I am fairly new to this hobby, really a model car builder but I have ben wanting to get into trains for quite some time now. I recently purchased the train set I wanted. It's a Rapido VIA-Rail Turbo Train. It has 9 cars and requires a minimum 24" radius. My question is with al 9 cars will this radius be large enuff to look realistic or should I go with say a 28" or 30" radius when I build my track? I also wanna add a TGV Train at a later date so I kinda plan on having 2 tracks meet as one. What would be the best way to approach such a curve, Super Flex track? I plan on using Atlas HO code 83 track as well but they have no fixed curve pieces that are larger than 24". If 24" curve looks realistic with this train then the problem is solved I guess lol. Thanks for your time and help!
Set up is going to be in a basement area so space really isnt an issue for me.
Bigger the better, unless it cramps aisles or terribly limits operations. The plan for my bedroom-sized layout has a minimum standard of 30". That's barely adequate for most articulated locomotives, brass 2-10-2s, and full length passenger cars. I wish I could afford curves of at least 42" radius. But that's not practical and am forced to compromise. If you've got a whole basement, you can do better than I. Five times the maximum length of any rolling stock would be an ideal minimum radius. You'll probably want to compromise too.
Mark
I really dont wanna use the whole basement though lol. Just enuff to make it look somewhat realistic and keep it from derailing alot.
Is it possible to use Bachman EZ Track for my curves (they make a 33" radius curve) and connect to Atlas True Track straight pieces?
Maybe I should just use Bachmann EZ Track all the way around? Does it come apart from its premade ballast? I kinda wanted to make my own ballast but if EZ track works just as good as True track then I may just use it all the way around since I know they make the curves I need. Any input on them?
My layout is all EZ-Track with 18" radius curves. There are those who will tell you that you can't ballast EZ-Track and make it look good just as there are those who say it doesn't work well. It's been my experience that many of them didn't really try or went in with a preconceived notion that they could just plop it down and it would work. Here are a few photos of what I did with mine:
On the question of radius, the bigger the better. I made mine 18" because of space constraints. If you have the space you can go as big as the size of the track sections allow you to go. I think the biggest radius in nickel-silver EZ-Track is 35.5" (HO Scale). This would give you a circle of 71" from track center to track center or 73" from one side to the other (in HO).
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jeffrey-wimberly
Looks good, I can't even tell that that is EZ-Trak, let alone sectional track!
On the question of radius, mine is 18" because of space restraints, but I seriously wish it was larger, especially since I like to run 80' passenger cars. As was previously stated, bigger is better. But, if you want passenger, you might want to limit the radii at 22". I wish I would have.
MadSinger
Bachmann's EZ-Track is a generally good product, but their turnouts are often not good...they need a lot of work. If you elect to mix other types of turnouts with EZ-Track, you'll have more work getting them to match at the rail head...more work supporting them with roadbed of the correct thickness.
If you use EZ-Track in quantity, and then ballast over the plastic fake ballast, isn't that like buying a car and repainting it? There's another one right next to it in the colour you desire! A lot of money down the drain if you ask me.
Wider curves, no matter what track you end up using, is always the best rule if you have the room. It just runs and looks better, although it could get a bit ridiculous if one wanted to be close to the real world railroad's radii...you'd need radii near 8'. So, the hobby is about give and take...give up some realism, but get the nice track design you want with a loop for continuous running if you just want to sip a coffee and admire your trains. I would think 30-35" is generous for all but the stiffest brass engines. You would probably find happiness with curves down near 24", but the closer you get to the stated minimums for the equipment, the more adept you must be at laying smooth and consistent tracks.
EZ is just that...easy. It takes all the skill out of it, but not all the learning. You also get the fake ballast that even I ended up covering with a light layer of sand in an earlier experiment.
So, you have a decision or two.....
That track looks wonderful jeffrey-wimberly!
So after taking a few measurements of my area I find that I can accomodate 28-35" curves with no probs. The minimum requirement being 24" for my train, I decided to go with 30" as my nominal radii. After the "get the car painted twice" post I thought about it and thats exactly what I was doing lol. I decided I really wanna use the Atlas HO code 83 nickel silver track so I can make my ballst myself and to avoid the turnout probs with mixing pieces as mentioned earlier. I'm back to "How can these curves be done with Atlas track?" Can Flex track be used without doing a bunch of soldering? (I do not know how to solder lol) Thats one reason I kinda wanted to use sectional precurved pieces but I do have an older brother who is an electrician and I could get him to solder for me. It may just be better for me to run the premade Atlas 24" curve sections and shorten my train from 9 cars to say 6 or 7. I was thinking I could start off with 24" then upgrade later but I believe in planning it all out and doing it right the 1st time lol. This so different than customizing model cars lol! Thanks for everyone's responses as well! They are all very helpful to me. This may be yet another lifelong hobby along with music production, model cars, and oh yes, I build the real full sized lowriders as well ;)
RAGTOPROY(I do not know how to solder lol)
It takes about 3 minutes to learn and is a valuable skill you can use elsewhere on the layout. Have your brother show you how to do it.
Midnight Railroader RAGTOPROY(I do not know how to solder lol) It takes about 3 minutes to learn and is a valuable skill you can use elsewhere on the layout. Have your brother show you how to do it.
Yupper! I was a retired military psychologist when I took up the hobby. How much soldering do they do?! No, I had to read, think, form some mental images, buy what I had read would be needed, and began to sweat through a couple of practise sessions. Now, I listen to the radio, think about getting out for a run, or do any number of mental exercises while I solder...it just becomes like pencil sharpening....honestly.
We can talk you through both measuring, cutting, and soldering into sections the flextrack way. You'll have to practise a couple of times on a bench, and then, when you stand back you'll say to yourself, "That's it?" Yup, that's pretty much it, except now you'll have to reach further, crouch, bend over, look up to solder feeder wires, and do other gymnastics that will keep you challenged and engaged. It's what comprises the fun of beating physics to force your trains to run well.
You'll need, depending on the hobbyist who responds to the question of soldering, 25-100 watt-variable watt - restistance soldering equipment...there are so many ways to solder it isn't funny. Skill helps, but so do discipline, determination, and calmness. They can all be learned.
My experience is to use the finest (thinnest) resin core 60/40 solder you can buy, nothing higher than 35 watts, a pencil type, with a fine pointed tip or a small, thin blade tip, and some paste flux (I use acid, but many shake their heads, especially the aircraft high-reliability soldering experts). Heat up the iron for about five minutes, keep a roll of paper towel handy to wipe the hot tip thoroughly from black carbon, and keep the tip tinned (covered). Also, dip the tip in the paste flux every once in a while...just the quickest dip in and out you can do. Wipe it again. Tin it again. Then solder your wires that have been clamped into place with metal tiny clamps that also act as heat sinks to prevent the rails from melting the plastic ties if you are slow and inexperienced.
I don't want to go on at length at this point...just to give you a brief synopsis. It is quick work, and most effective for keeping positive electrical contact to the rails with thin wire feeders.
Midnight Railroader RAGTOPROY(I do not know how to solder lol) My experience is to use the finest (thinnest) resin core 60/40 solder you can buy, nothing higher than 35 watts, a pencil type, with a fine pointed tip or a small, thin blade tip, and some paste flux (I use acid, but many shake their heads, especially the aircraft high-reliability soldering experts). Heat up the iron for about five minutes, keep a roll of paper towel handy to wipe the hot tip thoroughly from black carbon, and keep the tip tinned (covered). Also, dip the tip in the paste flux every once in a while...just the quickest dip in and out you can do. Wipe it again. Tin it again. Then solder your wires that have been clamped into place with metal tiny clamps that also act as heat sinks to prevent the rails from melting the plastic ties if you are slow and inexperienced.
You lost me right there lol. This sounds like fun though. I think i will get my bro to come show me how its done really soon. I feel embarrassed lol, being as I can spot weld metal on a 64 Impala but can't solder lol :-) So... I would need to lay the flex track straight first and solder the track rails together as 1 long strip then I would be able to bend the track to the appropriate curve? I also plan on going DCC. Soldering the track rails should allow current to travel thru the rails correct?
Thanks again markpierce! that article you sent me about curve radii was very informative. After doing the calculations I now see that I will need at least a 35" radius curve to make the layout look realistic from both inside and outside of the curve while functioning correctly. Why did I choose such a long train!?? LOL. I have decided to sorta copy a layout from Atlas (The Junior Pretzel) and simply try to upgrade the curve radii. Now I guess I can finally start purchasing the track. Think I should buy that "Junior Pretzel" layout kit and some flex track as a starting point and simply start adding more pieces as I see necessary?
Opinions are like a certain part of the anatomy - everyone has one - but some are more valid than others. Selector made some very good points. The EZ track, although used by some, is less than ideal. If you are going to use Atlas code 83 tirnouts, why not use Atlas code 83 flextrack. If for no other reason, the 3' long sections require feweer joints, and joints and switches are the two places that trackwork can cause derailments!! My
RAGTOPROYI can spot weld metal on a 64 Impala but can't solder
Soldering is substantially easier than spot welding.
You don't necessarily want to solder every rail joint. And for the best conductivity, add feeder wires to each 3-foot section of rail (some people do it much less frequently, but this way is bulletproof).
The feeder wirewould need to be soldered as well, correct?
Correct, unless you wnat to use a terminal track in each section.
Joiners fail. Maybe not this year, but next for sure. I used to resist that dogma because mine worked well, but as I get along in the hobby I am beginning to appreciate that many of the tips are direct kindnesses passed on to those who will listen.
Any two pieces of rail attached for electrical purposes (let's forget about joiners also keeping rail ends in alignment....and they do it darned well!) by the use of joiners are going to be separated electrically before too many months have passed. And that's on clean rail and joiners....no sprays, paints, oopses. If you ballast and weather your tracks, and don't have soldered joiners, or feeders to each section of rail (one or the other, nothing else), you can expect to have trouble-shooting sessions when you had looked forward to an afternoon of running trains. Been there.
The reasons are two: almost none of us can lay perfect roadbed with perfect track resting on the perfect roadbed. There are minor flaws here and there. These flaws under joints connected by free-sliding joiners will get stressed as heavy locos pass over them. In time, they weaken and you begin to get sudden stops when the continuity between two pieces of rail breaks intermittently. In other words, the joints flex. Or, if you paint up your rails so that they don't look like nickel silver hobby tracks, some of that paint helps to corrode the joiners where they are meant to contact the rail feet. More intermittent problems.
The surefire solution is to join two pieces of rail with a joiner, and then solder a feeder to that joiner, while at the same time fillling the joiner, itself with solder. Now you have two three-foot lengths of rail that will get power, every time. You can use sliding joiners on both joins on either side of this newly soldered one and you'll get the alignment without the electrical headaches....because the next ones over yet again will have the soldered feeder and joiner linking them.
Think: x_____________________=______________________x____________________=_____________
where the = is a free sliding joiner and the x is a soldered one. You can see that, logically, no one segment will ever be devoid of power.
Thanks selector for explaining that so vividly I get it now (big smile). And thanks to evryone else as well! Your comments are very helpful and deeply appreciated!
I finally picked a layout that i like as well. I saw an Atlas layout named "The Junior Pretzel" that I would like to try and reproduce on a larger scale with the larger curves and make the entire layout longer width-wise and length-wise. I believe its Layout #07.
I also plan to make the straights at the top continue as 2 separate tracks rather than have them verge into 1 as the layout does. I plan to have that section elevated with a bridge over a river or lake (the tracks would begin their elevation on the far-right side shortly after where the track breaks off into 2 separate tracks-before the upper-handcurve). I want a mountain scene (tunnel) covering about 3/4ths of the curve on the opposite left-hand side. This curve will have the incline back down to ground level. That "almost circle" in the middle is going to have the 35" radii curve while the others will probably have to be somewhat larger I'm thinking.
Question...should I (OPTION A) start off with the kit (which cost about $200 usd-not cheap lol) and add additional straight and flex track pieces? Or....(OPTION B) theres a guy on craigslist here in town selling like 130 new and used 9' straight pieces for like $70 that i could buy. He is also throwing in new joiners. I could then just go buy the flex track?
From looking at the 2 places where the track abruptly ends, I would say it should be pretty expandable? - as in the future I'm sure me and my son will want to continue adding to it. Who knows, it just may end up taking all of the basement by the time I'm 50 lol (I turn 35 this friday)
Ragtop, it is now to think about the part of the basement that will be the train section. First I, well we all want big turns, but there is a down side to big turns when it comes to the track plan and how the bench will sit in the room.
RAGTOPROYThat "almost circle" in the middle is going to have the 35" radii curve
Lets say you do use a 35 inch radii turn, then have say 4 inch on either side to be safe. That is a 6.5 foot wide section of bench. Most people can reach and work at about 30 inches, if it is against the wall on one side how are you going to lay the track? I have a 5 foot wide section and had to lay on my stomach to lay the rail. If it is free standing that is still 39 inches to the center. Still a reach for most people. When you have a derailment it will never be close to the edge.
You might want to give us some specks sizes of the room to be used for the bench. There are ways to get to the deeper end of the bench, lift out sections and poop up hatches so you can model and do repairs as needed. Whit this being your first bench, might be a little much to start with.
On you wanting grades (going up hill) I am not sure what your Con Cor can pull. If I remember right there is only one set of drive wheels and 8 passenger cars? If you use a 2 percent grade that could be pushing your engine. I will add to get track up 3.5 inches so train can run under it you will need 175 inches of run to get to the high spot. My math maybe off but not by much. There are ways to keep the track level and add bridges, but that is a different question.
For a new person I would use the KISS method. Keep It Simple and you fill in the rest! I pretty sure you are a car person same as my self. What you are sort of wanting to do is a add a roller cam, headers and big CFM carb and want to run 10's with a other wise stock 327? Or worse yet, take your car a part to the point you lose interest and wind up selling it. We have seen that have we not?
With being your frist rail road keep it on one level, 2 main lines some swithching and see if this is going to be a life long hobby. Most people here will have had 2 to 5 benches. Think of it has adding headers, duals, intake and a 600 CFM Holley to your train set. If you like it go from there.
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I hate Rust
The train has 2 powered locos. 1 on each end. As for the size of the basement....I never measured it but is HUGE lol. The area is about the size of 3 full sized bedrooms. Large enuff to hold a nice sized party in. Cool thing is that the area isnt being used at all. Well i have 3 boxes sitting there with some old recording studio equipment lol. I actually had planned to leave space between the wall and the train set. I will be able to walk around all 4 sides of the layout.
Oh the room is shaped like a large square too. I was planning on putting up a bunch of those long party tables or maybe building my own table-Im pretty good at that sort of thing. Was thinking of making a wood table that actually could be taken apart and broken down into several smaller tables. I was also thinking that I just may want to put it on some foam and lay it on the floor. (the floor is concrete)? I'm a pretty flexible guy too. Im always bending over in engine bays, laying on my back changing drive shafts, bending over for hours working on hydraulic pumps in the trunk, etc lol. If its on a table I probably can sit on the table a bit too without breaking anything. I'm thin and only about 160 lbs lol. I drank weight gainer but nothing happened :-)
I actually found a track designing software called "Right Track" on the internet that I used to design the track that I would like to create. Anybody have any knowledge of it? I think the design came out pretty good for me as I am a 1st time user of the software.
I did run into a couple problems though (4 to be exact lol). I cannot get the flex track to connect in four places on the track. I see how it can be done in real life and know what pieces to use but I cant get the calculations right on the computer. Anybody know of a quick way to make the computer do all the hard work for me and come up with the right pieces that fit? This pic shows white arrows in the places that need to be connected:
This software is actually kinda fun!
Only bad thing was that it had to be done on a PC :-(
I'm a MAC guy :-)
I also bought a soldering kit off ebay for $10. Its a 30 watt. Is this the type I needed?
You don't seem to be getting much help from others.
The soldering iron you show should do quite well. Figure out a way to keep its hot tip off any benchwork or other surfaces that could be marred by it. Get used to the idea that the tip gets amazingly hot, but you can be sure it will be reinforced painfully at least once in your layout construction.
Your software seems to be easy to use and produces good results. The track design you show is interesting, but it has unnecssary trackage. For example, what is the purpose of the quarter arc turn that joins two right angle tracks at dead centre? It serves little purpose, except as a short-cut. But why have a shortcut if you want the rest of it? Or, conversely, why "pay for" the rest of that loop if the shortcut achieves the same orientation? The real railroads would not pay for what you have obviated, or bypassed, if the shortcut had any utility.
Secondly, what does this train do? Where does it pick up loads, and what loads are they? Something has to pay the bills. Then, to where is it to deliver the loads?
The plan you show is interesting, as I have said, and part of that is the convolution. But while it may be interesting on the screen, it will not be particularly interesting after your trains have run around it a few times.
Just my two cents. I realize that you are just getting to know the software, and I can't help you there, sorry. But I wanted to get my licks in early in case the plan has already begun to appeal to you.
RAGTOPROYI also bought a soldering kit off ebay for $10. Its a 30 watt. Is this the type I needed?
Looks fine except that the handle is going to get a bit hot during long sessions. Wrap it heavily with electrical tape or better yet find a cork cylinder. 30 watts is near perfect. Use 60/40 rosin core electronics solder, keep the tip clean on a wet sponge and NEVER use acid flux. In fact you don't need any extra flux with the right solder. It is nice for cleaning the tip though. Heat the material and apply the solder to the material, not to the iron. Work quickly if you can. Practice will pay off big dividends.
Good luck.
PS: Nothing wrong with a PC ... if it's running Linux.
The mind is like a parachute. It works better when it's open. www.stremy.net
I put a small amount of flux in the rail joiners before assembling the track. When I go back and solder the joiners the flux pulls the solder into the joiners and locks it all together. Without the flux the solder stays on the outside of the joiner and can break loose.