CR&T What If Example #1 - the local traction company prototype extended more into interurban operations and as a local industrial shortline? The Johnstown Traction Company was known for having the largest fleet of PCCs for a smaller 3rd-class city.
CR&T What If Example #2 - the PRR extended electrification west of Harrisburg? The Pennsy originally intended to electrify the mainline across Pennsylvania.
for PRR Electric only - William D, Volkmer's "Pennsy Electric Years"
for PRR Electric & Steam - Alvin F. Staufer's "Pennsy Power"
for PRR Diesels - The "Pennsy Diesel Years" book(s) also provide PRR prototype insight, as does any book authored & photographed by Don Wood (Ex: "I Remember Pennsy").
...with careful observation & bidding, you can secure each of these books for $15-$20 on eBay.
If you have an understanding of the prototype, you can plan free-lancing, in a believable way. The CR&T is circa 1956 to allow for first generation diesel, some steam, doodlebug, and PCC/GG1/Box Motor traction. 1956 provides a lot of flexibility, not to mention, easy layout identification with an "I Like Ike" billboard. Greyhound Scenicruisers were also new in the 1950s.
Conemaugh Road & Traction circa 1956
Springfield PA
dehusmanI would suggest Pittsburgh because it was all steam and diesel, very busy, but less intense than the Phillie area and is a big city
I would suggest Pittsburgh because it was all steam and diesel, very busy, but less intense than the Phillie area and is a big city
I don't know about Philly, but Pittsburgh was blessed with this: http://images.library.pitt.edu/cgi-bin/i/image/image-idx?c=geotopo&page=index Monstrous amounts of highly detailed period survey maps. Some of them, particularly the older ones, even have the internal trackwork of the huge mills mapped out. I've been using a pair of plates from 1937 and another type of survey map dating to 1923 from the same site. Combined with 1986 USGS maps, 1995 aerial photosurvey, 2007 satellite imagery, and 2008 google streetview, I have a pretty good idea of everything that happened in that little valley I'm using as my prototype in the last 70 years. Now just to find something from the 50s and 60s, to figure out when the street trackage superceded the "street" part.
Even though I'm almost completely freelancing, relying on these real sources can buttress believability. "Could this size industry have fit in the area I suggest?" or "Would trackwork of this nature have been out of place in this general area of the city?"
Now that the brain-gears are turning, Pitt has maps of all the railroads in PIttsburgh, Penn State has the only maps of the Bellefonte Central and actually owns huge chunks of the old ROW, so Temple better be keeping up with this trend.
HamltnblueHere's a link to someone that does heavy philly stuff. Philly has a lot of steam and Diesel history including diesel today. Anyone who travels in the university city area knows this first hand. http://prrnortheastcorridor.com/NORTHEASTCORRIDORHO.html
Awesome link! Thanks!
I love this:
dehusman I would suggest Pittsburgh because it was all steam and diesel, very busy, but less intense than the Phillie area and is a big city, so you can have lots of big industries. The railroads also ran in river valleys so you can have a streep cliff or slope behind the trains and it will look OK. With lots of rivers, bridges are verrrrrry common.
I would suggest Pittsburgh because it was all steam and diesel, very busy, but less intense than the Phillie area and is a big city, so you can have lots of big industries. The railroads also ran in river valleys so you can have a streep cliff or slope behind the trains and it will look OK. With lots of rivers, bridges are verrrrrry common.
After reading some more, I think I will follow your suggestion. Thanks.
ndbprr Well I think I can help you some. Some of the T1 engines were built by Baldwin in Eddystone PA just south of Philly so you could justify one being road tested on the mainline. The stomping ground for these engines was Altoona and west. Several passenger trains were specials that ran to seashore points on the PRSL that used E7 and PA engines. You couldn't possibly do Delair bridge without some type of grade as it is hundreds of feet above the river. You might want to consider the PRR from Delair bridge to Pavonia yard in Camden with the Philly skyline or bridge in the background. I have found no evidence of I1, T1 or M1 engines making those transfer runs. E7 and T1 engines only had a very short history of operating at the same time and that would be the mid to late 40's so if you want to be totaly prototypical you want equipment from that era. Some things you should do. I would sign up to PRR-talk which has numerous people who can answer most of your questions. you will need to sen an e mail to DSOP@prr-talk with subscribe in the subject line. then you can post your questions. Also go to the PRRT&HS web site and sign up for The Keystone Modeler. this is a free publication devoted strictly to model subjects regarding the PRR and some phenomemal work. I would download all the past issues that are stored there as they contain a wealth of information. You may also want to join the PRRT&HS. It costs $35.00 per year and publishs a quarterly magazine of very high quality. there is also an annual comvention (Chicago this year) Harrisburg next year you can attend and get saturated with the PRR for the weekend. There are also some Yahoo web groups including PRRPro that takes on a particular project (currently an FGEX refrigerator car). people of all skill leveles and gauges participate and tell how they did certain aspects of building a car. Some are stock right from a manufacturer and some are completely scratch built.
Well I think I can help you some. Some of the T1 engines were built by Baldwin in Eddystone PA just south of Philly so you could justify one being road tested on the mainline. The stomping ground for these engines was Altoona and west. Several passenger trains were specials that ran to seashore points on the PRSL that used E7 and PA engines. You couldn't possibly do Delair bridge without some type of grade as it is hundreds of feet above the river. You might want to consider the PRR from Delair bridge to Pavonia yard in Camden with the Philly skyline or bridge in the background. I have found no evidence of I1, T1 or M1 engines making those transfer runs. E7 and T1 engines only had a very short history of operating at the same time and that would be the mid to late 40's so if you want to be totaly prototypical you want equipment from that era. Some things you should do. I would sign up to PRR-talk which has numerous people who can answer most of your questions. you will need to sen an e mail to DSOP@prr-talk with subscribe in the subject line. then you can post your questions. Also go to the PRRT&HS web site and sign up for The Keystone Modeler. this is a free publication devoted strictly to model subjects regarding the PRR and some phenomemal work. I would download all the past issues that are stored there as they contain a wealth of information. You may also want to join the PRRT&HS. It costs $35.00 per year and publishs a quarterly magazine of very high quality. there is also an annual comvention (Chicago this year) Harrisburg next year you can attend and get saturated with the PRR for the weekend. There are also some Yahoo web groups including PRRPro that takes on a particular project (currently an FGEX refrigerator car). people of all skill leveles and gauges participate and tell how they did certain aspects of building a car. Some are stock right from a manufacturer and some are completely scratch built.
Thanks!
rrinker First problem I see (nothing that can;t be fixed with a little modeler's license - but be prepared to ravenign hordes of PRR fans to descend on you and demand sacrifice ) is that the PRR east of Harrisburg was all electrified by 1938. Philly area MUCH earlier than that. The duplex T1's didn't run here, either.
First problem I see (nothing that can;t be fixed with a little modeler's license - but be prepared to ravenign hordes of PRR fans to descend on you and demand sacrifice ) is that the PRR east of Harrisburg was all electrified by 1938. Philly area MUCH earlier than that. The duplex T1's didn't run here, either.
lol, yeah, I suspected as much, thanks for the tip.
Its true, I am more trying to design an imaginary layout, maybe if I can get my hands on a GG1 though, I can compromise, but building the catenary systems that I see here could be pretty hard.
Maybe I will stick to pittsburg to try to keep it somewhat real.
As I said guys, I don't know anything about the PRR, just that they had beautiful engines, and I want to run them in place that reminds me of where I grew up, even though its not prototypical at all and would be considered by many on here to be nothing short of absurd and retarded...heh.
Question guys, if I decided to model Chicago, would that be somewhat more realistic? The T1 duplex's ran up there frequently right? Or am I wrong about that too?
Of course, the beauty of this hobby is you can build whatever you like, and no matter how much the rivent counters fume, you always get the last word because you ae building what YOU want, not building it for the sake of other people. If you prefer steam, and want to run M1's and J1's and K4's in the land of GG1's and P5's, this is your business and don;t let anyone tell you different..
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
rjake4454 The point is, I want the layout to somewhat resemble the idea of diesels roaming across the mighty Delair Railroad bridge which connects philly to pennsauken nj . I am more into continuous running, rather than using too much switching, I find switching very difficult when using large engines such as my BLI E7 A/B unit, the things a beast, but its beautiful. I also prefer to use larger radius, anything above 24 would be preferrable, although, obviously 33 would be ideal if I chose to run my pennsy t1 duplex (favorite engine).
I suggest Pittsburgh instead.
Did the pennsy T1 duplex's ever go near philadelphia at all even? If not, I would prefer to run this engine as well on my layout despite this, so it won't prototypical, I just love to run my trains anyway. A few signals would be nice too, but again, minimal switching.
Not even close to Phillie. Neither did the E7's. The Phillie area was electrified, even the branches, so 90% of the freight and passenger trains were electric. Only the local and industrial switching was steam or deisel.
I want one small tunnel (thats a big maybe at this point), a double track truss bridge (the longer the better), some industrial buildings, city backdrops, and perhaps a railroad crossing.
I also prefer to stay away from using a lot of trees, excess folliage or too many shrubs and such (they tend to be a pain, and unless you are an expert in these matters, they tend to look tacky on some layouts I have seen. Its a tedious job that I am not up for right now. The ground surface isn't all that important at this stage either, nor is ballasting (gets really messy even after months of practice.)
Unfortunately the area the Pennsy ran was covered with trees and forest, but if you pick a city you will reduce the number of them you need.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
My knowledge of the PRR is limited, please forgive me if my ideas about railroading and the geography and history concerning it, particularly around the philadelphia or the tri-state area are competely off base, but as I said, I am trying to learn and improvise, I may be genuinely ignorant, but growing up around this area inspired me to get into model railroading. Anyway, I simply love BLI pennsy engines, especially the early diesels and the late, powerful duplex steamers. Honestly, its very apparent that I don't know about the railroads of the time period encompassing the the late 40s to the late 50s, (still this is my favorite time period for railroading because of the .steam transition to diesel era).
First things first. I am not seeking to build a "real" prototypical layout due to limited space. The room I am using is only 15' x 15' wide, there is also a short hallway that goes back to the bedroom door for a small shelf, perhaps a small yard maybe could be put there, who knows...
The point is, I want the layout to somewhat resemble the idea of diesels roaming across the mighty Delair Railroad bridge which connects philly to pennsauken nj . I am more into continuous running, rather than using too much switching, I find switching very difficult when using large engines such as my BLI E7 A/B unit, the things a beast, but its beautiful. I also prefer to use larger radius, anything above 24 would be preferrable, although, obviously 33 would be ideal if I chose to run my pennsy t1 duplex (favorite engine).
Having tried a 2% grade on a 10x12 table at my brothers in the past, using 22" radius, I would prefer to leave grades alone, at least for now. It turned out to be very problematic, and looked really unrealistic in the space we had to deal with. Any bridge I put in will probably be placed between a section of my table that will be cut out, hopefully no grades at this point though.
I want it to look somewhat urban circa 1950, but more on the outskirts of Philly though, near the river, industrial and such, I don't want actual city buildings (too hard, and thats not what I am into), just city backdrops and some industrial buildings, random factories, water towers, standing near a railroad crossing and a bridge.
Its a tall order guys, I know ,but any help about what trains ran around this area during this time, and also if the PRR T1 ran anywhere near the northeast corridor.
Chicago is another thought, but I don't know much about it. This would be my second choice, I hear the pennsy S1 steam duplex was so long it ran mainly to Chicago and returned somewhere in PA.
Any ideas whatsoever for my layout, any layout design suggestions, track plans/radius tips, bridge building, etc.
The main point being, I want it for simple display running, I want the simplicity of the old lionel sets, but smaller, and I would like to incorporate my realistic BLI steamers and diesels into it, without the hassle however that often comes with HO or N scale modeling. I don't want to obess over layout detail or being prototypical. I just want it to be like an old lionel train running with flashy lights, signals, railroad crossings, buildings and other scenery are necessary perhaps in the future but not as important to me. On the other hand, I want the railroad to make at least some sense, I don't want it to look like a childish O-27 set that I grew up with (no offence to those who are into that, its just not my thing anymore).
I sure hope I can do this, it would be my dream layout, I grew up right next to philly in the suburbs of south jersey, right across the Ben Franklin and Betsy Ross Bridge, I can only imagine what it was like during that time. Stunning I bet.
Feel free to offer any help,
Thanks guys.