This is just an over all rant and there will nothing useful in this post other than me venting.
RR CAD programs are the most unfriendly P.O.S. ever invented and I have spent endless hours trying to figure them out. YES, you heard right...them. I bought one and then downloaded free ones. And they all SUCK. I am so ready to kick the cat and punt the dog. How much time must one devote to fricking learn these things!?!?!?!
I don't want to run trains on them. THAT's why I want to BUILD a RR in the first place. I just want to plop and place track and turnouts to see if stuff will fit. And like a few building and such.
Right now I can't figure out how to make helix in XTraCad for the world. And at this point I'm not sure if I care.
Anyone want a free copy of CADRAIL??? I'm not kidding. If you can use it to design a layout for my room I give it to you plus $100 bucks. Heck, that will save me at least that much in vet bills!Let me put it this way: I would rather go back and (re) take that Latin class in colledge than sit here hour after hour trying to learn these progams.
Please, just let stick a 9volt battery on my tongue till it drains......
Rant over….
My cat and dog thank you all for letting me vent.
It's because you bought the wrong one. You SHOULD have bought Anyrail.http://www.anyrail.com/index_en.html(free demo) I've got Cadrail too and Anyrail is 100 times easier to use. They all have a bit of a learning curve, but this has the least of any I've used.
Hmm, never heard of that one. I've used 3rd Plan-It, XtrackCAD, and played around with Atlas's Right Track, which since it's pretty much geared to just Atlas track components is reather limited, unless you are building your layout with nothign but Atlas track.
Anyway, ALL CAD programs have a learning curve. And quite frankly, some people just aren't cut out to use CAD programs. That doesn't mean they're less intelligent or anything, it's just that some people are better at 3D visualization than others - and if you aren't good at it, you're going to have a tough time with CAD programs of any sort.
CAD programs also tend to work a bit 'different' from a plain old drawing program. Some let you change the way clicking the mouse works, but typical operations are click one place, then click another, not click and drag a line.
Most have a free demo so you can try it out before you buy it. And most have a tutorial - folow it, COMPLETELY, before attempting to draw your own layout. The tutorial may be silly, or after the first couple of steps it may seem obvious how to do things, but stick with it because I guarantee as you follow through it will show you something that isn't always so obvious.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
LocoThis is just an over all rant and there will nothing useful in this post other than me venting.
That's not true at all. I got quite a bit out of your post.
It sounds like you need an intervention from the CAD application 12-step program.
First, relax. If you still want to kick the cat I'm all for that but stop punting the dog, he's on your side.
A NINE VOLT BATTERY ON THE TONGUE!!!
That one had me rolling on the freaking floor!
Perhaps buying Loathar's "beloved" Anyrail will be the answer for you but it's also possible you could be throwing good money after bad.
Randy has already given you some great insights and advice. Everything he said is dead on balls accurate, (it's an industry term).
The fact is you are probably not a computer power user, which could be a good thing.
You are also not likely used to learning applications that do not have a fairly intuitive user interface.
I'm not sure 3D visualization is the problem you are having although Randy is right, some people are better at it than others. I think it's just a lack of understanding of the application.
CAD programs are hard.
It took me a week to come to any level of proficiency with XTrkCAD. I advise going completely through the tutorials in the help menu and then playing with the program for a few days or so. You can switch to the demos right out of your drawing and come back without issues so don't be afraid to return to the demo if you are stuck. After you are comfortable with most of the basic functions, go through the demos for the more advanced commands that you are still having problems with. Again refer to the demos whenever you need to.
I hope you are using the latest version, 4.02. If not download it.
There is also an XTrkCAD yahoo group.
As you can probably tell, I think you should save your money and learn XTrkCAD. I tried a demo of CadRail and did not like it. I used Atlas at the beginning, which is probably the easiest one I've found but I found it too limiting.
XTrkCAD took me the longest to learn and I am still learning. Here is a trackplan I drew for my space. It's still a work in progress though. There is no helix in this one but I have drawn a couple that I ran trains on so they worked. A helix or nolix is in my future though. Probably in a new space.
So if I can do it you probably can too. In any event if you are at wits end send me the details of your room and what you thought you wanted and I'll take a crack at drawing a plan for nothing.
LocoRight now I can't figure out how to make helix in XTraCad for the world. And at this point I'm not sure if I care.
To make a helix in XtrkCAD, you just use the helix function. Which is really a glorified calclulator, which allows you to put in your desired radius, total elevation change, and height between layers, and then just gives you a full 2D circle at your desired radius to represent it. The helix button is located to the left of the turntable button. (Which is located to the left of the select and describe buttons) Usually, people represent different levels of a layout using different layers, such as one layer to represent staging, another for the lower deck of a layout, and possibly a third for an upper deck. Layers can be switched on and off (visible and invisible) with the number buttons at the top of the screen, and renamed by going to Manage -> Layers, or pressing CTRL+ALT+Y. I would suggest spending some more time with XtrkCAD, and taking ALL of the tutorials if you already haven't, because once you figure out all of the functions the program has to offer, I think it is an absolutely amazing program!
I use CAD for a living and yes, they all have a steep learning curve compared to other types of software.
Jake,
Awesome information!
Jake1210once you figure out all of the functions the program has to offer, I think it is an absolutely amazing program!
Absolutely...and FREE!
If you are serious, I'd like to try CADRail. I've learned 3rd PlanIt and XtrkCAD and Atlas RTS and I'd like to write a comparison article. Thanks, I'll pay shipping. (You keep the $100)
Thanks in Advance.
Chip
Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.
SpaceMouseI'd like to write a comparison article.
Hey Chip,
Any chance I might see that on your blog over at "that other forum"?
BTDTGTS (Been there, done that, got the shirt).
I can feel your mental anguish! I, too, have tried most of the CAD programs at one time or another with limited, VERY limited, success.
Recently, I downloaded RTS 8.0 (the latest version). I have had more success with that than any others, including the earlier versions of RTS. I don't know why. I can do some basic track-laying but haven't figured out how to do layers and elevations. Any other features RTS may have are totally alien to me!
None of the programs are intuitive and the learning curves are pretty steep, in my opinion. Or maybe I'm just getting too old.....
My recommendation? If you haven't tried the latest version of RTS, give it a try. It's not too difficult to learn the basics. If you're looking for track planning software with lots of bells and whistles, be prepared to spend half a lifetime learning it.
Darrell, quiet...for now
rrinker Anyway, ALL CAD programs have a learning curve. And quite frankly, some people just aren't cut out to use CAD programs. That doesn't mean they're less intelligent or anything, it's just that some people are better at 3D visualization than others - and if you aren't good at it, you're going to have a tough time with CAD programs of any sort.
Absolutley true! The 3D thing is my problem. (guess nobody has heard of torrent downloads...)
Thanks all. I’m feeling much better. After venting a bit to ya all, I left the computer, cats, and dog peacefully sleeping and the family let me back down stairs. And I thought I would share with you the little weekend night fun time that followed. Mom and Daughter bought me a train that we could put together! And you just got to check it out. So for all your kind and supportive words, here we have the Gingerbread Express Engine Number One From the UP Ozark Mountain Div. The team is preparing the foundation......
Work is a four letter word here on the OMD, and management strives to always keep the workers happyBut this is not to imply that an intense and focused dedication to the project would be less than superior. Naturally upper management must always conduct a battery of test to insure the quality of newly build motive power!Again, thanks for letting me get my frustrations out in the air and then get back to the REAL RRing.
SpaceMouseIf you are serious, I'd like to try CADRail. I've learned 3rd PlanIt and XtrkCAD and Atlas RTS and I'd like to write a comparison article. Thanks, I'll pay shipping. (You keep the $100) Thanks in Advance.
Absolutely SM I'll send you the program. I have an older version that I just updated here a few months ago. But I have all the docs and such. Shoot me a private e-mail. SO it is written, SO shall it be done.
And just so you all don't think I'm a total hack, this is what I have so far. Also might want to check out my thread "New Train Room Started" It's an odd room. But this last week the wife and I talked and I can drill through the stair blasters to make a full lower second level run!!!!! That will make sure a killer impression when walking up the stairs, then under a double main line bridge then up into the room!
Let's not be picking on the kitties. Cats love model railroads as they provide them with endless hours of entertainment.
Mainetrains
'there's something happening here, what it is ain't exactly clear' Modeling the Hard Knox Valley Railroad in HO scale http://photos.hardknoxvalley.com/
Loco-You need to swap out those peppermint wheels for butterscotch ones. They roll better and pick up less frosting!
And did you happen to notice the new pepermint Kadee coupler on the tender?!?
Yo, Space Mouse, drop me a line. Got the program (Ver 8) and the manual fer ya.
LocoAnd just so you all don't think I'm a total hack
Loco,
Heck you are almost there man! You can do this! Here I thought you were stumbling around in the dark but there is a bright light at the end of your tunnel!
loathar
Thanks so much for the anyrail link. I, too, have been thoroughly frustrated with layout design programs. I downloaded the trial version last night and will buy it tomorrow. Easy to learn, intutitive in nature, excellent libraries.
Bill
LocoAnyone want a free copy of CADRAIL??? I'm not kidding. If you can use it to design a layout for my room I give it to you plus $100 bucks. Heck, that will save me at least that much in vet bills!
Loco, LOL I feel your pain! I am trying to figuer out the Atlas 8.0 and all I cam seem to do is tie the flex track in knots!
Far as kicking the dog, hum, I think I would have medical bills my self!
I hate Rust
Now that's one dog I'd have to think real hard about punting!
FYI, hope ya all know I just use kicking the cat and punting the dogs to conie my utter frustration when trying to learn these programs. Heck, it's jsut an old saying... although I've given it my all when it a big fricking Black Angus Bull not wanting to cooperate.... like they even feel it.
And so it goes, we carry on.... maybe some day here I'll get back upstairs to finish painting the sky and install a few more track lights....