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L girder or free grid

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  • Member since
    March 2014
  • 82 posts
Posted by tony22 on Saturday, January 31, 2009 9:40 PM

Wow. There wouldn't happen to be any pictures showing this in framework stages by any chance? It sounds like one sweet piece of work.

  • Member since
    February 2005
  • From: Southwest US
  • 12,914 posts
Posted by tomikawaTT on Saturday, January 31, 2009 8:33 PM

tony22

Chuck, that's a lot of great info. I've been thinking about this very thing for my new layout. In my case I'd like to make it comprised of three sections/modules. This will make it easier to move if that day ever comes, without having to destroy a whole lot. In this case I figured frame would be better. But I intended to have a "sublevel" of staging, a main level, and then an upper level branch. It sounds like you believe L-girder is better suited to that kind of pike. But can it be done using L and still be sectional?

My layout is a 16 by 19+ foot double garage filler, built not so much in sections as in chunks:

  • 2 tables, maximum dimensions 5 x 11 feet.
  • 2 'shelf' assemblies 2 (Maximum) feet by 14 feet.
  • 1 long table, 32 inches by 19+ feet, separates into two unequal length pieces for removal.
  • Assorted connectors, each fitting inside a 3 foot square box (except for one yard throat, which is about 4 feet by 2 feet.)

The whole assembles into a well-folded dogbone shape, with aisleways ranging from 24 to 32 inches wide.  Each major chunk has at least two levels of track.  One of the big tables has four.

This is actually my 'last in this lifetime' layout, since my next move (decades hence, I hope) will be to a National Cemetary.  The disassembly points are identified in my benchwork folder, which will be available to the executor of my estate.

Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - for the forseeable future)

  • Member since
    March 2014
  • 82 posts
Posted by tony22 on Saturday, January 31, 2009 6:26 PM

Chuck, that's a lot of great info. I've been thinking about this very thing for my new layout. In my case I'd like to make it comprised of three sections/modules. This will make it easier to move if that day ever comes, without having to destroy a whole lot. In this case I figured frame would be better. But I intended to have a "sublevel" of staging, a main level, and then an upper level branch. It sounds like you believe L-girder is better suited to that kind of pike. But can it be done using L and still be sectional?

  • Member since
    February 2005
  • From: Southwest US
  • 12,914 posts
Posted by tomikawaTT on Saturday, January 31, 2009 10:59 AM

Both L girder and rectangular (or rhomboid) grid have legitimate places, as does a flat plank on shelf brackets (my now-29 year old 'end of the railroad' module resembles that!)  I think the choice should be driven by what the track and scenery plan require.

  • Prairie scenery, water courses few and shallow, thick foam tabletop - go grid.
  • Countryside stands on edge, two levels of hidden track below the visible - L girder, hands down.
  • Finish like fine furniture - could be either, but grid has an edge.
  • Fascia follows the bank of a mountain river or meandering stream - L girder.
  • Minimum use of materials, non-precision carpentry - L girder.
  • Thickness of basic benchwork - my L girder is about 2 inches thicker than a comparable grid.
  • Ease of adjustment when a joist is in the way of a switch machine or turnout pit - L girder.
  • Use of non-standard (and even junk) materials - L girder joists can be made out of anything!

Connecting different framing systems is simply a matter of arranging suitable splice or gusset plates.  If the new L girders don't line up with the old end joist or header of the existing grid, the cure is as simple as a couple of vertical pieces of angle iron and some quarter-inch bolts.  If the new L girder tops are at the level of the grid's bottom, all that is needed is a couple of vertical screws through the L-girder caps from underneath.

One thing that I am doing with L girder that standard grid won't allow - I have hidden thoroughfare trackage below the joists, between the girders, three quarters of the way around my layout space.

Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - on steel stud C- acts like L-girder benchwork)

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: Southeast Texas
  • 5,447 posts
Posted by mobilman44 on Saturday, January 31, 2009 7:45 AM

Hi!

L girder is fine, but IMHO, not for all circumstances.  My 15 year old layout (I just took down) used a combination of a grid of 2x2 legs and 1x2 and 1x4 lateral and horizontal supports, with a 1/2 inch ply surface.  It was extremely strong, and the new layout will use the same construction method. 

As long as you can attach both types of construction securely, and they "do the job", then you are doing just fine.   Frankly - and this will probably rub some folks the wrong way - there is just no method of doing almost anything in our hobby that works for all situations or is "second to none".  Model railroaders are innovators, and again, IMHO, the end justifies the means.

ENJOY,

Mobilman44 

ENJOY  !

 

Mobilman44

 

Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central 

  • Member since
    March 2007
  • 38 posts
Posted by Calflash on Saturday, January 31, 2009 7:30 AM

I used L-girder because I felt it was more suited to my layout: grid might be better for others. L-girder more easily allows for a irregular front of the layout merely by using different sized joists. In my case that was important to widen the isle in spots of anticipated operator locations. I also liked the strength and use of fewer legs but mine is tied to the wall which helps. If you have (or get the demo of) 3dPlanIt you can see the benchwork layer of my layout:  http://home.comcast.net/~jerryglow/files/MP_NeelySub.3pi

 Cal

http://home.comcast.net/~jerryglow/

  • Member since
    June 2003
  • From: Culpeper, Va
  • 8,204 posts
Posted by IRONROOSTER on Saturday, January 31, 2009 7:09 AM

 L girder is designed for fairly easy construction by people with few woodworking tools and skills.  It's not necessarily better or worse than other techniques.  An advantage is being able to easily put the girders at angles and add more or move them.  Some disadvantages are less usable space under the layout for storage, workbench, etc and less portability.  As long as you have a solid connection between them, joining L girder to other bench work requires no special section.

I would use whichever method best suits your needs.  Personally, I use a grid because I need the space under the layout.

Enjoy

Paul

If you're having fun, you're doing it the right way.
  • Member since
    February 2005
  • From: Vancouver Island, BC
  • 23,330 posts
Posted by selector on Saturday, January 31, 2009 12:58 AM

I don't know that the two are mutually exclusive.  The L girders don't have to be parallel, nor do they have to be the same length.  As for "free", the joists atop L-girders are meant to be placed, and oriented, relative to the girders as one needs them to be.  If you feel like experimenting, you could try the L-girders this time and see how it goes, even if just for the experience.  Chances are that, with the girders fastened to an end main joist, and the joist fastened with lag bolts to an adjoining old frame member, from the existing layout, you can add on quite easily.

My thoughts.

-Crandell

  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: Peotone, IL
  • 71 posts
L girder or free grid
Posted by train_frk-0079 on Saturday, January 31, 2009 12:47 AM

Along with completly rebuilding my whole layout, I thought that I would add on a section of track.  I built my original section on free grid, but since then, I have been told that L girder is better.  Should I keep it free grid to match the other section, or change it to L girder over the add on.

If I go with the L girder, is there anything that I would have to do special to join them?  Do I just bolt them together, or do I have to run a transition bench?  Sound off

Peace

Peace and love is all this world needs!! Ryan

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