I searched for articles in this forum to avoiud creating a new post, but couldn't find any. So here goes.
I boughh the Senior Twice Around layout package from Atlas. It has been a very good kit so far and has everyhting I need to get started, But, instead of pieces of terminal track, I was supplied with terminal joiners. I am guess they do the same thing.
1. Is my assumption correct?
I also read that you don't need to supply power to every "terminal" location on the track plan, that it's a matter of discretion, depending on the size of your layout.
2. Is this correct?
If anyone is aware of this layout, or can take a stab at this, how many terminal joiners (power connections) should I install? Also, how do you 1) properly connect the common rail and 2) the common power to remote switches? Just solder and tape the several wires together at a convenient place under the board? Can you use small wire nuts
Thanks for your help with these questions.
Mark
I am not able to help with the powered turnouts because I have no experience with them.
The terminal joiners may be wired to a power bus if you wish, but it isn't necessarily required for every one. You could easily get away with using a regular joiner between every second piece of track, and a terminal joiner otherwise. The terminal joiner, if soldered, would then guarantee power to each section it joins. Effectively, your entire railroad would be powered without fail. The only thing you would not want to do is to solder any turnouts in place...and that means the terminal joiners would be a good idea with the turnouts to maximize, but not guarantee, that each turnout gets power. The reason it isn't a guarantee is that a joiner is a joiner is a joiner. and unless they are soldered in place, they can fail to provide connectivity on either side of them.
There are two main problems and both potentially serious: mechanical failure of simple or terminal joiners to provide the power contintuity that they are meant to provide (corrosion, splayed enough that they are too loose, dirt/paint/glue that displaces the contact sufficiently), and voltage drop over distance. It might not be a show stopper with DC layouts because you can always dial in a certain amount of power until you max out. But DCC systems are meant to stay within a very narrow range of voltage all along the rail system. If a single feeder is all you have, or a single feeder of several is the only one mechanically sound and doing its job, the voltage further away will necessarily drop, thus disrupting the signal-to-noise ratio beyond a certain threshold. While voltage is very important in DCC operations, the signal loss is a show stopper. No signal...no fun!
All this to say that you should be cautious on the side of providing too many terminal joiners or feeder wires to the rails than not enough as a general way of leaning. We don't want to spend a lot of time and effort, or bucks, soldering stuff unecessarily, but it is best to err on the side of covering your butt.
-Crandell
wingmanI also read that you don't need to supply power to every "terminal" location on the track plan, that it's a matter of discretion, depending on the size of your layout.
Maybe, maybe not. One piece of the equation is whether you want to run two or more trains at once and if you are planning for DC or DCC.
I'm not familiar with that layout, but there are probably some track segments that need to be isolated from others to avoid shorts. If you are using DC, you'll also need to create enough isolated segments of the layout to allow the two trains to operate without colliding or losing control by running into a section controlled by the other power pack. A third possible reason for these isolated sections is a reversing loop or cutoff where the train can turn around and head in the opposite direction. These isolated segments are called "blocks" and the two rails of each block must be provided power independently through a terminal section, terminal joiners, or soldering wire directly to the rail.
DCC simplifies block wiring tremendously, but usually does not completely eliminate the need to create isolated segments of track.
So the track diagram probably shows places where you need to insert insulated rail joiners (to create the "blocks") and the track power feeds to power the resulting blocks. Some you may be able to eliminate (especially with DCC), some you may not, depending on the track configuration and even the type of turnouts (track switches) you are using. Sorry the answer is not simple. If Atlas included a wiring diagram that shows blocks and feeders, that's probably the "safest" choice, but there may be alternatives if you wish to learn a little more about wiring.
So the first questions are: DC or DCC? More than one train at a time?
ByronModel RR Blog
Layout Design GalleryLayout Design Special Interest Group
I found a low-quality diagram of the layout on the web and it appears that it will be a bit challenging to run two trains at once in any case because of the level crossing (if that is a crossing). Still, you'll need some gaps where the frog ends of turnouts face each other, at least. And creating some blocks where you can stop a train and power-off the track would at least allow you to run two different trains one-at-a-time from siding to siding.
Unfortunately, this is not Atlas' most flexible track plan offering, but hopefully it will give you an introduction to the hobby.
Below is a paste of the layout. The only reason I am asking my questions is that I didn't know if terminal joiners are an alternative to terminal track, which has terminals bulit into the side of the track. From what I am reading so far, they are one and the same.
Also, in my Atlas beginners guide, and in some other model railroad blogs, I've read where you don't need to apply power to every block or every spot recommended in a layout. I do have insulated rail joiners located where specified by the layout plans. But, there seems to be some difference of opinion on the need to hook up power to every block. Any more thoughts?
On the connections from the terminal joiners, they all eventually end up at one place. Is it ok to connect them all in the middle of the layout (underneath of course), and then just send a main pair of wires to the power pack? This is being hooked up for DC operation right now. I'm too new and without close help to venture into DCC just yet.
So, with this information, can I have some further input? Thanks a bunch, folks, You're the best!
wingman Below is a paste of the layout. The only reason I am asking my questions is that I didn't know if terminal joiners are an alternative to terminal track, which has terminals bulit into the side of the track. From what I am reading so far, they are one and the same.
Yes, one and the same.
wingman Also, in my Atlas beginners guide, and in some other model railroad blogs, I've read where you don't need to apply power to every block or every spot recommended in a layout.
Also, in my Atlas beginners guide, and in some other model railroad blogs, I've read where you don't need to apply power to every block or every spot recommended in a layout.
Every block will need a power feed, because they are isolated from the rest of the track. That's the definition of "block".
I think what you may be referring to is people discussing whether it is necessary to feed every piece of rail, or whether the joiners are sufficient to carry the voltage from track section to track section. Many folks who have operated layouts for a long time have found that the joiners become a little loose and may need to be soldered down the road, so they just take the extra step up front to provide extra wire feeds or solder some joiners.
wingman On the connections from the terminal joiners, they all eventually end up at one place. Is it ok to connect them all in the middle of the layout (underneath of course), and then just send a main pair of wires to the power pack?
If your intention is to only ever to have one powered train on the layout at a time, yes, you could tie them all together in the middle of the layout. But that limits your future use of the layout with more than one train and makes trouble shooting much, much harder should you make a mistake somewhere along the way (as we all do).
In the end, following the Atlas diagram will be the safest, as I mentioned earlier. Any time you save by taking shortcuts in wiring now may be lost in trouble shooting later (and then some).
Best of luck with your layout.
I would strongly recommend bringing each track feeder to a single point, not UNDER the layout (unless you enjoy playing coal miner) but at the EDGE of the layout. Provide each with its own, labeled, terminal - which may be something as simple as a wood screw driven into a piece of plywood or pine. For now, you can simply run a jumper across all the terminals for the common rail and connect the control rail terminals to whatever power switches Atlas has provided. Later, as your understanding of the electricals changes, having each feeder on a separate terminal will make electrical modifications a lot simpler and less painful.
My homemade terminal blocks consist of machine screws secured to plywood (or thick styrene) with nuts, with the wires stacked on the resultant stud (with washers between) and secured by a second nut. The result is bulletproof in operation at the expense of being a little more labor intensive up front.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
Can you post some pictures of your idea, Chuck? It sounds interesting!
Thank you for your advice. I really like your idea.
I agree with the above posts.
Whether you plan to use DC or DCC, I would divide your layout into blocks as I've shown below and attach feeder wires in the middle of each of the curves, in the middle of the two straights (yes, between the turnouts), and to each of the two sidings.
In the beginning, if you want to run only one train at a time, you can connect the feeders from all the "inside" rails together and the feeders from all the "outside" rails together, and then to a single controller.
Later on you may wish to be able to park a train on one part of the layout and run another one on another part. If you are using DC, then you can put an on-off switch into the feeders from each block and control each block separately, if only one at a time.
If you want to run two trains at a time with DC, you can connect each block to the two sides of a dual controller using double-pole-double-throw-center-off switches.
OTOH, if you plan to use DCC, you still need the insulated joints where I've shown them to keep the turnouts from shorting the track they are not switched to, unless you buy turnouts that accomplish the same purpose. In the DCC case you can omit the electrical switches in the feeders and run as many trains as you have controllers for.
Oops! In my "modified" diagram there need to be insulated joints on the "normal" branches of the two turnouts going to the sidings. This will prevent the turnouts from shorting the main line when they are switched to the sidings. Sorry for that.