Rock & Rollin' the Riverbed

[mcfunkeymonkey]

Have a rocky Pacific Northwest creek that I'd like to put rock/ballast/talus & logs "underwater" so its visible at the clearer pools & slow moving parts.

Have only had experience with WS Realistic Water (on a test diorama), and that clouded up, shrunk or both.  Was thinking of gloss medium for the faster-moving parts of the creek.  Can brushing that on enough layers create the pools (not crystalclear, but enough to see details) or should I use something else? combine products (like a resin pool separated from matte medium moving water with rocks, etc.)?

Thanks!

--Mark

[selector]

This image shows what were three pours of a two-part hardware store finishing/paints section epoxy.  The top layer is a gel gloss medium that looks a lot like cold cream in a low, wide-mouthed jar.  The first two epoxy layers were clear, while the third had a teaspoon of Plaster of Paris and drop of acrylic craft paint from Wal Mart called "Huader Medium Green".  Each layer is about 1/8" thick...or less!   When that layer had dried, I applied the gloss gel in a thin layer and stippled it with the side of the brush.  This image shows white wavelets that were merely not yet dried clear.  As it looks today, no white crests are visible.

[CTValleyRR]

I always use gloss gel (thicker than medium, like paste) for rapidly flowing water.  You can get a great "roiled" appearance.  There are really only two things you have to be careful of:  1) make sure that your rocks and other stream bed materials are firmly glued down or you can pull them up with the brush, and they "float" in your water; and 2) you have to manually push the gel into all the holes, because it doesn't flow -- it stays where you put it.

I do 3 layers -- the first two set up the water "shape", then I dry brush a little gloss white paint on the places I want whitewater (do this carefully -- a little white goes a long way) -- then a final coat over the white to make it look like the white is "in" the water rather than on top of it.

For flat, calm spots, gloss medium works too, although it's hard to get it completely flat; which is fine in a river but doesn't work so well for a lake or pond..

[larak]

mcfunkeymonkey

Can brushing that on enough layers create the pools (not crystalclear, but enough to see details) or should I use something else? combine products (like a resin pool separated from matte medium moving water with rocks, etc.)?

 

Yes but you will need many many coats and yes.

I use Envirotex lite for the pools and gloss medium for for the rest. I didn't care for the realistic water either. It stays somewhat soft.

Karl

[Grampys Trains]

Hi Mark: You've received some good advice, here. I was also not happy with WS Realistic Water. My favorite water material is Magic Water. It's a 2 part resin that dries hard and clear. It can be poured as thick as you want.

 

 

[mcfunkeymonkey]

Wow: the picts look amazing and all the advice makes sound sense to me.  Thanks for taking the time for the feedback.

I think I'll try some 2-part epoxy or magic water base with some gloss medium movement over parts.

Any suggestions for the edge of the layout?

The creek comes at the front edge:

 

The bridges are temp. for now.  The fascia will be 1/8" masonite, smooth facing & rough waffle interior.  I was going to plaster the sides of the river and the rough interior of the facscia to seal the bed, install the bridges, pour the epoxy and then, when all done, cut the fascia down from roadbed level to creek level.
OR
should I put some clear plastic (like a piece of sandwitch bag between the fascia and the epoxy) so I don't have to worry about epoxy seepage issues?

(the pour would go to the rock casting in the rear, which is the water drop from the stream that will be elevated behind it and come in from the right.  Was thinking clear acrylic caulk over clear straw sections, or just gloss medium since its a short drop and can glide not spout).

Thanks again for all the help!

[CTValleyRR]

Your clear latex caulk will seal the area between the fascia and the plywood.  I have even had success just putting duct tape over the outside of the joint, then peeling it off when the water material has hardened.

To make a waterfall, you can use gloss gel right on the rocks, or if you want "falling" water, you can paint it on a piece of wax paper to create the waterfall, then peel the wax paper off when you get enough thickness in the water effect.

[mcfunkeymonkey]

Good tips on the waxpaper waterfall & duct tape dam.  I was just wondering about the unfinished waffle fuzz of the back of the masonite fascia and how that interacted with the epoxy (the WS Realistic Water I used on a diff. scene climbed the wall and created a depression before it).

I guess I could build up the latex caulk on the fascia interior to the river hight.

Thanks again!

[Grampys Trains]

Hi Mark: You could cut your hardboard fascia to the contour of your banks and stream bottom. I used a piece of styrene for a dam, poured the Magic Water, and, after it dried, pulled the styrene dam off. Something like this.

 

 

[mcfunkeymonkey]

That looks fab!  I love the rock bottom showing through the edge. 
(I've always been a big fan of the natural museum cross-section dioramas and aquariums that show above / below the waterline).
Did you use diluted white glue to attach the riverbottom rocks or?
Interesting roll at the edge: was that from a top layer of gloss medium or?

Love yr texturing!

[Grampys Trains]

 Thanks, Mark. This was the first stream I attempted. Originally, I used WS water, but it never really hardened and developed unnatural lumps. The pebbles were glued down with WS cement, similar to full strength white glue. Note: make  sure the glue is dry before pouring water. I bought some Magic Water and poured it over the WS stuff. I think it turned out well. I used WS Water Effects for the ripples. Then dry brushed them with off white paint. There was a lip when I removed the styrene dam, so I rounded the edge with a sharp utility knife. Hope this helps.