bogp40I agree that the use of matte medium/ alcohol will work well. I do find that I only experienced the shrink/ cracking when the scenery material was laid too thick and excessively wet down. Alcohol allows for better penetration and less shrinkage. This seems to happen more due to the type of material as well. On most of the yards that roadbed is used over plywood, a layer of sand is used as a base first to save on the amount of the "expensive" product. One note as to the use of matte medium: once dried will not soften by rewetting. Any removal is by chipping the dried material out. Any reworking/ reuse of track is futile. This yard was done using a filler of play sand before staining and final ballasting Even areas of mainline was done with plaster scenery filler and sand between rails before final ballasting. Road bed is 1/4" clear pine
I agree that the use of matte medium/ alcohol will work well. I do find that I only experienced the shrink/ cracking when the scenery material was laid too thick and excessively wet down. Alcohol allows for better penetration and less shrinkage. This seems to happen more due to the type of material as well. On most of the yards that roadbed is used over plywood, a layer of sand is used as a base first to save on the amount of the "expensive" product.
One note as to the use of matte medium: once dried will not soften by rewetting. Any removal is by chipping the dried material out. Any reworking/ reuse of track is futile.
This yard was done using a filler of play sand before staining and final ballasting
Even areas of mainline was done with plaster scenery filler and sand between rails before final ballasting. Road bed is 1/4" clear pine
Wow, that is one fine looking ballast job on the yard. I wish mine looked that good.
Tomkat...are you paying attention?
Good point about yard ballasting being different than mainline ballasting. In reviewing some slides I took of Milwaukee's Butler Yard a few years ago (formerly a C&NW yard, now UP, and the new Hampton Ave. bridge makes photography more difficult than when I took my shots), I noticed that the ballasting was of flat chips of Pink Lady stone rather than stones, that the ballast came up to exactly the tops of the ties, and that you saw little if any ballast sitting on top of the ties themselves. The ballast was obviously very thoroughly tamped. The result is that even in the dark it would be an even surface to walk on for guys working the yard. More typical ballasting, with irregular sized rocks of ballast here and there and the sides and ends of ties exposed, would make for difficult and even dangerous walking the dark -- or during daylight for that matter if you are not watching your feet.
Dave Nelson
Looks good so far. Just make sure there is something stout at the end of track.
If this is a yard ladder, run ballast or gravel all the way up the lead, gives the crew a safer place to walk. A switch out on the line would probably just have some ballast or chips just around the switch stand area.
Mike WSOR engineer | HO scale since 1988 | Visit our club www.WCGandyDancers.com
Sorry for the delayed response. I decided just to add in weeds along the cracks in my ballast, and took a picture to show you guys the improvement. I filled the gaps with diluted white glue to make sure they stay put and added grass over that. I think it works rather well.
dknelson Bob my old palm sander works for me -- just the right amount of vibration -- but too much vibration and you might end up throwing ballast up on the ties and rail web. Experiment, in other words. Dave Nelson
Bob my old palm sander works for me -- just the right amount of vibration -- but too much vibration and you might end up throwing ballast up on the ties and rail web. Experiment, in other words.
I would imagine the best way to control the vibration would be to wrap a rag/towel around the sander. Placement and amount of pressure on the rails or should allow best control.
Guessing here, do need to try this out next time. Thanks Dave.
Modeling B&O- Chessie Bob K. www.ssmrc.org
Dave,
Using the vibration of the sander sounds like a great idea. It should allow those stray grains on the ties and rail web to settle down as well. Need to give it a try.
I have noticed that it helps to really tamp the ballast down before beginning the "wet water" application and final cementing. I use an old piece of cork roadbed to tamp down the ballast so that it fills up every nook and cranny. I then lightly tap on the benchwork with a rubber mallet and that causes even more settling of the ballast. Finally I get out an old palm sander and "vibrate" the general area and there is yet more setttling! It is really surprising what small gaps must exist even when you use the finest and smallest ballast.
Sometimes I need to add a bit more ballast after this process. I suspect that where cracks have developed on my own ballasted track, the problem is a combination of the under-surface, some inadequate "pre-wetting" and slight gaps in the ballast itself.
Bogp40, I think you're right. I did another area by thinly layering ballast, and it came out just fine- no cracks at all. That's a good tip about the sand filler, too. I might try that on my actual layout.
Thank you, too, to everyone who took the time to respond to this thread.
Wikious Either I'm oversaturating the ballast, or something truly screwy is going on here!
Either I'm oversaturating the ballast, or something truly screwy is going on here!
I vote the latter. I abolutely innundate the ballast with water and 91% alcohol and this has never happend to me.
Definitely alcohol. The water around here is quite 'hard' and adding soap to it just did NOT work at all. Alcohol and glue - perfect! Plain Elmer's whute glue - although matte medium would work probably even better. I've also noticed more and more magazine articles mentioning alcohol instead of the "water with a couple drops of dish soap" method.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Wikious:
Just a question. Is your yard possibly laid on either sheet cork or WS foam mats? The reason I ask is that my yard is laid on the WS foam mats, and after a while I had some cracks show up from simply running the trains on what is essentially a 'spongy' surface. What I did was sprinkle fine foam 'weeds' on the places where the ballast had cracked, using the same method I'd used to fix the ballast: 'wet' water and thinned white glue. The foam seems to be more flexible than the ballast itself, with a lot more 'give' to it.
Tom
Tom View my layout photos! http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/TWhite-014/Rio%20Grande%20Yuba%20River%20Sub One can NEVER have too many Articulateds!
Well, this keeps getting unexected. I went back to a few spots to re-do. Saturated the area with wet water, let it soak, and applied plenty of scenic cement. Just about every area is worse than when I started. I did notice that after a few hours, some areas were bubbling up. I'd have taken pictures to show, but my camera is out of service for a while.
Wikius, your method results in a good representation of ground settling. Maybe there are spots where you'd want this effect.
Mark
I'm going to be adding vegetation- I'm by no means done with this diorama. I just wanted to make sure it wasn't anything problematic before I detailed the whole thing. Thank you to everyone who replied!
WSOR 3801 Needs more mud and dirt, vegetation, etc. Could use different ballast colors as well. Just add some glue, and add weeds to the affected area.
Needs more mud and dirt, vegetation, etc. Could use different ballast colors as well. Just add some glue, and add weeds to the affected area.
Yes more "Wet" water & add vegetation, clutter, junk, trash, ect
Hi!
I agree with the previous posters, and would also add that you might want to brush out some of that ballast around the turnout points. Sooner or later, they will cause a derailment. Experience talks...............
Mobilman44
ENJOY !
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
West yard at Janesville.
jrbernierThe 'pre-soak' did not sink deep enough before you applied the glue.
All is not lost! BTW 70% Isoproply Alcohol works even better, particularly with matte medium. (I use a ratio of 1 part decanted mm to 3 parts water and it works fine.) Soak a test area as you normally would then gently scrape off the top and see if the wetting penetrated to the bottom. There is also a small chance that your glue is still too thick.
The mind is like a parachute. It works better when it's open. www.stremy.net
I have been using wet water on my ballast, but you're probably right, I might need to apply more.
Not enough 'wet water' - The 'pre-soak' did not sink deep enough before you applied the glue. Mixup some water is a sprayer with a couple of drops of dish detergent. Mist the ballast so that it is throughy wet(do not hold it so close that you wash the ballast away). Now, using a large eye dropper, apply the glue(I use Matte Medium watered down 50/50). WS Scenic Cement is the same thing and I have used it as well.
Jim
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
I've been ballasting yard sections on my diorama, and I've had a problem with cracks developing in the ballast in open spaces. Many of them become slightly hollow underneath and the top section breaks off. It's fine around the tracks. What would cause this to happen? I use WS Scenic Cement to hold it in place and have been trying to fix the cracks with somewhat thinned white glue.
Red lines for emphasis.