Can the Blue Points even be electrically operated? I'm sort of interested in them but from the descriptions it sounds like they have terminals so they ROUTE power only, not BE powered. I sort of want a switch machine that can be manual or powered, but I don't want to use something like the big black n' ugle Atlas snap switches. I want them under table and hidden. I've also been having the discretion with using code 80 or code 55 track. I prefer the 55 track, but the LTS I go to doesn't have much in stock. They stock Atlas flex in both, and I know they have Peco 55 on hand but the only switches they have out on display are Peco's, although they do have 55 and 80. I need to stop there tonight to see what kind of Peco's they have, it may change my track plan a bit.
I'm glad you found your solution. Keep at it and remember to have fun
Peace
Ray
If you want the quick & dirty aka cheap way out fashion yourself a push stick of some sort and just us it to throw to turnout. I used a modified version of Andy's method to install tortoise sw. machines on my engine serving facility module that is 48x120" instead of using a fostner bit I used my dremel equipped with a router bit and a stop collar so I would not break through and destroy the turnout. It was as close to torture as I would ever care to get. after doing three switches over the course of about 3.5 hours I gave up. I recall reading in MR about a switch machine by Cypress Engineering. The Flea. Now I don't want to sound liek thier salesmen but I ordered up two just to see how they worked and soon after installing the two and setting up the decoders etc. I placed an order for the remainder of the switches to be replaced. They are not inexpensive but with the sw. machine motor and the stationary decoder in place as one unit when you factor in all the costs plus the labor to mount them under the table etc. I feel they are well worth the money.All you need to do is drill a small hole for the wiring and replace the new Flea where the Peco resided.
I would be curious as to hear what Andy thinks about The Flea hios opinion carries a lot of weight on my rairoad.
After cogitating on all your suggestions, I decided to look for the couple of Blue Point turnout controllers I had bought some years ago. I measured the length of the accentuating arm from the top of the controller (where it is to be fastened to the underside of the plywood base) to its tip. It is 2 5/16" [6.1 cm) long. I figure the entire thickness of the plywood + Styrofoam to be 1" [2.5 cm]. This means that the arm, on the Blue Point controller, is more than long enough to do the job.
I shy away from the Tortoise machine because of the spring tension in the Peco turnouts (the only way to remove/modify the spring is to remove the turnout...what I was trying to avoid in the first place). Oddly, the very feature I like about the Peco turnouts (good pressure against the stock rails = excellent electrical conductivity and reliability) has come back to bite me. Subscribing to the KISS principle, the design of the Blue Point machine intrigues me (more so now that the company produces cable kits to work them). The Peco machine will require turnout removal - putting me right back where I was when I started this thread.
It seems the best course of action is to just be more careful with my fingers (it certainly would be the cheapest). Excepting for more manual dexterity; I think I will try to drill up from the bottom of the layout and see if I am successful (I have extra Peco turnouts in case the worst happens).
Thanks guys...I think we have answered my question.
"Keeping my hand on the throttle...and my eyes on rail."
We had this discussion a few weeks ago:
http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/t/145473.aspx
I checked it, because I remember measuring the Peco machine, and just didn't remember the result. The machine is 1 1/4 inches tall, and you could probably trim the extension of the throwbar a bit off the bottom without losing anything.
The extension below the machine, by the way, is designed to attach to the Peco SPDT contact set, which can be used to drive signals or provide indicator lights. It's an extra gadget that will cost you a few dollars, but it will extend the depth of the machine assembly as well.
It would be close, but I think you can mount the machine directly to the turnout base with 1-inch foam plus 1/4-inch roadbed, if you clip of the pin extension on the bottom. That, of course, means that you'll have to remove the turnout.
Another option would be to use a hole saw, about 2 1/2 inches across, and cut through the wood below the turnout. Then you could use a knife to cut the foam, and do the operation from beneath. It's going to be very hard to line up the pins and throwbar with the turnout from below, though, maybe requiring two people.
The other thing we discussed in that other thread was manual operation of the turnouts. Since you're used to doing this, you may be influenced by Peco's ability to let you throw the turnout by hand, just by flipping the points over. If you use a Tortoise or other stall-motor system, you will have to throw the turnout electrically from now on. With the Peco machines, you will still have a choice.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
When you want to get some help, or opinions, on something...try the Forum! I sincerely appreciate you assistance and will carefully weigh all your suggestions. As I see it, I have a few options:
Since Peco springs are rather stout, I would probably have to remove the turnouts - then remove the turnout springs. I don't know if the Blue Point manual machine has the torque to overcome the Peco spring tension. I have noticed that Peco now offers a DCC friendly switch motor with an extended arm (perhaps some research will reveal how long this arm will be). The layout sub base is 1/2" plywood that is covered with 1" insulating (blue) foam.
Thanks,
Peco turnouts present a special problem. They are designed with internal springs, which I believe you can only get to from the underside of the turnout. The little springs are what keep the points so nicely agains the stock rails. Unfortunately, they match up well with Peco switch machines, and no others. The recommended practice if you plan to use Tortoise machines is to remove the springs - before you lay the track.
How is your layout constructed? How thick is your base? Peco does make a special model of their switch machine with an extended throw bar, but it still only comes up about an inch, so if you've got more than a 3/4 inch base (plus about a quarter-inch for roadbed) then this option might not work for you. You might be able to extend the throw bar even more by adding some brass tubing over it, but if it gets too long, you'll introduce springiness in the throw bar that might not work too well.
If your layout is on foam, you can probably cut out the space under the points, attach the switch machine and then cover over the hole. The latest MR has a little how-to article about how to make an appropriate cover plate for covering over just such a hole. In plywood, though, it's going to be almost impossible to make a cut like that without destroying the turnout.
My suggestion, I'm afraid, is to use a Dremel cutoff wheel to cut the rails, then you can hopefully slide a knife under the turnout and release the glue and ballast. Depending on how you put it down, soaking it in water for a while might loosen the glue. It's not going to be an easy job, though.
If you use something like Tortoise motors, you don't have to drill down directly under the turnout - you can drill a small hole a coupel of ties away and fashion a linkage sort of liek an upside-down J. A hole can be put in the throwbar fairly easily without damaging the turnout. The short leg on the end of the J goes in this hole, the long end goes down through the table. Depending on what might be in the way, you can put a 90 degree bend in the wire udnerneath in any direction, put a loop on it, and mate that with the Tortoise throw wire. Sort of a simplified description but there are various similar ways of doing this out there. One was from a Lionel Strang article in MR, Simplified Tortoise Linkage or something was the title.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
If you were to add switch motors after the installation, you should drill DOWN! Drilling up, you could miss, and destroy some scenery, your roadbed, or the switch itself.
Select a drill bit equal size (or smaller) to the hole you would put the throw rod in. Drill from the switch down through your table. Make sure that you go straight down, because if you go diagonal, it will mess you up later. After you break through, get a larger bit, a little larger than the rod, and drill up, making sure that you follow the hole you made earlier. Stop before you hit the switch, and take a measurement, of the distance between the thickness of the board, and how far you drilled up. Do this until you reach the top. It shouldn't be hard, but it is a little time consuming. Good luck.
CNE Runner It was suggested to drill the hole next to the throw bar and attach the switch machine to the turnout that way...how would I disguise such a hole?
It was suggested to drill the hole next to the throw bar and attach the switch machine to the turnout that way...how would I disguise such a hole?
You can't really disguise it, but you can do it that way.
When under-the-table slow-motion switch machines came along, a lot of guys installed them to existing layouts (or even new ones) by drilling a hole between the ties a couple of ties away from the throwbar, and connecting a heavy bent wire as essentially a crank attached to the throwbar. The hole and the wire are visible - if you look at old model railroad layout pics from say the 70's-80's you'll see them quite clearly - but the turnouts will work fine. Painting the wire will help, sometimes the hole can be partially filled in with something like green lichen or something similar that will allow the wire to pivot.
Andy Sperandeo MODEL RAILROADER Magazine
I have been running my layout for some time without the use of switch machines. All my turnouts are Peco Code 75 Electrofrog units. As I add scenery and structures, it is getting harder and harder to throw the turnouts - by hand (or actually finger) - without occasionally causing minor damage. Therefore, I would like to add either Peco, Blue Point or Tortoise switch machines. The problem is that I have not drilled an appropriate hole underneath the turnout prior to installing the trackwork.
My question is: Is it possible to add the throw-rod hole without taking up the turnouts? What procedure would you recommend so that I don't damage the turnout itself (which probably would happen if I drill UP from the bottom of the layout). It was suggested to drill the hole next to the throw bar and attach the switch machine to the turnout that way...how would I disguise such a hole?
Lots of questions and few answers. I appreciate any assistance.