I second the crumpled aluminum method. Looks very similar to the plaster casting method, but much less effort involved.
Use the Heavy Duty grilling type foil.
No, you're right, I haven't seen them (other than in a box at the store). I've always used foam insulation board and sculptamold, which work just fine for me. As I read about all the hassle of the liner molds, I remain convinced. I don't even use latex molds for rock faces anymore, as I've learned how to make good looking ones by carving wet sculptamold with a palette knife.
Connecticut Valley Railroad A Branch of the New York, New Haven, and Hartford
"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right." -- Henry Ford
Greetings,
I have used these tunnel liners a few times and I have seen them used in other neat ways. Those who have stated that you only see into a tunnel a few inches are very correct unless of course the tunnel is very short. For short stright tunnels these liners are great because they cast up fast and can be used for single track or double. For longer and curved tunnels only two to three sections will really be needed. After that the tunnel can be made from foam or open depending on your layout construction.
I have used the liners on a curve too. Cast the parts as you normaly would but after they have dryed use a band saw with a fine tooth blade and cut the plaster into wedges. This will allow you to make a curve.
Having a tunnel fully lined is not really practical but if you really wanted to you can. Well i should not say that, IF for some reason you are getting light into the tunnel area it could bleed into the tunnel and out the tunnel portal. If you do line the whole tunnel do not glue all the sections in place. Make some of them either removeable or use tape (or some other material) on the top to make a hinge so the track can be accessed for maintance or dealing with a derailment.
I visted a friends club layout and one of the "member sections" was made into a mountian. The track was placed towards the edge of the layout. The modeling WAS the tunnel. The front of the tunnel had removable glass to keep hands out but the whole tunnel was modeled. The artist even went as far as to model the interior crossection of the mountain. On a home layout the person built it using the WS products and had access holes in the foam walls to access the tunnel. When opened the access pannel showed the back side of the tunnel using these liners.
As good as these liners are I think they do have draw backs. WS only makes the one style of liner. If you want a rougher texture then the crinkled tin foil "bowl" is the next way to go. Further, if you are modeling N scale then the liner needs to really be cut down and I do not think you can even start to use it for O.
I hope this helps.
Christopher
I got the WS liner mold and found that they're a PIA to put together and not worth the time. Agree with a previous post above that the visual bang is not there for detailing tunnel liners, really can't seem them much anyway. I found using a thick cardboard poster tube worked just fine, painting the inside of the tube a dark green, color of concrete when it gets dirty.
I did some online research on this before embarking, and found that, in the modern 1960s plus era, most tunnels had concrete liners, which are smoother than the rock liners that the WS molds model. The cardboard offers a good texture for this. If a tunnel has a rock wall inside, it's more than likely that it has not portal either, for if the rock is strong enough to hold together inside than it';s usually strong enough for no portal, it's just a blasted rock tunnel.
It also seems that a tunnel is far more likely to have a newer concrete liner than the age of its portal, For instance, most tunnels with cut stone portals in the modern era are quite old tunnels that usually got retrofitted with a concrete liner.
There m ay be tunnel junkies out there that have better and more detailed info on this, but that's just what I found when reading up on the subject.
The longer and more thoroughly you mix it, the thicker it gets. I believe it is a combination of the additional mixing and the aditional time as it begins to react and set. I use a wisk on a (slow) cordless drill to mix it as I pour in the hydrocal. You can pour in half the mold for detail and then mix it for another minute or so then pour the thicker material on top of the thinner material.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
CTValleyRR jrbernier Depending on how you plaster sets up, you may have you hands full keeping the plaster from running out of the forms! Jim Jim, Fill a shallow cardboard box with sand and embed your molds in it, making sure they are level before pouring any plaster. This should fix your "runout" problem.
jrbernier Depending on how you plaster sets up, you may have you hands full keeping the plaster from running out of the forms! Jim
Depending on how you plaster sets up, you may have you hands full keeping the plaster from running out of the forms!
Jim
Jim,
Fill a shallow cardboard box with sand and embed your molds in it, making sure they are level before pouring any plaster. This should fix your "runout" problem.
CTValleyRR, Although this an excellent suggestion to use for large flimsey latex molds, I wouldn't want anyone working w/ this plastic tunnel liner mold to try this method. You apparently haven't seen this mold and the convex nature of it's shape. I find that a thicker than normal batch of plaster and tilting the mold if nec to retain the loose plaster works. The mold is such a thin plastic that after using a 1/2 dozen times may need some support as the plastic can start to crack as did one of the ones I was using. The plaster does need to be wet enough to fill the details of the mold, with a drier batch of plaster some tapping/ initial vibration may help. Hydrocal seems to work the best, starts to set quickly and produces a stronger cured casting.
Modeling B&O- Chessie Bob K. www.ssmrc.org
It is true that most tunnels allow only a few inches of view for the liner. I have used the WS mold for some that may show more interior of the liner. The pouring of the flimsey plastic mold can be troublesome, mix the plaster/Hydrocal a bit thicker or it will run out. Tipping of the mold back and forth for a few minutes will help retain the plaster until it thickens. If the mold doesn't want to keep it's shape lay it over a carved chunk of foam before pouring.
There are so many methods that you can use, many described as carved foam, crumpled foil.
I have done many that the viewing side was done with just a piece of wood and detain or wall castings applied far enough in to satisfy the viewing angle. This pic shows one, wall castings were glued to a piece of ply about 10" in.
The liner shows now due to light coming through the cardboard webbing. Once finished only about 5-6" will be visible.
This curved double track was done the same but is 3ft long and one wall can be viewed through. The outboard wall was carried the full length.
Grampy, that's some great work on the tunnel
Ah but then how would you get an awesome photo like DJ's?
Actually, for the situations you describe, you're probably right. You can't see in there, so why bother detailing it, when there's plenty of VISIBLE spots on the layout to detail. Makes sense. But what about if you have a line running along the side of a mountain and there's an outcropping that needed to be tunneled through, just a short tunnel, where you can see both sides because it's right near the front? Think various tunnels on Appalachian railroads liek the CLinchfield, or even Breakneck Tunnel on the NYC. Short tunnels like that were the viewer following a train along can easily see inside need some sort of detailing.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Let me be the devil's advocate here, or maybe just the grinch, and ask whether realistic tunnel liners are really worth the effort. They can barely be seen. I have several recent experiences which illustrate that. The first had to do with a tunnel I built for a dummy interchange with another railroad. The line disappears into a tunnel near the backdrop. I was concerned that a viewer might be able to look into the tunnel and see the track butting against the backdrop. I constructed the tunnel of a simple box of 1x4s painted black on the inside. What I discovered was that it is so dark inside that box you can't even see to the backdrop even though it is no more than 6 inches from the portal. You can' see anything more than a couple inches into the tunnel. It's just a black hole that the track disappears into and it works.
My most recent project required a pair of tunnels through a large hill. The viewing angle prevents anyone from seeing more than 6 inches inside the tunnel. I built the far wall of the tunnel with two pieces of 2" foam which I coated with joint compound to give it some texture. I didn't bother with the near wall since it can't be seen from the aisle. I then painted the wall dark gray. Once the shell of the hill was put in place, there was so little light inside the tunnel, the texture was barely visible and the dark gray color made the wall almost disappear. Even a locomotive headlight only lights up the tunnel wall for an instant so the viewer really doesn't get much chance to take in what is there.
Rich:
REALLY impressive!
Tom
Tom View my layout photos! http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/TWhite-014/Rio%20Grande%20Yuba%20River%20Sub One can NEVER have too many Articulateds!
Then you have Kelly's Heroes, where it's the tank going through the railroad tunnel...
I adjusted the photo a little to give you a little better idea of what the inside looks like. Just remember, when you see the light at the end of the tunnel, it may be a train coming toward you.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
Allegheny2-6-6-6 I think it may have been Von Ryan's Express but I'll just have to watch em both to make sure. How about Kelly's Hero's when Odd Ball drives the Sherman through the tunnel playing I've been working on the railroad over a PA system
I think it may have been Von Ryan's Express but I'll just have to watch em both to make sure. How about Kelly's Hero's when Odd Ball drives the Sherman through the tunnel playing I've been working on the railroad over a PA system
Actually, the movie with the tank at the end of the tunnel is BATTLE OF THE BULGE. But what the Hey, LOL!
Believe it or not, a good rock tunnel lining can be made out of crumpled aluminum foil spray-painted black and umber (or whatever rock color you prefer). Takes a little 'fitting', but it's faster than plaster, and more flexible, especially if you happen to have a tunnel on a curve.
I think you mean Von Ryan's Express, I don't remember a train in the Longest Day.
DJ, great picture. It reminds me of the train entering the tunnel in "The Longest Day".. only there was a German tank at the other end.
Marlon
See pictures of the Clinton-Golden Valley RR
I have a set and used them last year. I cast 2 pairs in one evening and istalled them a few days later. Depending on how you plaster sets up, you may have you hands full keeping the plaster from running out of the forms! There are two 'half' and a 'center' section included with each set.
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
No I haven't, but I'd like to watch this thread.
DJ
Thats a good enough endorsement for me, did you buy more then one ? I figured they aren't that expensive so maybe at least two to cast both halfs at the same time.
Hi: Brian, I have used them on my layout. I think they are very realistic.