I'm all for the WS roadbed. I have used it exclusivley so far and have no complaints. It works well, flexs well, stays in place well with latex caulking. easy to cut and trim. I am just starting my Staging Yard and Classification Yard and have been contimplating what to do here. And for these larger areas my first attemp is going to be the track right on painted, with sand, ceiling tile, with styrofoam berms here and there around the Yards. The noisey part of the layout is where I have had to elevate the stryofoam base that is mainly set on hollow core doors. The elevated part is around a body of water and to my way of thinking the noise there is OK as noise travels easier over water anyway.
If I were to start again it still would include WS trackbed.
Johnboy out...........
The "Wobbly" wobbles on.
from Saskatchewan, in the Great White North..
We have met the enemy, and he is us............ (Pogo)
rrinker I used Woodland Scenics for the first time on my last layout. This is after using cork and every other layout I ever built. I'm going to keep using it. I liek the fact that it comes in long rolls so there are fewer joints, and that you don't have to split it down the middle. (you might if you are building a small layout with 18" radius curves - and it already has a slit for this) Before I started the layout I built a test section on a piece of extruded foam, half the track on some cork and hald on some track-bed. This piece of foam wasn;t attached to any framework, just set on a coupel of sawhorses, so it was about as loud as you can get. Rolling cars across, the noise noticeably dimished when it hit the track-bed. Others have reported the track-bed gets loud after ballasting - again on that test piece, I noticed it got QUIETER after I applied ballast. I used rubbing alcohol and white glue to fasten the balalst - probably not the ideal since white glue dries rather hard (although the leftover that dried int he cup I mixed it in was more rubbery than dried white glue usually is - the alcohol might have some effect). Acrylic matte medium is usually a better choice of ballast glue as it does stay somewhat rubbery. Based on this, I used track-bed on the entirety of my old 8x12 layout. HO under the main lines, N scale under the sidings with a ramp area so it wasn;t an abrupt change. All roadbed and track was held in place with latex caulk - also probably a factor in reducing noise. --Randy
I used Woodland Scenics for the first time on my last layout. This is after using cork and every other layout I ever built. I'm going to keep using it. I liek the fact that it comes in long rolls so there are fewer joints, and that you don't have to split it down the middle. (you might if you are building a small layout with 18" radius curves - and it already has a slit for this) Before I started the layout I built a test section on a piece of extruded foam, half the track on some cork and hald on some track-bed. This piece of foam wasn;t attached to any framework, just set on a coupel of sawhorses, so it was about as loud as you can get. Rolling cars across, the noise noticeably dimished when it hit the track-bed. Others have reported the track-bed gets loud after ballasting - again on that test piece, I noticed it got QUIETER after I applied ballast. I used rubbing alcohol and white glue to fasten the balalst - probably not the ideal since white glue dries rather hard (although the leftover that dried int he cup I mixed it in was more rubbery than dried white glue usually is - the alcohol might have some effect). Acrylic matte medium is usually a better choice of ballast glue as it does stay somewhat rubbery. Based on this, I used track-bed on the entirety of my old 8x12 layout. HO under the main lines, N scale under the sidings with a ramp area so it wasn;t an abrupt change. All roadbed and track was held in place with latex caulk - also probably a factor in reducing noise.
--Randy
Ditto on all counts. I am extremely pleased with the Trackbed product. The only issues I have had were self-inflicted due to a couple of poor laying habis underneath turnouts. I fixed those and it's been great. I used yellow wood glue to glue it to plywood and the track to the Trackbed foam. I've been able to reposition.reuse both foam and track just by using a simple putty knife to pull it up. I use an alcohol/water spray to wet the ballast then Elmers glue and water to glue it down. No problems with noise. In fact it is extremely quiet. I sed some Matte medium glue and water for the ballast but never really noticed a difference other than the cost . The long rolls are great, especially on long curves. Overall it goes down much quicker and with less mess than cork without the worries of crumbling or drying out.
Engineer Jeff NS Nut Visit my layout at: http://www.thebinks.com/trains/
loatharhe shoulder had a ton of jagged "flash" on it which was a pain to remove since you can't sand it.(like cork) It doesn't absorb scenic cement so my ballast tended to come off in chunks. Applying the ballast was more of a pain since it acted like a spongy spring board. The last 3' on the roll is pretty much useless since you can't get the wrinkled curl out of it.
Can't sand it? I've sanded the edge of mine with no problems-- I think it comes down to the "grit" of the sandpaper in question. Too harsh a sandpaper and I could see where you would tear chunks out of the roadbed.
Ballasting was no problem either. I "paint" the glue/water combo onto the sides of the roadbed and then pour a thin level of ballast out onto the glue/water. A couple layers later and it looks terrific in my opinion.
I've never had any "waste" on the end of the roll either. I just glue it down, as I do the rest of the roll and it behaves splendidly.
Here's one more vote for the WS.
Over 300 feet of it and no problems whatsover. It is glued to extruded foam with latex caulk and ballast applied using 70% isoproply for wetting and 1:4 Matte medium to glue. No clumps, nothing loose, trains run smoothly and noise is not bad - probably because the extruded is glued to 3/8" plywood to stop the soundboard effect. IMHO, once ballasted, there is little difference in sound from cork to the WS stuff. It's a function of the extruded foam itself rather than the roadbed. Also WS is a tad more flexible even after ballasting and easy to work with.
As Randy suggested, try both under your own field conditions. That should be the final determining factor.
Good luck,
Karl
The mind is like a parachute. It works better when it's open. www.stremy.net
I had a rather wild humidity swing, even using a dehumidifier in summer. My first test of ballasting, I tried the 'tried and true' method of adding a couple drops of detergent to water to make 'wet' water,a nd it failed miserable. Soaking the ballast with the wet water and then drippign on diluted glue, the glue just puddled on top and made a crust when dry. I also have hard water in my area. My next attempt, I simply diluted the glue with 70% rubbing alcohol. This time, as I dripped onthe glue, it soaked right in to the ballast and when dry the whole thing was solid through and through, not a mere crust on top. Casual attempts to pick itoff or press down on the track did not cause it to break away. I'm not saying a concerted effort to make it come off, or a huge heavy loco like a Bowser PRR T1 derailign on it wouldn't knock off some ballast, but it certainly was not goign to come off with normal train oepration.
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
When I built the new Yuba River Sub seven years ago, I used an all-foam base plus the WS risers and roadbed. So far, no trouble. I will admit that it is much 'spongier' than cork, but I live in a fairly dry climate, and have a railroad in a partially uninsulated garage ("California Basement"), and on my previous layout, the cork tended to get brittle and crumble easily. As far as ballasting, I found that by using 'wet' water (2 or 3 drops of liquid detergent to every spray bottle of water) and saturating the WS roadbed helped a lot in ballasting.
LIke Loathar, I have had a couple of problems with ballast sloughing off the roadbed in clumps in a couple of spots, but usually a re-application of the 'wet' water cures that fairly well.
I'm wondering if the success (or failure) of using WS roadbed might not have a connection to how high the humidity is in your particular area. I live in an area of low humidity, and the WS has served me well the past seven years, especially compared to cork, which for me, dries out FAR too quickly.
Tom
Tom View my layout photos! http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/TWhite-014/Rio%20Grande%20Yuba%20River%20Sub One can NEVER have too many Articulateds!
WS Track Bed really is a love it or hate it product. I'm probably in the minority that have no opintion one way or the other.
I used both cork and WS on my layout. Once ballasted, I can't tell where one ends and other begins. I do like that WS comes in 25' rolls. I also find it a tad easier to cut then cork.
Nick
Take a Ride on the Reading with the: Reading Company Technical & Historical Society http://www.readingrailroad.org/
Should be fine with that. The only change I'm making this time is that I've going with two layers of 2" foam instead of one. That way I can have more room for below the track features. Still no plywood. I also did inset the foam a bit, the old layout had a plain grid of 1x4's witht eh foam glued on top. The frames I made this time are still a basic grid, but the lengthwise members are 1x4 and the crosspieces are 1x3, so the front and back edge of the foam is slightly protected. Not sure this is going to make any useful difference, I just wanted to try something different.
RRinker,
Thanks, great suggestion. I'll post photos when I make more progress.
My layout foundation's base is 1/2" plywood with 2" thick Blue Foam resting on top of it. I'm going slow as this is the first time I've ever worked with foam.
I will most likely try your idea. .
"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"
Well, do what I did. Take a scrap of your base material, buy one of the 2' strips of the Woodland Scenics track bed, and either put it all in a line with half the track on cork and half on the track-bed, or put two parallel pieces of track down, one on each material. Try it yourself.
Soft is what makes the track bed quiet, unless you are hand spiking track that should not be an issue at all. Why anyone would nail regular track these days is beyond me, latex caulk is better in every respect. If I still had the 8x12 layout you would be more then welcome to come look at it and listen for yourself, the only 'noise' was the sssssssssssss of the metal wheelsets on the track. Motor noise from a quality loco? What motor noise? Heck I just put together a test track on a piece of shelf material, and I used track bed under the track. Glued with yellow glue - bot the track bed and the track on top of it. That is definitely not silenced, however it is way quieter than when I just had the track sitting on top of the shelf board..
Hmmmmm.
Leaves me in a bit of a pickle as I've been debating as to whether to go with cork on the WS product. I've been leaning more towards cork but was considering using the WS material on one section of my along-the-wall layout (currently under slow construction).
I've had the exact opposite experience as you. Mine is LOUD and it got LOUDER after I ballasted. It's soft and spongy. Doesn't give a good solid base. The shoulder had a ton of jagged "flash" on it which was a pain to remove since you can't sand it.(like cork) It doesn't absorb scenic cement so my ballast tended to come off in chunks. Applying the ballast was more of a pain since it acted like a spongy spring board. The last 3' on the roll is pretty much useless since you can't get the wrinkled curl out of it.People either love or hate the stuff. You can guess which group I belong to...PS-Mine is on 3/8" OSB on an elevation. If I wasn't so cheap, I'd rip it out and replace it. I threw 2 brand new rolls away.
?
Seriously, what is so horrible? I used it with ZERO problems.
But then I used extruded foam as a base with NO WOOD with no problems either. But why would these products work for me and not others? I certainly have no special training by manufacturers of any of these things, and in fact that 8x12 was the first time I tried either of them with a model railroad, every previous layout I built was plywood and cork. And I had a HORRIBLE experience using homasote. Oh forgot, I built one layout on shelving brackets using the high density kind of particle board - not the kind with big flakes of wood, the kind that is like sawdust bonded with a tough resin - I didn't cut it, the lumber yard did.
It's total CRAP! Don't use it! You'l be sorry...(and that's all I'm gonna say...)
hobojohn What is your opinion of cork vs. Woodland Scenics Track-Bed for one's roadbed?
What is your opinion of cork vs. Woodland Scenics Track-Bed for one's roadbed?
Can't say about the Woodland Scenics product, since I haven't used it. Here in the Dessicated Desert it doesn't take very long for cork to dry out and start to crumble away, so I consider it a non-starter. My personal choice is fan-fold underlayment (thin extruded foam) carved to roadbed contour with ye olde steak knife.
I actually have some of the WS Track-Bed - turnout blocks - and it hasn't lost its pliability after three years in the oven layout room. One of these days I'll have to try it.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)