Its been sometime sence I posted here. I have taken some time off from planing my layout, but, its still bugging me that I have not gotten any work done on it.
Here is what I got. My layout room is about 11x12 or so. The only two doors in the room are on the same wall, in the oppsiste cornors. Both on the 11 foot wall. I live in a appartment so, I cant do much and the layout will have to be moving and planed for it.
I am using N scale. Want to based it off the Norfolk division of the N&W RR. I know, not a division of that line that gets modeled alot, but, I am from that part of the line, as is my family.
Now, what I need, what would be the best use of my space. To give me run and room for one main yard, at least 4 or 5 towns plus staging area. Also, I want to have the trains run so if I want, I can just railfan or run the trains as if they are real. Ideas or tips?
Sounds like a simple "U" shaped plan is in order. If you want continuous running, you'll need to have the two legs of the U at least 36" deep. Since you can't really attach anything to the apartment walls, you could do three door panels, two 36x80 on either side, and maybe a 24 x 80 along the bottom of the U. Just design your track plan so the connections between the door panels can be unbuttoned similar to an N track module.
Are you planning to do any kind of representation of Portsmouth with all the coal export stuff? Could be a pretty neat scene, and a loop for the rotary dumper would be a good way to disguise your return loop.
Lee
Route of the Alpha Jets www.wmrywesternlines.net
thanks for the ideas.
I am going to be setting my layout from about just west of Crewe Va, around Burkville Va so I can get the interchange with the Southern RR then running to back east to Maybe Wakefield Va or just east of there. I may go west as far as Famville. Just dont know.
I just did the google map thing... looks to be pretty straightforward. That would be the C&O with the yard at Crewe, right? And it looks like three lines come together on the west side of Burkville.... What did you have in mind?
No, I am going to being doing the Norfolk and Western in the early 1950s or so. Also, the room I have to use is right at 10'10" by 11'9".
Tryed your idea and I could not get a U shape to fit into it.
ok, here is my table plan. Now, any one for any idea for it?
http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=545757
I was wondering how you would get four or five towns in the space you described, but you could do it in the bench configuration you have there. This would be my style of layout with maximized run. You will want your bench clearance to the floor to be in the order of 50" so that you don't have to duck too far.
Your layout is narrow everywhere, so reach won't be a problem. It also means it will be oriented strongly to the axis, and that includes any industries to be switched along the way. It might be a better idea, for the sake of varied scenery and angles of tracks and such to have one or two benches somewhat wider than what you depict.
Also, consider that many folks eventually want to turn a train, or certainly an engine, and you won't be able to do that...no place for a turning wye or a reverse loop...not even a turntable. You may have no such interest, in which case it is moot.
There is nothing wrong with what you have done, and in the order that you are doing it, as long as your process meets the need of a vision or plan. You have very little of either at the moment (begging your pardon), and should consider deciding what critical elements your track plan will include. In other words, what are your givens and druthers. Once you have those, will they easily fit, and be functional, on the benchwork you have depicted in the diagramme?
It all has to work. But what....exactly...has to work? Once you figure out the what, the where will come naturally.
-Crandell
I assume the yard at Crewe is going to be the focal point. If you can work that in to one of the longer straighter sections, or perhaps wrap it around one corner, that will free up the rest of the circuit for the main line running.
If you set up enough passing sidings so you can send trains out from either direction from the yard, the turn around question is less critical. Adding a turntable will enable you to turn engines around without consuming the space of a wye.
It's hard to tell from the aerial photos, but is this area more of a piedmont with rolling hills? Seems too far east to be in the Blue Ridge...
So it looks like the most interesting parts of the line are at Crew, and Burkesville, where there appears to be a junction. There also appears to be a big quarry of some sort out past Green Bay near Virso.
Looks like it might be rail served, but the resolution of the satellite view isn't quite where you need it to be able to tell.
Seems to me a good place to start would be a big circuit that runs around your bench design, with the track undulating a bit as it goes. The terrain seems pretty smooth, but not without some hills, and the railroad appears to follow a couple of rivers that twist about some.
Anyway, but the yard on one side of the room, and a long passing siding on the other, and single track the rest. If you want to include some industries to switch, I'd start with the gravel pit, and maybe do some small in-town sidings, like a fuel dealer, farm supply and maybe a freight house. It doesn't look like GM would have had a plant out there ever!...
I'd start with a layer of foam at least 1" above the plywood deck so you can sculpt some scenery elements below track level. I'd also recommend Atlas C-55 and DCC to maximize the appearance and "play value" of the layout.
Oh, and you better start making trees now... looks like you're going to need a ton of them!
Good luck!
Let me just repeat some advice I gave rtprimus in some posts the last time he posted about not being able to come up with a layout plan:
steinjr rtprimus wrote:I am a HUGE fan of the N&WRR. Already been to see old 611 in person, and saw her as a boy on what I think was one of her last fan trips back in the late 80's or earlyer 90's. I live in the Petersburg Va area and want to model the line in that area. So, call the line from Crewe or so to the east... I am a N scale lover and belive that will give me the most for my room. I also live in a apartment so, I till have to be built to move. I also love steam so, mid 1950s if my time frame!! So, any tips or ideas? Have you looked at e.g. http://maps.live.com to look at the area - old or new tracks, lay of the land, landmarks etc. Tracks may have changed - but rivers and hills doesn't move much. Got any pictures of the Norfolk and Western in the area you want to model ? That's a good basis for thinking about what you would like to see on your layout. Have you thought about what exites you - coal drags? Passenger traffice? Switching boxcars? Adding and removing helpers to a train going over a pass ? Engine service area ? Where do you picture yourself: trackside watching the trains pass by or on a hilltop half a mile away watching the trains pass around a curve or over the hill (the railfan view), driving the train (engineer view), planning switching moves (conductor view), planning where trains will meet and scheduling trains (dispatcher view), or something else ? Inspiration can come from many places. Grin, Stein
rtprimus wrote:I am a HUGE fan of the N&WRR. Already been to see old 611 in person, and saw her as a boy on what I think was one of her last fan trips back in the late 80's or earlyer 90's. I live in the Petersburg Va area and want to model the line in that area. So, call the line from Crewe or so to the east... I am a N scale lover and belive that will give me the most for my room. I also live in a apartment so, I till have to be built to move. I also love steam so, mid 1950s if my time frame!! So, any tips or ideas?
I am a HUGE fan of the N&WRR. Already been to see old 611 in person, and saw her as a boy on what I think was one of her last fan trips back in the late 80's or earlyer 90's. I live in the Petersburg Va area and want to model the line in that area. So, call the line from Crewe or so to the east... I am a N scale lover and belive that will give me the most for my room. I also live in a apartment so, I till have to be built to move. I also love steam so, mid 1950s if my time frame!!
So, any tips or ideas?
Have you looked at e.g. http://maps.live.com to look at the area - old or new tracks, lay of the land, landmarks etc. Tracks may have changed - but rivers and hills doesn't move much.
Got any pictures of the Norfolk and Western in the area you want to model ? That's a good basis for thinking about what you would like to see on your layout.
Where do you picture yourself: trackside watching the trains pass by or on a hilltop half a mile away watching the trains pass around a curve or over the hill (the railfan view), driving the train (engineer view), planning switching moves (conductor view), planning where trains will meet and scheduling trains (dispatcher view), or something else ?
Inspiration can come from many places.
Grin, Stein
steinjrrtprimusI am a HUGE fan of the N&WRR. Already been to see old 611 in person, and saw her as a boy on what I think was one of her last fan trips back in the late 80's or earlyer 90's. I live in the Petersburg Va area and want to model the line in that area. So, call the line from Crewe or so to the east... I am a N scale lover and belive that will give me the most for my room. I also live in a apartment so, I till have to be built to move. I also love steam so, mid 1950s if my time frame!! Okay - typical start of basic research. http://www.google.com Enter search term NW 611 - okay, we learn that the 611 is streamlined 4-8-4 engine, used for passenger traffic, supplanted in the late 1950s by diesel passenger engines - EMD E6, E7, E8s. So - do you want to model passenger traffic primarily, or primarily freight ? Back to http://www.google.com Look up "Norfolk and Western". Okay - there is a historical society for the Norfolk and Western, web address http://www.nwhs.org/ - they probably can offer advice on where to learn more about the N&W in the 1950s, Bookmark that one. Click on various links on that web site - okay, they have an archive with lots of drawings and pictures. Located in Roanoke. The website has a collection of links to other sites: http://www.nwhs.org/other_sites2.html One of the links lead to Virginia Tech's image database: http://imagebase.lib.vt.edu/search.php Let's try a few of the names you listed in another post rtprimus So, here is the towns I am planing on starting from the west end to the east end of the run West Farmville, burkeville, Crewe, blackstone, Petersburg-Hopewell, Waverly, Wakefield, Sulfolk. Now, I know some of the stops, and what I can put or SHOULD put. Yard and roundhouse at Crewe, Fort Picket at Blackstone. Peanuts in Waverly/Wakefield. Im from Petersburg area, and know what I want there. But, the rest is blank for me.. My Goal is to be able to railfan the trans as they run, but also work the yard, and run trains to each town and switch they towns. I already know I am have to go with a 2 level layout... Okay, pick a town at random - Crewe. They have 63 historic images from Crewe, many of them showing railroad structures. Here is one showing part of the yard at crewe on November 13th 1950: http://spec.lib.vt.edu/imagebase/norfolksouthern/full/nw864.jpg There is another showing an icing house at Crewe - so Crewe had an icing house. And so on and so forth. Clicking on the "more information on picture", we learn that this picture is a part of a collection of Norfolk and Western pictures. Clicking on that link takes us to: http://imagebase.lib.vt.edu/browse.php?folio_ID=/trans/nss Lookie, lookie - about 10 000 historical Norfolk and Western photos. Bookmark site, start browsing. Anyways, once you have looked at the prototype for inspiration, start thinking about recreating one scene. Don't try to cram in 8-9 towns on two levels right away. Especially not if you want to run long trains. Pick one town - e.g. Crewe, if that should catch your fancy - it seems to be a town of moderate size, but where there was a yard and an icing house and a power house and RR maintenance buildings, ore trains passing through and what not - ie a place where switching took place. Try to imagine an operating scene consisting of "points west" (west staging) - Crewe - "points east" (east staging). Try to figure out (by googling, reading books, visiting the N&W historical society, whatever other way you can imagine) what kind of trains would come into Crewe from the east and what would happen with those trains in Crewe. Would they be freight trains pulling long blocks of cars for far destinations ? Would they be passenger trains ? Coal drags ? A small 0-8-0 local switcher handling local industries ? Would some trains just pass through ? Would some trains drop off a block of cars and continue going ? Would some trains originate or terminate in Crewe ? Would trains stop in Crewe to swap engines ? Would trains stop in Crewe to on coal or water ? Maybe you will decide that Crewe wasn't that interesting anyways. So pick another town to research and go look for information on that town. Look at pictures, decide what you like. Don't think "I will model the entire operation of many miles of railroad line, including 7 or 8 cities". You won't have space for everything. Pick one or a couple of scenes that inspire you and try to recreate the traffic that inspires you. You can always extend your layout later. Or scrap it and start over, once you know what you like. Anyways - there are *many* ways of getting started. Just pick one and try it out. If it doesn't work out, you can always backtrack and try something else instead. Good luck with your layout. Grin, Stein
rtprimusI am a HUGE fan of the N&WRR. Already been to see old 611 in person, and saw her as a boy on what I think was one of her last fan trips back in the late 80's or earlyer 90's. I live in the Petersburg Va area and want to model the line in that area. So, call the line from Crewe or so to the east... I am a N scale lover and belive that will give me the most for my room. I also live in a apartment so, I till have to be built to move. I also love steam so, mid 1950s if my time frame!!
Okay - typical start of basic research.
http://www.google.com
Enter search term NW 611 - okay, we learn that the 611 is streamlined 4-8-4 engine, used for passenger traffic, supplanted in the late 1950s by diesel passenger engines - EMD E6, E7, E8s.
So - do you want to model passenger traffic primarily, or primarily freight ?
Back to http://www.google.com
Look up "Norfolk and Western". Okay - there is a historical society for the Norfolk and Western, web address http://www.nwhs.org/ - they probably can offer advice on where to learn more about the N&W in the 1950s, Bookmark that one.
Click on various links on that web site - okay, they have an archive with lots of drawings and pictures. Located in Roanoke.
The website has a collection of links to other sites: http://www.nwhs.org/other_sites2.html
One of the links lead to Virginia Tech's image database: http://imagebase.lib.vt.edu/search.php
Let's try a few of the names you listed in another post
rtprimus So, here is the towns I am planing on starting from the west end to the east end of the run West Farmville, burkeville, Crewe, blackstone, Petersburg-Hopewell, Waverly, Wakefield, Sulfolk. Now, I know some of the stops, and what I can put or SHOULD put. Yard and roundhouse at Crewe, Fort Picket at Blackstone. Peanuts in Waverly/Wakefield. Im from Petersburg area, and know what I want there. But, the rest is blank for me.. My Goal is to be able to railfan the trans as they run, but also work the yard, and run trains to each town and switch they towns. I already know I am have to go with a 2 level layout...
So, here is the towns I am planing on starting from the west end to the east end of the run
West
Farmville, burkeville, Crewe, blackstone, Petersburg-Hopewell, Waverly, Wakefield, Sulfolk.
Now, I know some of the stops, and what I can put or SHOULD put. Yard and roundhouse at Crewe, Fort Picket at Blackstone. Peanuts in Waverly/Wakefield. Im from Petersburg area, and know what I want there. But, the rest is blank for me.. My Goal is to be able to railfan the trans as they run, but also work the yard, and run trains to each town and switch they towns. I already know I am have to go with a 2 level layout...
Okay, pick a town at random - Crewe. They have 63 historic images from Crewe, many of them showing railroad structures.
Here is one showing part of the yard at crewe on November 13th 1950: http://spec.lib.vt.edu/imagebase/norfolksouthern/full/nw864.jpg
There is another showing an icing house at Crewe - so Crewe had an icing house.
And so on and so forth.
Clicking on the "more information on picture", we learn that this picture is a part of a collection of Norfolk and Western pictures. Clicking on that link takes us to:
http://imagebase.lib.vt.edu/browse.php?folio_ID=/trans/nss
Lookie, lookie - about 10 000 historical Norfolk and Western photos. Bookmark site, start browsing.
Anyways, once you have looked at the prototype for inspiration, start thinking about recreating one scene. Don't try to cram in 8-9 towns on two levels right away. Especially not if you want to run long trains.
Pick one town - e.g. Crewe, if that should catch your fancy - it seems to be a town of moderate size, but where there was a yard and an icing house and a power house and RR maintenance buildings, ore trains passing through and what not - ie a place where switching took place.
Try to imagine an operating scene consisting of "points west" (west staging) - Crewe - "points east" (east staging).
Try to figure out (by googling, reading books, visiting the N&W historical society, whatever other way you can imagine) what kind of trains would come into Crewe from the east and what would happen with those trains in Crewe.
Would they be freight trains pulling long blocks of cars for far destinations ? Would they be passenger trains ? Coal drags ? A small 0-8-0 local switcher handling local industries ?
Would some trains just pass through ? Would some trains drop off a block of cars and continue going ? Would some trains originate or terminate in Crewe ? Would trains stop in Crewe to swap engines ? Would trains stop in Crewe to on coal or water ?
Maybe you will decide that Crewe wasn't that interesting anyways. So pick another town to research and go look for information on that town.
Look at pictures, decide what you like. Don't think "I will model the entire operation of many miles of railroad line, including 7 or 8 cities". You won't have space for everything. Pick one or a couple of scenes that inspire you and try to recreate the traffic that inspires you.
You can always extend your layout later. Or scrap it and start over, once you know what you like.
Anyways - there are *many* ways of getting started. Just pick one and try it out. If it doesn't work out, you can always backtrack and try something else instead.
Good luck with your layout.
steinjrrtprimus I mean, with the given space and the part of the line I am looking at, what would be the best use of space for the given shape of the room. Fairly standard N scale basic shelf layout with central peninsula in a 11 x 11 foot room, turnback curves having 12" radius (24" diameter), allowing 30" for main aisles. Room for quite a LDEs (Layout Design Elements - scenes based on prototype locations) that space. You would have at least 4 fairly large scenes that you can view independent of other scenes - left wall, right side of peninsula, left side of peninsule, right wall. Can be done in many other ways - but think scenes, not layout shape. First you decide what you want to depict, then you figure out how you can fit it into the room. Grin, Stein
rtprimus I mean, with the given space and the part of the line I am looking at, what would be the best use of space for the given shape of the room.
I mean, with the given space and the part of the line I am looking at, what would be the best use of space for the given shape of the room.
Fairly standard N scale basic shelf layout with central peninsula in a 11 x 11 foot room, turnback curves having 12" radius (24" diameter), allowing 30" for main aisles.
Room for quite a LDEs (Layout Design Elements - scenes based on prototype locations) that space. You would have at least 4 fairly large scenes that you can view independent of other scenes - left wall, right side of peninsula, left side of peninsule, right wall.
Can be done in many other ways - but think scenes, not layout shape. First you decide what you want to depict, then you figure out how you can fit it into the room.
In N scale, a 11'x12' room should offer adequate room for quite a layout. Have you considered a E shaped layout, with the two entrances facing the end branches. As I see it, Burkeville would be the hub on the central tail branch of the wye, with a connection between the branches of the wye going toward Wakefield, on the East and to Farmville to the West. The use of a wye will allow reversal of direction of trains.The town of Meherrin, looks like an interesting junction of several rail lines. It could be the junction of the two branches of the wye. A dogbone loop at the expanded end of each branch, would form a continuous loop with the loop on the center branch. This would give you a continuous mainline, which with reverse loop modules would require no attention. At present, I am in the process of making 300-400 trees using furnace filter circles, pushed onto stained parts of wooden skewers (sharpened on both ends) For the folliage, I spray the attached filters with adhesive, and then sprinkle on ground up green foam, ( of various shades of green), for Summer, or various Fall color foam. The trees can be removed and interchanged for a change of seasons. Stein's diagram is excellent. One could shorten the two outer branches to allow for easier room entrance. If the end of the central branch were expanded one could then expand the ends of the two outside branch ends. This would allow one to make the radius of the reverse loops considerably larger. The central branch backdrop could be shortened to allow for a staging yard, Connecting the two upper branches with a wye, would allow for reversal of direction. Or you could make this a double track loop layout for an extended mainline. (Not prototype, but "So What!" Include passing sidings of train length, to make running the railroad more interesting. It still could be an "unattended railfan" layout. Bob Hahn
ok, need to know a few things...
One, I am plaining on building a roundhouse/turntable for my main yard at Crewe Va. I am very much thinking of useing the newer walthers Cornerstone model. click here. Now, In N scale, turntable plus round house and the running shop.. here and say, a 6 stall roundhouse, how much room, X inches by X inches should I be giving myself..
Two, Even in the early stanges, I want to be able to run true N&W style steam power. J class, A class and Mallets types of trains. As well as 85' couches. What is the lowest curve raidi I can push these type of engines into, with easement add and still have it look ok....
Thanks, I have I think a few more question, but, I need those two answered first so I can ask the others HAHA.
I believe Walthers provides those dimensions. I have the turntable, which is 130 scale feet, which translates to 9-3/4" in diameter, plus about another inch for the lip of the pit. A general rule of thumb is the length of the bridge, the space between the center of the pit and the face of the round house, and the round house depth should all be roughly the same, but I'm not sure how far the Walthers modern roundhouse sits away from the pit. I'm not using the kit round house, but here's what I've got:
I suppose it's about 24" from the left edge of the pit to the end of the tail tracks on the right.
Check the dimensions of the Walthers kits. Shouldn't be too hard to find.
well, every know how ideas can come to you when you are not trying, like say, sitting on the can in the middle of the night, well, last night I had one of these.
First off, I would like to thank David Popp and his Naugatuck Valley RR for helping me. OK, I was reading over his book, "Building a Model Railroad. Step by Step" last night, and as I was looking at the track plan for the waterberry yard I said to myself, that could work for me. So, after playing with the tracks for a few hours I can up with this yard..
So, ideas and tips?
I have not heard any discussion of staging. It may be early in the process, but the designs and conversation have not mentioned it. Every few months a thread is started asking what you would have done differently. By far, the most common theme was I should have had or had more staging. Staging is what allows you to run like a railroad.
Chip
Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.
right now, I have not gotten to that part yet. I was saving that till a few steps down the road. I have always had a spot for crewe yard and wanted to get this nail nailed down first..
As I see it, its all down hill for me now.. Am I worng?
rtprimusSo, after playing with the tracks for a few hours I can up with this yard.. So, ideas and tips?
So, after playing with the tracks for a few hours I can up with this yard..
Good start - you have a nice scene there that will take about 1/3 of the wall space you have in your 11x11 room - ie - you have plenty of room for staging tracks (temporary or permanent) on both sides of this scene.
Some suggested minor modifications to make it easier to use:
Smile, Stein
thanks for the tip stein, but I have a griping tool that I got from my mother, you know the kind. Gives you about 2 feet of reach. That and I am planing on making the TT and house removeable if I need to get over there. Other then that, by my math, its only about a 1 1/2 reach.
rtprimus right now, I have not gotten to that part yet. I was saving that till a few steps down the road. I have always had a spot for crewe yard and wanted to get this nail nailed down first.. As I see it, its all down hill for me now.. Am I worng?
IMHO, you've jumped to details way before determining the overal configuraiton of the track plan. And in my mind, that's a much tougher way to go. Without knowing what the rest of the railroad will look like, it's really not possible to know if the current yard design will work or not as a model.
Stein pointed out some of the issues with the yard itself, and I agree. It's not clear whether you intend the stub-end track to be the yard lead, if so, it's too short and not connected correctly. If you intend the track below it to be the yard lead, then you need to rework the crossovers.
But I would be more concerned about the rest of the basic design than Stein is. You mentioned David Popp's Waterbury Yard, but I don't see a number of the key elements of his yard reflected in your current plan.
Without knowing what the rest of the layout looks like, and what will be done in this yard (making up locals, changing engines on through trains, handling interchange, etc., etc.), it's hard to know whether the yard will work or not. But the yard leads and classification tracks definitely seem short compared to the extent of the engine service faciltiies while the three double-ended runaround/utility tracks seem to be stealing length from the yard itself without adding much. And the crossings of the main to connect with the engine service area are not typically found on real yards. I am not familiar with the yard you are interested in from Virginaia, but I would be surprised if that was the configuration.
So I would suggest that you have the cart before the horse in designing this yard without knowing how it will fit in with the rest of the layout. And there are some basic model railroad yard design principles that should be applied to make it work better as a model.
ByronModel RR Blog Layout Design Gallery
Layout Design GalleryLayout Design Special Interest Group
At twelve inches, the turntable is about twice the size you'd need for N-scale. It will fit a lot of places if you make it the right diameter.
I know you are looking for a big yard and looking to represent the prototype.
So the question that I have is why are you limiting the bench size to 20" here. You can reach near 30". Why not increase that portion of the layout to accommodate.
SpaceMouse At twelve inches, the turntable is about twice the size you'd need for N-scale. It will fit a lot of places if you make it the right diameter.
Twice the size? Not really. As noted earlier in the thread, the Walthers 130ft turntable scales out to 9.75" and there's a lip around it, bringing the total size to near 11". If that's what he's planning to use, it's probably about the right size in the track plan.
rtprimus thanks for the tip stein, but I have a griping tool that I got from my mother, you know the kind. Gives you about 2 feet of reach.
thanks for the tip stein, but I have a griping tool that I got from my mother, you know the kind. Gives you about 2 feet of reach.
You probably mean gripping tool. Although a lot of forum members obviously have griping tools themselves.
In any case, that sounds like a recipe for a lot of broken details on models and not a good idea. Based on your drawing, it looks like more than three feet to the end of that far back track.
I would like to thank you all for the imput.
For the table size, its just there so I have a about idea of the space I have to work in. For making it bigger, I live in a appartment so, I realy dont have the space for much bigger.
The main line is a double track line, the two tracks closest to the bottom edge is the main, the next two are the inbound and outbound tracks.
I know I am out a lot of work into this part befoer the rest. I have a good idea of how I want to do the rest of the line, but this will make the 4 RR I have started in my life, never finished any of them. What I am aiming at is, to have a good starting point with the yard to just give the feeling of a bigger yard then it is. I am realy trying to catch the feeling of watching and seeing what the N&W was in its heyday. If and when I get a bigger space, I will be adding on and doing on changes to the yard. As for the yard on one side of the main and the TT and house on the other, thats one part of Crewe yard that IS true.
http://spec.lib.vt.edu/imagebase/norfolksouthern/full/nw864.jpg
The Yard is on the left side, the main is down the middle of the photo, and on the right side you can see the coal and watch towers with the leads to the TT/Round house just behind them. I am hoping to have more work on the lines planing done with in the next week. I have been holding off on doing more till I got this yard out of my mind.
This monkey has been on my back for going on 5 months to almost a year now. Glad he is off at last.....
rtprimus This monkey has been on my back for going on 5 months to almost a year now. Glad he is off at last.....
If you feel that drawing a plan that well may not work "gets the monkey off your back", then good luck.
rtprimusthanks for the tip stein, but I have a griping tool that I got from my mother, you know the kind. Gives you about 2 feet of reach. That and I am planing on making the TT and house removeable if I need to get over there. Other then that, by my math, its only about a 1 1/2 reach.
Sorry, but then your math is way off. If those distance squares are 12" big, and the yard is up against a corner, with the turntable in the inside curve of the corner, then it is about 3 feet from edge to yard tracks.
A gripping tool will help you in an emergency, but is not a tool for _normal_ operations. Yards should be within easy reach for normal operations.
Layout configuration with yard tracks on one side, arrival tracks and double track main in the middle and engine facilities on the right is indeed prototypical for Crewe, looking westwards from the eastern end of the yard. That is - railroad west is clockwise on your layout.
What is not prototypical (and what Byron commented on) is having the tracks leading to the engine facility cut across a double track main. At Crewe the track to the engine facility branched off the rightmost main.
Which means that for the prototype they probably had more crossovers outside your photo (behind the camera) and probably another set of such crossover on the far end of the yard, so an engine could get from the yard area over to the rightmost main in the photo, and thence to the engine facility.
If I recall correctly, Crewe was mainly a crew change/engine change facility, more than a place where classification/sorting of cars took place. How do you envision using the yard on your layout ?
As for a model railroad, modeling wide doesn't work well when you need to reach in. In your current plan you get double wide - first you put yard tracks all the way into the corner, and then you make the corner even deeper by adding the engine facility at the front.
I really think you should change this a bit - read on for some possible ideas.
If you look again at Lee's picture:
You will notice that he has arranged the tracks he need to reach easily closer to the edge, and put the turntable a little down one side, instead of putting the turntable right in the corner and making things very deep in that corner.
If you look at the yard by Guy (trainnut) in the thread "Operations or aesthetics", note that he does the same - he moved the turntable around the corner to a point where there isn't yard body tracks between the turntable and the wall:
Turntable is the white circle around the corner to the right. Guy also do has his yard body tracks running away from the corner.
If you look at the plan for David Popp's waterbury yard again, you will notice that his engine tracks branch off in the opposite direction than the yard body tracks, taking advantage of the fact that the yard is narrower on the end away from the yards body tracks.
Here is part of a sketch I drew for a friend - yard is based on same idea as David Popp's layout, except that this yard is at the end of the line, so the main line doesn't go on past the yard along the top of the layout.
I'd say you have at least three different ways to handle the engine facility on your plan:
1) Don't model the turntable and most of the engine facily - just the track leading towards it (terminated at the edge of the layout). Use a loco lift type of short train cassette to turn engines when necessary. Probably not a good option if your goal is to model just engine change/fueling/servicing operations, rather than light classification of cars.
2) Relocate the engine facility on your model railroad relative to the prototype.
E.g. curve the engine facility lead around the curve and put the engine facility a bit down along the right wall (like on the first two pictures above)
Or move the engine facility to branch off towards the left from the yard lead (like on David Popp's Waterbury yard).
3) Change mental orientation for your plan - making westwards counterclockwise instead of clockwise, tucking the engine facility into the upper right hand corner, and the yard tracks branching off towards the left, along the aisle on the upper wall benchwork.
Also - you could drop those single ended yard tracks and go full out for an engine terminal/engine change point, if that is what you want to model.
My comments, your layout, your choices.
rtprimus For the table size, its just there so I have a about idea of the space I have to work in. For making it bigger, I live in a appartment so, I realy dont have the space for much bigger.
Making one "table" 30 inches wide to help accomodate your yard instead of twenty doesn't impact the room nor the fact that it is an apartment one iota. It does however increase your options considerably.
ok, I have done some work and would like input. I moved the TT/Roundhouse. I can deal with the way the tracks cross over the main line. Besides I like it like that with out needing a more switches there and run the risk of a miss thown switch there. From table edge to back corner of the yard is just about 35in. In a pinch, I can stand that.
What do you think?
Ideas?
What's going to happen to your coaling/water tower when you reach back 35 inches?
Hi,
I've been a model railroader since the mid-50s and have recently started a new 11x15 room filling HO layout - a replacement for one that lasted 14 years. I did a huge amount of planning and drawings, and most of my ideas were from the previous layout and other experiences.
However, I got out my MR library of Kalmbach/Carstens layout design & planning books, as well as the Great Model RR books, and went over each of them. Surprisingly, some of the "new ideas" for my layout came from books printed in the '70s - over 30 years ago!
As I model the transition period, I tend to think that there really are no new design ideas for such a layout today, but there sure are a lot of old ones that were published back when the transition period was fresh in everyone's mind.
Hey, for what its worth!!!
Mobilman44
ENJOY !
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
SpaceMouse What's going to happen to your coaling/water tower when you reach back 35 inches?
That part I am working on. I was thinking about a pop up but the only space is 10 x 5 inches, YA, RIGHT! So, I think IF I have to reach that far, I am going to make both of them removeable.