I know I've asked for help on layouts several times in the last year, but I keep learning things and changing my mind as time goes on. I've been working on another lately that I may actually start building sometime soon, because space may be available.
Specifics
HO ScaleAutumnPresent-day: Wisconsin and Southern RR, Janesville branchWill be using mostly flextrack, but will incorporate sectional, as I have a ton.NOTE: While many of the turnouts are listed as no. 4, they will really be shortened no. 6 switches. I'm aware this will change track orientation and as a result this plan is merely as a guide, not a specific blueprint.Will be using mostly 4-axle Diesels, but will occasionally run 6-axle power.Ideal max train length is 6 50' cars.Building layout for operations with loops so I can just watch them run sometimes.
Givens
9'x11' spaceThe 4'x7' block at the bottom is a pool table, which I cannot move and must be used in my layout. There's no way around it.Walkways are on the bottom and right sides of the diagram.The gap at the top left side of the diagram is space for a cabinet built into the wall. This cabinet currently houses my railroad stuff and won't be used very often after the layout is built.Scenery will be mostly trees and small hills, larger hills used for view blocks. I don't want to go into scenery specifics until the track is mostly set.
What I'd like
I'd like to find a way to put in a two-track hidden staging yard, as I want to model local operations and will need long-distance trains to arrive and depart occasionally.I'd also like help in trying to identify any potential bottlenecks or problems in the layout before I finalize this. Thank you all in advance.
I'm not sure I understand the pool table thing. Is the railroad to be built on top of it with the table as a support, or is the pool table to remain somehow accessible for use? Whichever is the case, you have the yard built on top. Will the turnouts use above the table switch machines or hand throws, or are you planning on undertable switch motor mounting?
It appears that the reach-in distance is pretty great on the lower left side (below the warehousing and to the left of the bakery).
If I were operating this by myself, I think that I'd find the necessity of jumping in and out of the hole through the duckunder tiring after a while.
Probably would be a good idea to plan in another passing siding or two unless you only plan to run one train at a time.
Concerning staging, do you have room for a temporary two track (or more) yard extending either straight out from the upper right, or straight down from the bottom left?
And that inner curve at the upper right looks pretty sharp.
(above comments are just my opinions which, along with $1.69, gets me a cup of coffee at Dunkin Donuts.)
As for the staging, can you cut a hole in the side of the cabinet? You could run the staging tracks up the left hand side and into the cabinet. However, you'd have to set the layout height at the level of one of the shelves and access would be poor.
This would require some modification to your plan, but how about putting Janesville Yard along the right-hand side? Then you could put your staging on the bottom (where the yard is now), and slide the divider back, which would give you more room for your team tracks, bakery tracks, and depth to develop the city scenery. It would also reduce the number of duckunder transits, as you could work the yard from inside the pit.
Maxman- the layout will be put on supports above the pool table. Most of my turnouts will have handthrows, but I think I'll need under the table machines for staging and the bakery area.
Staging can't be extended out (the 9x11 can't be exceeded), but I may be able to put some in the cabinet; It has large flat shelves.
The upper right's inner curve is in line with my standard curve, according to XtrkCad, so I'm not worried about it. Curves are generally 18" or greater, since I have restricted space and mainly will use 4 axle locos. (the 6 axles will mainly be interchange service)
And as for operations, I'm trying to plan it so up to 3 trains can be working at a time, but each limited: one in the yard, one for the right side of the layout, and one on the right. There should be minimal overlap of their territory. Alternatively, I can run one train at a time by myself. (I also doubt all three trains would be actively running at the same time.)
odave, I had another plan that had the yard on the right, but I wasn't happy with how it limited the paths into and out of the yard.
The bakery and warehouse look to be hard to reach. I suggest moving them, maybe putting the city in that spot.
By shifting the quarry towards the inside a bit, and making a hill, the warehouse track and the cement track could be hooked up, for staging hidden behind the quarry.
Any elevation changes? Janesville is full of them.
Looks to be a fairly large plastic place. Most have but one track. They want cars spotted in a certain order, which takes more time, increasing play value. You can put more than one industry on a track. Up in Dane a lumberyard, co-op and plastic place all share the one track.
Most bottlenecks won't show up until you actually start runnning trains.
Mike WSOR engineer | HO scale since 1988 | Visit our club www.WCGandyDancers.com
Joe Fugate has a layout analysis formula that will point out the limitations of your design. But I can tell you right now that you'll find the passing sidings will be the limiting factor.
If you use the shelf area for staging you can get more than 2 tracks and for your layout, and a yard that big, you want as many as you can get. If you can't get the staging hidden, put it on the layout and call it an exchange track.
So more staging and bigger passing sidings.
Edit: I should add that this is the best design you've come up with. Good job. You'll tweak it out.
Chip
Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.
WSOR 3801- I am planning elevation changes. I'll have several hills around. The curved road I think will either go under or above the right-hand yard lead, and the gravel quarry will have several conveyors going into hills. I'll also use hills as view breaks- I just didn't want to add those in yet until the tracks are finalized. The plastics factory is large because in addition to hoppers in, I'd like to have them ship some larger pipes out by rail for more variety in traffic.
SpaceMouse- Thanks for the link, I'll check that out later tonight. Also, thank you so much for all the help you've given me on my designs. You've taught me quite a bit.
I'll try to have a redesigned layout up either tonight or by tomorrow morning. As a side question, is it undesirable to have industries on a passing track?
If you park a car there, trains can't pass. Now if you run a short spur off the passing siding...
WikiousAs a side question, is it undesirable to have industries on a passing track?
Depends. The WSOR has a lot of double ended industrial sidings. No passing sidings on the system. Meets are made in the yards. Depends how prototypical you want to be...
Well, I've always considered my plans to be protolancing. I'm taking the names of things but since I don't really have the space to faithfully model the prototype, winging a couple things doesn't bother me. I changed a few things in this next plan, including adding a passing track. If it turns out I don't need it I can always slap another industry on it.
I'm still trying a few ways to add staging in, but nothing has quite worked yet.
I found a way to put staging in. I'll take the backdrop and curve it from the top of the quarry so there's more space for me to get at staging.
Staging track seems kinda short. Maybe it curves along and onto the shelving there. Could have the staging track(s) go down/uphill to get to staging. I would consider running the staging behind the quarry, behind a short viewblock. Maybe 4 inches tall, Masonite, with trees and foliage on the front. Some places do look like that, just out of sight behind foliage, or like a tunnel through the trees. Would still be accessible, with organic optical detection.
Would the bakery be busy enough for two tracks? They don't usually ship by rail, product is too fragile. Inbound flour, sugar, maybe corn syrup and soybean oil.
A rough sketch.
Staging to the rear, viewblock in front of it. A mainline added, and the quarry moved to the front. Model the loadout, and the rest of the quarry would be in the aisle, unmodeled. This arrangement is very similar to how it is in Anderson, at the JS&G quarry. The old MILW line split by Memorial Drive, went around the back of the quarry, while the CNW went pretty straight through there. There was a diamond at the north end of the quarry, but it was taken out, as the MILW line washed out. A tight connection track was added, and is currently in use.
It looks like you have room for at least two more staging tracks. Check out Joe's formula and run it for both 2 and 4 track staging. It will take a lot of the guesswork out of your planning.
If you are willing to freelance your Janesville yard, the following photo shows how I made the 7 tracks of my seven track stub yard nearly equal in length and each track accessable to each other, by the use of Ys and double-slip switches. The switcher can make up a 10-12 car train without tying up the main line. Make sure that the run-around passing tracks are equal to your largest train.
Note the overpass of the mainline which drops down to be able to drop off or pick up consists from the yard.
The cabinet seems to be the ideal place for "Hidden 2++ track storage and staging yard. You can removed the doors from the cabinet and place a removable backdrop scenery across the opening, (that can be lifted out, as needed). Bob Hahn
If you're not averse to putting a hole in the storage cabinet and making sure a cabinet shelf lines up with the rest of the layout, you could run stub-ended staging up the entire left-hand side. A straight turnout could go at the straight section at the Y=3' mark, or a curved turout at the Y=1.5' mark. The staging would then run up the left hand side, into the cabinet, all the way to the top edge. Trains coming out of staging could enter Janesville yard, where they could be broken down and classified. Access would not be the greatest, but you could have a couple of long trains up there.
Here again is my latest incarnation of my layout plan. I've allowed for a 2-track staging area attached to the layout. I've measured and I can fit into the space next to staging (the cabinet is built into the wall), and if need be I can scoot the layout over a few more inches. The brown stuff is what I'm planning as hills so far.
The staging is just barely enough. Both tracks will hold a 6 car train and engine, but the left track will require that engine to sit on the switch. Shouldn't be a problem, though, since I estimate only one or two interchange trains per session.
Would it possible to hook up the stub end of the staging back to the main somehow? Makes life a lot easier.
Or you could have mainlines from 2 different railroads right next to each other. In Janesville, from 5-points up to Memorial Drive that is how it was. Looked like double track, but wasn't. The CNW Evansville (Madison) line crossed the MILW with a diamond, almost on top of a bridge, close to the Rock River. The MILW Beloit Main and the old CNW passenger main were also pretty close to each other, both diving under the MILW J line to Chicago.
Or for something different, there was a track that split off the MILW, between the river and Memorial Drive. Went down a switchback, then down to street level. Ran in a street for a bit, then crossed the Rock River on its own bridge, ending up downtown. Not sure when the line was removed, but one of the telltales (to warn of a bridge) is stil there.
Just a few more ideas to think about. Janesville was and is a pretty busy place, with things crammed in due to the lay of the land.
The last design I hadn't really thought about double ended staging, but I tried it and I like how it could work. I have room for 2 6-car trains + engine and no overlap on tracks. The switches to and in staging on the far left side will need remote switches, but I can live with that.
WSOR 3801- I always wondered why the bridges downtown were two tracks wide but only hold one track. That explains it! With my lack of space, though, I think modeling the river just won't be possible, which is too bad. Maybe on the next layout.
I was running trains on this plan in xtrkcad today. I use the Dallas Model Works car request generator for the cars from "yesterday" and the cars that have to be put out. I was running solo for an hour and a half and didn't even finish one day. Trying to manage the yard was pretty fun, and I found I might have to increase train length to 7 cars on some of the jobs.
Jake- in train running mode, you Shift+Click on a turnout to change it.
This is a big improvement. I like it very much! Could you gain some track length to your staging yard by having it above the spur and then curving down. Perhaps you would have to curve your backdrop a bit, to allow for the two tracks, which could join at a switch to the right of the backdrop. This would make rerailing and switch management much easier. Bob Hahn
HHPATH56 This is a big improvement. I like it very much! Could you gain some track length to your staging yard by having it above the spur and then curving down. Perhaps you would have to curve your backdrop a bit, to allow for the two tracks, which could join at a switch to the right of the backdrop. This would make rerailing and switch management much easier. Bob Hahn
I wondered about doing that, but I didn't like that it would be against the wall with no way of getting to it, being both against the wall and behind a large building. Glad you like my plan, though!
I was wondering how to put some more boxcar traffic on my layout (I have about a dozen) and came up with this revision of my layout. I move some industries around and add a recycling plant that would take two or three boxcars a day. This leaves me with two questions regarding this layout:
1) Is the top part of the layout approaching a spaghetti-bowl mess of tracks?
2) Regarding the red arrow for plastics shipping- is it uncommon for an industry to recieve supplies on one siding and ship out on a nearby shared siding, or would the same siding do double duty for the recieving and shipping?
Wikious Regarding the red arrow for plastics shipping- is it uncommon for an industry to receive supplies on one siding and ship out on a nearby shared siding, or would the same siding do double duty for the receiving and shipping?
I think if the outfit had enough money and land to get their own siding, they would handle all of their business on it. Team tracks are for outfits that are ways from the tracks, or unable to afford their own siding on their own property. Plastic pellets can be unloaded almost anywhere, just need a properly outfitted truck to suck them out of the car.
This is from Plymouth, WI. Two different outfits unload plastic here, just a flat area around the depot.
I would think about hooking the top of the quarry track back into the main, and getting rid of the cement distributor. Janesville has that all in one area, by the quarry. The loadout for the trains also can load trucks, and the cement and concrete facilities are a bit south, on the south side of Black Bridge Road. Make the inner loop there serviced by the UP only. If you want, could move the lumberyard there, maybe a chemical place if you like tank cars. Both could serve the quarry, but the WSOR would spot/pull from the top only. Would require an interchange move then, to get cars from one railroad to another.
I thought about giving Union Pacific some of their own trackage on my layout, but I'm not sure. The circular layout and the angle staging is at don't go well for that, and besides, I have all of one UP engine, an SD40-2, which isn't used around here. I was thinking, though, it would be neat operations to turn one of the double tracks by the quarry into an interchange track. It would free up some space in the Janesville yard.
Here's another rendition I did. I loose the passing track at the top right corner, but in my virtual op sessions, I never used it after I reassigned which trains do which industries.