop. It will increase the apparent depth of your layout and make it look detailed and scenicked almost immediately. You can expand the layout onto the empty wall to add more switching at a later date if you want to add some industries. I would be sure to finish the front of this layout with 1x6 wood that is stained and varnished. It will make the room look very nice with the finished layout.
The back is dominated by high eastern mountain scenery with a large gorge that helps satisfy your bridge requirement. The Walther's through truss would work well here. The mainlines work as a passing siding, so you can switch your coal mine, or whatever you put in that space.This is my coal mine on a 16 inch shelf layout, so your would be a little deeper Or you could have a rock quarry, with the Walther's gravel building, pretty easily. Or you could put a power plant (join 2 Walther's Northern Light and Power buildings end to end) in that space and deliver coal.
The front has a fairly nice town area that you can really detail like crazy. I added some buildings on front and back of road, but you may have to move the road forward and only have buildings behind the road. Try to leave/make space for a station in front of the road though, if you want one. The road continues to the left where there are some industrial buildings. Don't forget a water tower for the town, and water towers, etc... on top of the industrial buildings. Move the road to the back of the layout in this area, and raise it up into an overpass. This will hide the track going into the backdrop in the back left corner. Put Walther's Cornerstone building flats behind the road, but model the back of them, so they make sense being backed up to the road/overpass. Don't forget an interlocking tower in the middle of the "wye" area. Makes sense that there would be a railroad operator there. I'm not certain how I would hide the train entering backdrop on the right. Perhaps lots of trees to the right of the buildings, and enter a tunnel, mostly hidden by trees?
I like this size in this room because it looks good, and doesn't fill the room til you can't move. Having a staging yard on the left, allows you to operate a little, if you want, plus keeps the window accessible. Be sure to finish the edges with nice wood, so it looks like a piece of furniture. Super detailing this layout would be fun, and keep you busy. This would be a nice trade-off to building a 300' foot mainline with lots of scenery that takes years to complete. This is something that can be up and running in a week or two, and have buildings in a month or two. Then have scenery on that back in a couple months. At under 6 months you should be able to easily have it looking "complete" at first glance, then concentrate on detailing and refining.
Here's a layout I started but couldn't finish due to moving. It is 2 feet deep, but look much deeper with the photo backdrop. They are expensive, but very worth the price. You can see a few items I have in mind for the city area on the left. The store front buildings (although I would prefer 3 story buildings) with a road in front, and two tracks behind, and the Cornerstone building flats in the back ground. The water tower, the Power Plant I mentioned for the bcak is on the right, if you don't want a coal mine.
Sorrya for being late in replying... yes, it is HO scale, N is to small for my eyes and trembling fingers...
Alrighty...1
I don't see your scale - HO?
Doc in CT N-Scale would help with the sweeping curves and grand vistas. Around the room design with a duck-under by door (consider either rehanding the door to swing out or a folding door) would seem to be the way to go. A two layer design would also allow for more space for track and strucuture. My 2 cens
N-Scale would help with the sweeping curves and grand vistas.
Around the room design with a duck-under by door (consider either rehanding the door to swing out or a folding door) would seem to be the way to go.
A two layer design would also allow for more space for track and strucuture.
My 2 cens
Co-owner of the proposed CT River Valley RR (HO scale) http://home.comcast.net/~docinct/CTRiverValleyRR/
Sir Madog I love sweeping curves, wide bridges, lot of scenery, big yards - all that requires something like a 40´ by 20´ train room.
Exactly. So rather than sweeping curveS, wide bridgeS, BIG yardS, choose A location and buld A sweeping curve, A wide bridge, A SMALL yard.
I would suggest looking through prototype books to find a primary scene and one or two smaller secondary scenes that you really like and then build a model of that in front of a large staging yard.
HELP HELp HElp Help help?
http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/p/149953/1662160.aspx
I have been planning my "dream layout" for several months now, ansd whatever I have been comin up with, is just nice, but not really thrilling. Thius is going to be my final layout, so it needs to be something special.
I´d like to see trains run, not so much shunting and switching. Minimum radius should be 24" and turnouts no. 5 or 6
The follow pic shows my designated train room. You can easily see, why planning has become a nightmare!
Help - is there anybody out there to help?