Yes TZ the last two layouts have no grades. Heres s revision to the new layout.
jep1267Ok, I'm back and with a new plan. What do ya think?
On the latest one, I think would bring the cut of for the mine closer to the center and angle it in steeper so the actual mine tracks are longer (angling more downward). I don't see any purpose for the long curved double ended siding on the track cutting through the center. It has a limited the amount of space for an industry. If it is just supposed to be a run around, it seems it could be done a little more effeciently.
On the other hand. Having the industries located on a reversing section of track allows one to switch the same set of tracks as either trailing or facing point operations.
Other than the coal mine the latest plan has all the industries in one place. Regardless of how I try to look at it, it "looks" line one town, not two places. With this design I am not invisioning any way to put in scenic dividers to break it into serveral smaller scenes.
Finally I don't like turnouts points to be immediately off a curve. I always like to stick in a short straight so at least one set of the loco wheels (trucks) can be going straight before it gets to the points.
Ok, I'm back and with a new plan. What do ya think?
EDIT: I forgot to add a turnout at the bottom leading off the layout onto a removabl staging area.
Hi I'm back, I've removed the up and over in favor of a 90 degree crossover.
Looking forward to some more comments.
J.P.
markpierceHow steep are the grades on this puppy?
markpierce Less than 1-percent grades? Not hardly. A 2-inch rise in 32-inches distance is an average of 6.25% (2 divided by 32). Grades can't change immediately between level and maximum grade. You need transitional vertical curves at the top and bottom of the grade so the steepest part of the track may end up around 7+ percent. Those are roller-coaster grades and will create havoc in operations. I'd suggest more planning and revision before you start building.
Less than 1-percent grades? Not hardly. A 2-inch rise in 32-inches distance is an average of 6.25% (2 divided by 32). Grades can't change immediately between level and maximum grade. You need transitional vertical curves at the top and bottom of the grade so the steepest part of the track may end up around 7+ percent. Those are roller-coaster grades and will create havoc in operations. I'd suggest more planning and revision before you start building.
Oh boy do I feel like an ***. I totally misunderstood the whole figuring grades out thing...math was NEVER my strong suit. Thanks for straitening (spelling either ) me out. Maybe I should think about an hour glass or kidney shape on my inside loop.
jep1267 markpierce How steep are the grades on this puppy? Well considering I only need enough hight to clear a train which by my calculation is less than 2 inches my incline might be less than 1% but certainly not more than that. The distance from the switch behind my downtown area to the track I need to clear is roughly 32 inches...depending on how acurate that little "add a mesurement" utility in the RTS program is. So that shoud make my grade pretty shalow. I guess I won't be able to be REALLY sure until I start building.
markpierce How steep are the grades on this puppy?
How steep are the grades on this puppy?
Well considering I only need enough hight to clear a train which by my calculation is less than 2 inches my incline might be less than 1% but certainly not more than that. The distance from the switch behind my downtown area to the track I need to clear is roughly 32 inches...depending on how acurate that little "add a mesurement" utility in the RTS program is. So that shoud make my grade pretty shalow. I guess I won't be able to be REALLY sure until I start building.
I see what your saying Lizard, but I was trying to stAy away from doing a reversing loop. I may regret that too down the road but hey ya never know.
Well I've done some tweaking and added some gentle curves to try to eliminate the "toy" like aspect from it.
You might also consider another turnout and straight track running off the edge of the layout (lower right, say) to allow for future expansion. Many people with 4'x8's (ok, or small N scale layouts) find they would like to add staging or some other extension to their pike! Success has a way of creating the need for more layout space.
I had the same thought as Bob Hahn - you cannot reverse direction. A train running clockwise will always run clockwise, on either the inner or outer loop. Same for counterclockwise. If you put a double slip switch between the parallel tracks on the lower right you could reverse a train's direction. You might be able to pull this off with Atlas Customline switches and a crossover, but it' going to be tight. You can work that out with Right Track. Alternately you could buy a double slip switch from one of the pricier brands and save layout space. (I'm HO, but assume N has similar product offerings.)
If you are using DC this will complicate (somewhat) your block wiring, but it's do-able. Several Atlas track plan books talk about how to wire reverse sections with DC. If you go DCC, it's a non-issue (except for the potential head on collision!)
Lizard
The Texas Zephyr track plan may be a little crowded, but contains a yard,a round house, and ability to go from inner to outer loops, and then return to the inner loop (without having to back up!) Have you considered a "double-slip switch" which will allow crossovers from either direction ? Bob Hahn
PS: As "onebiglizard" states, double-slip switches on DC layouts require special wiring, (or the loco will back up). It can be done with DC ,dpdt toggle switches, if wired properly. Actually, 2 double-slip switches would make your plan much more interesting for varied train operation. Have you considered DCC, like Digitrax Zephyr, (which is expandable) ?
Ok here's the final plan. I added Zeph's suggestions and I think its a keeper
A couple more tweaks and I'm calling it done...unless I decide to change it
Thanks for all your help J.P.
Jake1210sundayniagaraThe Pine Ridge is a very nice layout. What scale is it?Seeing as it appears to be on a 2x8 footprint, and that the turnouts are about 4" long looking at the grid, I'd have to put an informed guess on N scale.
sundayniagaraThe Pine Ridge is a very nice layout. What scale is it?
sundayniagara<snip> The Pine Ridge is a very nice layout. What scale is it?
The Pine Ridge is a very nice layout. What scale is it?
Seeing as it appears to be on a 2x8 footprint, and that the turnouts are about 4" long looking at the grid, I'd have to put an informed guess on N scale.
Thanks Zeph, (can I call you Zeph?)
I really like what you have come up with. My initial thought on the Coal company was for it to be a drop off for home heating company like they had in the 50s. But now that I think about it a mine might generate more trafic. AND the mine can service the heating Co. I totally agree with ou about symmetry, though for some reason it took you mentioning it for me to realize it. I like the Idea of putting in a curve. I'm going to work on those ideas of yours
Texas Zepherjep1267I drew up a track plan in RTS that I'd like submit for your review. Is there a way to post a Right Track diagram on the discoussion board?What I usually do is to save the diagram as a .bmp file. I then call up the .bmp in "Paint Brush" and save it as a .jpg. If I need to resize or anything then I use "Microsoft Photo Editor". Why do I do this? 1. The "save as" .jpg function of RTS does something funny and the .jpgs don't work right (I've tried with both version 5 and 7 of RTS). 2. My Microsoft Photo Editor doesn't like the .bmp files RTS produces but paintbrush does. So bottom line is to test it using the various software available on your machine and you should be able to find a combination that works.To post the picture on the web you have to save the diagram to a web site somewhere in an HTML friendly format (hence the .jpg). Then in your message you link to that picture using the - open angle bracket IMG close angle bracket format. If you look at this message in "view source" format it should show the IMG notation for the picture below ---> My interest is contiuous running, dual line mains and scenery. .. The one issue I'm kind of struggling with is how to visualize the scenery with the section of the 8 that crosses over itself. I plan to elevate it but I'm not sure how to tie the scenery in with the track's elevation.What sort of scenery are we talking about here? Mountains, plains, desert, forest, city, suburb? In my son's HO scale figure-8 we did the scenery as if it was an interlocking tower in the suburbs where two railroads are crossing each other. Elevated obviously means a bridge on one track, but there can be bridges in any of the types of scenery.
jep1267I drew up a track plan in RTS that I'd like submit for your review. Is there a way to post a Right Track diagram on the discoussion board?
To post the picture on the web you have to save the diagram to a web site somewhere in an HTML friendly format (hence the .jpg). Then in your message you link to that picture using the - open angle bracket IMG close angle bracket format. If you look at this message in "view source" format it should show the IMG notation for the picture below --->
My interest is contiuous running, dual line mains and scenery. .. The one issue I'm kind of struggling with is how to visualize the scenery with the section of the 8 that crosses over itself. I plan to elevate it but I'm not sure how to tie the scenery in with the track's elevation.
1. My first comment you have already fixed. I was going to point out that one could cross from one track(loop) to the other in only one direction.
2. I don't understand the entry for the industrial area coming all the way from the lower left outside track. Just seems to take space and take away from the "through" the scenery concept you are after.
3. I think there is a grade issue. Not necessarily with the track but with the associated scenery. That is the abandon farm house is near the highest track while the "inner track on the ledge" of a mountain is near where the two tracks are getting closer to the same level. I think it will work better to reverse these two elements.
4. The coal mine area seems cramped and too close to the city industrial area scene.
5. The main tracks are too symmetrical for my tastes. Symmetry yells "toy train" set up.
I've encorporated these suggestions into a plan below. Note I also used the elevation to move one part of the figure-8 to the left. I squeezed the two tracks on the right hand curve together so it looks more like a passing siding or double track main line. This leaves more room for scenery. I forgot to include the stream, but could still work and the pond might look good by the coal mine or on the other side of the track by the abandon farm. I would also put a gentle curve into the long straight across the bottom by the abandon farm house. There are still going to be some elevation problems. That is the crossover on the bottom will have to be slightly elevated. I would acutall lower the outer loop track along the curve on the left hand side so the upper track can come down sooner.
A final thought is that one of the corners on the right could be used to squeeze another industry into.
Good point! I was thinking the only reson to go to the inside loop would be for acess to the industry spurs. Now I see I only have access to them from my ouside loop. There WAS a cross over from the inner loop to the industry spur but it must have got lost AND forgotten about in my many revisions.
I like your suggestion because now I have my run aroun and access into and out of the inner loop. I guess I could start the climb up right after that turnout below down town. I only pland to go 1.75" - 2.00' at the most to keep my grade small. Just enough for the train to clear the overpass.
I also tweaked the industry spur, brining it closer to the main to shorten the needed span some.
It also has no run around, a siding with a switch at either end, but you don't have any spurs facing the "other way".
Once you head into the inner loop there is no way to get out of it without backing out. If you put a crossover with left hand switches between the two loops on the bottom under the "downtown" area, you will be able to transistion between loops.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
Ok here it is. Now I know I have some short comming in the fact I have no staging, I may work out some kind of removable staging cassette(?) after I get it all set up. And I'd like to have a runaround, I tried putting one in in the area right behind the buildings where I have downtown marked off but couldn't seem to get it to work. One reason being due to the fact the tracks will be probably be on different levels in that area. The inner track here will start it's up hill climb to cross the lower track. I'm up for suggetions on this. I'm not totally married to the up and over aspect but with my industry siding a cross over would be, in MY head, be a nightmare. Eliminating it would solve my run around issue....again suggestion are welcome.
Zeph, My railroad is loosly set in the North East (new jersey-ish) so the kind of scenery I'm looking for is wilderness/mountains, a small town down town set in the early 50's...am I asking for too much for such a small area ? . I really like your PR&NR plan It has the element I'm realy trying to get on my layout, having trains run through the scenery. I've had a few 4x8 HO layouts and it always seemed my trains would run around it my scenery elements...hence the fig 8 on this new plan.
Within RTS you can save it as a BitMap and post the picture.
From the menu, choose File; SaveAs then at the bottom of the dialog box there is Save As Type which is a drop down; select Bitmap
Before you post the picture, you might want to convert it to a jpeg to save space.
Hope that helps.
Glenn -- PRR in Georgia
I drew up a track plan in RTS that I'd like submit for your review. Is there a way to post a Right Track diagram on the discoussion board?
Just to add some information, and I have a space of 6'.5" by 2'.5". It's an N scale layout that is a figure 8 inside an oval. My interest is contiuous running, dual line mains and scenery. I've managed to get a couple of industry siding for some operational interest.
The one issue I'm kind of struggling with is how to visualize the scenery with the section of the 8 that crosses over itself. I plan to elevate it but I'm not sure how to tie the scenery in with the track's elevation. I know this is kind of pointless with out a plan but thought I post anyway. Hopefully someone will know a way to post a RAL file.