Well, I'm fixin (as they say here in Texas) to start the demo of my 11x15 two level HO layout. The plans for the new layout are pretty well settled and scale drawings are finished - although I expect I'll juggle some of the industrial sidings around.
Today I pulled all the cars and locos off the layout, and the next step is the structures. I got a brainstorm regarding the structures, which will help me place them on the new layout. I'll set each of them on a piece of brown wrapping paper and trace their footprint before I put them away. When done, I'll have a collection of cut-outs that will make life a lot easier in laying out the industrial sidings, etc.
Once the structures are off I'll take some pictures, and then some track clearance measurements and other data that I might need.
Most all the track is ballasted, and for better or worse its attached with track nails. Thank goodness for the Xuron spike pliers and track cutters! Anyway, that should keep me busy for some time, and afterwards its decision time as to what I can reuse, and what gets discarded.
I won't boor you with any more, but will let you all know when I get some serious progress made.
ENJOY,
Mobilman44
ENJOY !
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
Mobilman:
If this helps at all, when I tore down my original Yuba River Sub about 8 years ago, the first cut (or rip, however you're doing it) was the hardest. Then when I looked at the damage I'd caused, it got easier. MUCH easier. I had the whole empire scrapped and into a dumpster in two days. But it was that FIRST cut (or rip) that is the hardest. After that, with visions of my New and Improved layout dancing around in my head, I just kept going. I was able to save the trees, some of the track, all of the buildings and even some of the rockwork (that went into some Zip-Lock plastic bags. And whoopie, most of the trees and some of the rockwork ended up on the New and Improved.
The track? Well, sorry about that, but in my case, I had some other ideas.
Saved a few bridges, however.
But let me tell you, once you start on the new layout, you'll forget all about the other one. At least I did.
Tom
Tom View my layout photos! http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/TWhite-014/Rio%20Grande%20Yuba%20River%20Sub One can NEVER have too many Articulateds!
Yes, like the song says, "the first cut is the hardest" or something like that. I suspect I'll end up pretty much like you indicated and should find some uses for a portion of the rockwork and one very special bridge I built.
The current layout has 5 tunnel portals, and the new layout will only have one (for the grade to the below level staging), but possibly two more if I get a bit creative. As you can relate, a lot of time, energy, and creativity went into the layout - especially retaining walls and tunnel portals and rock faces. But, I've had the layout for most of 15 years and the new layout will eliminated the 3 or 4 problem areas I have now - so I should enjoy the new one that much more. Anyway, it was good to hear someone else went thru the "pain" of layout demo!
Thanks,
Mobilman,
After Building my MEC/CN N scale 2 level shelf layout connected by a double track Helix with 9 hand built loops,DCC,Finished Scenery,and a generally nice time.I have to tell you Complete Demolition in 2007 was the most Liberating and satisfying expierence I can remember!Sold everything on Ebay right down to my Xuron tools.Rode my Harley alot more with the boys,Let my MR subscription run out,and didn't look back............Until I picked up the January 2009 MR issue last week at supermarket!
Gettin the fever again,
Hogwire
Bill - if you need some moral support, I am just around the corner from you. Give me a call if you need it. I too had "rebuilder's remorse" but now that I have finished the tear down, Progress has slowed to a crawl getting started up again, but some cabinetry and some benchwork have been finished since the hurricane. I have built a couple of curved turnouts in prep for trackwork, but that's about it. I also had to dismantle another layout that was given to me (thanks again Craig !) and salvaged quite a bit of track and a turntable with roundhouse. In some ways, that was harder than tearing down my own layout because some of that one was much better than my own work, but I just couldn't figure out any way to incorporate it into my room size and track plan. I'm excited about the new plan, (seems like I've reworked it a hundred times already, so I figure I'm about halfway through making changes) . We can get through this. With time, all things shall pass. We just need to take things one day at a time....
My name is Earl, and I am a Model Railroader....
I once caught a train in my pajama's. How it got in my pajama's I'll never know... (sorry, Groucho)
Thanks!
I'm doing OK, especially after all the cars, structures, and "portable" scenery (i.e. telephone poles, most trees, and bridges) have been removed. It is really strange, how hard it was for me to come to the decision (to rebuild), and now I'm looking forward to it immensely. Frankly, I think without the character of the "removable stuff", the layout is just wood and plaster and screening and stuff - and not the "work of art" it was when it was all together. I don't mean to go overboard here, but you get the idea.
Now I start on removing the trackwork, and salvaging what I can - especially turnouts. This layout has only #4 and # 6 and wye turnouts, the new one has mostly #8s and #6s and a few #4s.
Hey, progress is being made.
You should do one of those "time lapse photography" deals where you set the camera on a tripod or other fixed location pointed at the layout, then snap a photo about every 15/30/60 minutes while you are doing the demo. Then afterwards, arrange all of the photos in a slideshow like Flikr or Photobucket--would be a very cool presentation. I wish I would have done this during my benchwork phase but I plan on doing it once I start track & scenery (since I will actually have a place to mount the camera). Jamie
CLICK HERE FOR THE CSX DIXIE LINE BLOG
Hi!
That is a great idea, but given the whole room is literally filled with the layout, there is no one place where a single picture would do the job. When I built this one in the early '90s, I took a whole lot of pictures during the process, which I will do with this one.
Well, the main level trackage is just about totally removed. The track was attached with track nails, and the outside tracks (mains) were nicely/heavily ballasted. Other than the mains, the trackage was lightly ballasted. As you could guess, removing the trackage (other than the mains) was no major deal, thanks to the Xuron track nippers and spike removal tool. I got those from Micromart (along with a spike "inserter" tool) and they are worth every penny. Anyway, getting the heavily ballasted track off is a bear of a job. All the track nails are weathered and the diluted white glue used to hold the ballast is solid - after 13 years or so!
More track and turnouts are reusable than I anticipated, but will need some work to get them in top condition for DCC operation.
The messy stuff comes next - removing tunnel portals, bridge abutments, and a whole lot of retaining walls. Oh, what someone wrote earlier is very true in my case. Once the demo is in progress, its all looking forward and no looking backward.
ENJOY!!
mobilman44Anyway, getting the heavily ballasted track off is a bear of a job. All the track nails are weathered and the diluted white glue used to hold the ballast is solid - after 13 years or so!
Last winter when I did the demo work on my layout, I managed to salvage about 95% of all my track. I had the same problem that yout having cleaning off the old ballast material.
My wife had a large tub they use to dip wall paper in, I used that and bought a bunch of rubbing alcohol and soaked it for about 3 hours, I then used a old tooth brush to srubb off all the glue and ballast. It worked pretty good.
Thanks, great idea on the alky bath! I figured that track would go into the new layout yards and sidings, the better shape track to the sub mains and staging tracks, and I would buy new for the main lines.
I've got a ton of Atlas # 6 and 4 turnouts that need to be "desoldered" on the track ends. Doing it mass production style with a couple of screws set in the benchwork to hold the turnout and free the hands makes it an easy job.
Got 3 very heavy compactor bags filled with plaster/wood/vinyl screening this evening. I tend to overkill on the benchwork and mountain supports, and my mountains could have held up a real life jeep or atv!
I glued sheet cork down over most all of the flat area of the layout, where the yards, terminal, industries, etc. resided. It worked just fine, but now I have to scrape it up to find the sheetrocks screwheads so I can take the plywood off the legs/supports. I complain here and now, but suspect I'll do it on the new one. Yikes, its almost 1 am and I can't sleep due to visions of layout demo on my mind.
I have the track plan for my new layout. I have purchased the cork roadbed and flex track and ballast. I have even built a dropleaf mechanism in the shop. It is painted an ready to install. But when I approach my old layout and think of five years of work I put into it, I find another excuse to put off demolition for another day [I need to frame those railroad prints I bought, my nephew might want to see it run once more, I ought to read Armstrong's book once more to be sure my plan is right]. I have been collecting Pizza Hut boxes to store the rolling stock in temporarily. I hope to salvage most of the track [glued down with diluted yellow carpenter's glue] and the trees. The waterfall and river will claim several trestles and bridges, but buildings and signals will survive. I'll junk the wiring, which has always been a mess, and start with new. I just redid my control panel last year, and it will have to go. So maybe this afternoon.......
When I obliterated my last layout I found the best way to enjoy (at least survive) the process is salvage everything you want, Get it clear of the the layout, then take a large hammer (or chainsaw) to that part of the layout that was the biggest pain. The unrepentant release of agression will end up carrying you through most of the destructive ( or as some call it urban renewal) process. I have also discovered a few tools that "vanished" over time as I eradicated the scenery. Unfortunately most were rusted beyond revovery. As I live in the country I can take the unsalvaged lumber as save it for the summer barbeque bonfire.
Well, last evening I got the 4x5 double deck "duck under" removed, and now I have it easier getting into what is now a large U shape. This layout used 40 plus 2x2s for legs and they worked out extremely well - giving a very solid and supportive layout. So, My intent is to save the legs/braces and reused them for the new layout. However, I will discard all the horizontal ply pieces and start with fresh hardwood plywood - probably 1/2 inch.
I saved about half the tunnel portals and retaining walls. The ones made of the plastic like substance (forgot the name) are almost indestructable. The plaster ones are gone. My timetable for total removal of the thing - without destroying or messing up the rest of the house - is month end. Wish me luck!
I took the first step of removing the trains and structures. There was more than I thought. Didn't realize there were so many cars and trucks. Most buildings had Masonite foundations with lights wired in, and I will have to soak the foundations to get them free. They probably won't all make it, but hopefully I can use them for a pattern for new ones. With any luck, I can get the foundations and trees free tomorrow. I imagine the track will take a couple of days -- don't want to rush it since I plan to reuse most of it. We have one of those wallpaper trays somewhere that ICRR1964 used, so I'll start it soaking as I lift it. Haven't started up the chainsaw yet!
It doesn't hurt so much today, once I realized that I can't go back. It is slow going, but I got about 1/4 of the track up today working six hours on my feet. I missed my afternoon nap, and I'm ready for a break. My goal was to get 1/3 of the layout demolished today [one side of the "U"], so a couple of hours this evening should do it. So far I have been able to salvage most of the track, but not the feed wires or rail joiners. I kept some of the rock formations, but I don't know if I'll be able to use them on the new layout.
I spent a lot of time yesterday and today doing demo work making as little mess as possible. I confess a couple times I had to shut the door and use the reciprocating saw. The deck screws do a terrific job holding the layout together, but when paint/plaster/cork/what have you cover them they are a bear to find so you can properly remove them.
Anyway, I got all the wiring out, salvaging about 1/3. And I put the two MRC Controlmaster 20s with two controllers each back in their boxes. They are the big ones (100 VA, they also have 85 VA), and are like new. As I'm going to DCC, these will end up on Ebay.
I did get a lot of plywood and 1x2 lateral supports up and outside, but there is a whole lot more to go. Oh, in my "down time", I'm desoldering the turnouts and feeder wires on the track. There is just a tad over 100 3ft flextrack sections, and I figure I'll salvage about 3/4 or so.
I won't sugarcoat this process - it is WORK !!!!! But, it does get closer to building that new one.
After soaking the track as I removed it, I spent about two hours last night with a toothbrush cleaning the ballast off the track and desoldering joints. I lost one Atlas turnout and about six pieces of track in the whole process. I'm over 1/3 of the way around the layout. The bolts holding the modules together are out, but an elephant could still walk across it. Time for the wrecking bar to separate them and get them out of the room.
Hi again!
Made some major strides this morning, and am close to 1/2 done. Our trash folks took 4 compactor bags and 4 taped stacks of wood away this morning - and I'll have more for them on Wednesday. The big sections of ply and supports are stacked alongside the house, and I'll take a circular saw to them to get them in manageable stacks that the trash folks will haul. It will probably take a month (2x a week) to get rid of it.
The 2x2 legs and 1x2 cross members will remain and break them down into about six sections. This will allow me to move them in the room to clean and paint. The new layout is similar in footprint, so a lot of the set up can be used after alterations.
I do have a decent hand painted backdrop around the room, with curved 2x4 ft masonite in 3 or the 4 corners. The new layout will not have the raised (6inch) track on the outside, so I've got about 6 inches or so below the painted area that will need to be filled in. We will see.
I'm nearly done with taking down the layout, maybe 1/4 to go. The table tops are on the back porch, waiting to have any usable braces removed. The backdrop panels are in the shop where I will sand them and repaint them. The hills and waterfall I hoped to save turned out to be more work removing from the layout than they were worth, so they are going out, too. Sculptamold and Environtex just don't let go gracefully. I lost some figures [animals and fishermen] that were in the water or next to it. It's getting easier to tear into favorite scenes.
Good Morning!
Folks, I hope these postings don't boor you. This project is a major deal in my world, and I want to pass along my findings - both good and not so good - to you all as I go through this process. Sooner or later, those of you with a layout will go though the same. And for those of you building a layout, maybe you will get some idea of "what worked and what didn't" from me............
Well, a lot of demo progress was made over the weekend!
Benchwork horizontal surfaces are about 3/4 removed, setting outside awaiting the circular saw.
Trackwork has been removed, and I got rid of all pieces under 18 inches. I'm left with about 105 sections of 3ft flex, most of which are closer to 30 inches now. All turnouts and specialty track pieces are desoldered. At some point later on I will evaluate each piece and clean & reuse, or ????
I wish I had counted the sheetrock screws I removed - as the number would surely be several hundred. I have thrown all away and will use new ones (with coarse threads) on the new layout.
The cork roadbed was secured by brads, with most remaining attached to the plywood (ouch!!!) even after removal of the cork. I will NOT do that again, and will try the latex caulk method on the new layout.
I can foresee a major decision on the painted backdrop, as it is about 6 inches higher than I want for the new layout. I really want to keep it, as it is easily the best "artwork" I have ever done. We will see......
Hey, that's all for now - hope you all have a wonderful day!
Sheet rock screws! My layout was built in stages as time and space became available, so every section seems to have a different type of screws -- Phillips, Torx, square drive, and slots. I have to change driver bits constantly. So I won't make that mistake again -- all Phillips head from now on. And some of the bolts holding sections are 1/4" and some are 5/16". The wiring was color-coded originally, but when I ran out of some colors, I substituted whatever I had on hand. Another mistake I will not repeat. Nor will I apply Sculptamold over screw heads again.
I havent had great results with Philips head screws and their driver bits. I used a few drywall screws on my layout, but only to keep the splines in place on their risers. Everything else was using Robertson type screws. They drive very positively, I find.
What is a Robertson screw? I'm not familiar with them. The Torx work the best, but our supply store only carries a few sizes. However, I haven't had any problems with the Phillips drywall screws and my power driver.
mobilman44 Anyway, I got all the wiring out, salvaging about 1/3. And I put the two MRC Controlmaster 20s with two controllers each back in their boxes. They are the big ones (100 VA, they also have 85 VA), and are like new. As I'm going to DCC, these will end up on Ebay.
Don't underestimate your need for power in addition to your DCC system. You'll be driving structure lights, street lamps and signal LEDs. You might decide that an electromagnetic uncoupler is an option for your mainline, and that will take a sizeable chunk of juice when you push the button. You'll want rock-solid power for your turnout motors, too, and a turntable sure looks a lot like a DC locomotive to the wires going into it.
So, I'd advise hanging on to those supplies. Replacing that amperage may be difficult with what you'll get for them on eBay.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
I'll certainly hold on to the Controlmaster 20s until I know for sure if I need them. The old layout used an older MRC pack to power lights and turnouts, so we will see.
Today was a red letter day, for all horizontal surfaces have been removed. Its all stacked next to the garage and I'm getting it cut up in manageable duct tape wrapped stacks so the trash folks can safely handle it. Given we have two pick-ups a week, I figure it will be all gone in 3 weeks or so.
All track, turnouts and wiring have been sorted and are available for re-use.
I'm now looking at a room filling "U" shaped matrix of 45 - 2x2 legs and 1x2 and 1x4 crossbracing. Fortunately one side and the bottom of the U can be reused pretty much as is, but the long side of the U needs to be brought out almost a foot.
But, before I mess with that I need to do a thorough cleaning and painting of the room, and paint on about 4 inches on the bottom of the existing backdrop.
I tore apart the last modules today, saving what bracing and L-girders that seem usable. Everythinbg is in the pickup ready to go to the landfill on Saturday. Just could not save the two timber trestles that were in the Environtex river. I got the backdrop panels sanded and ready for painting. Lost quite a few trees that just would not come loose. All the track and structures are cleaned and ready to reuse. As soon as the pickup is empty, I'll bring home the lumber and ply for the new layout. I think it will be less painful after all the old modules are out of sight in the landfill.
Well, the demo is complete - taking about 3 weeks (3-6 hours/day) to finish. Structures, bridges & tunnel portals, most of the track & turnouts, and some of the wiring has been salvaged. All plywood and scenery is gone and getting portioned off to the trash folks over a few weeks time.
The legs (45 - 2x2) and a maze of 1x2 and 1x4 horizontal supports remain - looking like a room full of tinker toys for the "jolly green giant". I have broken the base into a few sections, which are remarkedly light. This allowed me to move them around and get to the outer walls for cleaning and painting. Also remaining is the 2 ft high, around the room painted backdrop, with 1/8 inch, 2'x4' pieces of masonite curving out the corners.
I admit that taking this down was a very difficult decision, but (as someone wrote earlier) once I got started, I quickly began to concentrate on the "new and improved" layout that would take its place.
Sooo, this series of messages on this posting - regarding layout demolition - is done. However, I will open a new post to chronicle the building of the new layout. I've found the messages to be really helpful - for me to write (and pause to think about what I am doing), and to hear your comments and advice - which is always welcome.
Thanks to all,