Ok, spent part of the afternoon wandering through Lowes. As expected, the only 2x2's the sell are pressure treated ones intended for deck railings. No surprise there, I'll jus thave to get 2x4's and have them ripped, or just use 2x3's like I did before.
Now here comes the problem. Witht he previous layout, I didn't intend to move it anywhere with the legs the way they were. So I added no levelling options. I just clamped the legs insto position and leveled everything, then drilled holes to bolt them on. However, my apartment has hardwood floors, so I need some sort of part on the bottom that I can set inside those furniture cups to keep from scratching the floor. The traditional method is to drill a hole in the bottom of the leg, hammer in a T nut, and screw in a carriage bolt. So I visited the hardware section of Lowes where they keep these kinds of things, and got a sever case of sticker shock. A T nut is over $3 EACH. The carriage bolts come in packs of 4, but that's about $8. So $5 each just for the hardware, plus the wood, plus the floor protector. I think I need some alternatives here. I suppose I could get the cheap tap-in felt pads and drive those into the bottom of a leg and then level it and make it a fixed leg like my previous layout. Any other bright ideas?
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
How much is a bundle of cedar door frame shims? Long and narrow...should do the job for you, particularly if you run two side-by-side in the opposite direction under each leg. They'll be quite stable.
-Crandell
Hi Randy: Maybe you could just drill a hole in the bottom of the leg, and screw in a lag bolt. That's what I used on my layout.
First thing i thought of is look for a cheaper store like 9horror of horrors!) Walmart. Watch for sky to fall...
But I almost would think the fixed approach might save a headache. I didn't think carriage bolts would go for that much... ergh....
Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry
I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...
http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/
rrinkerA T nut is over $3 EACH. The carriage bolts come in packs of 4, but that's about $8.
Wow. Are they really that much now? Did you happen to check the prices at one of the small hardware stores where they sell this stuff by the piece?
I'm sure that the 3/8" lag bolts I used weren't that expensive! And my wife picked up a four-pack of those furniture leg saucers for under $2 at Wal-*art.
Of course, I bought my lag bolts at Home Desperate, not Lowe's.
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
Hi!
I too used 2x2 legs, and put rubber furniture pads under each. It worked like a charm, but of course the layout was never moved. All the screw type adjusters I've seen will cost you dearly. The one suggestion to use wood shingle shims "2 pieces facing each other on a leg" may be your best bet.
By the way, the Lowes down here does sell regular 2x2s, but they tend to be "hidden". Frankly most are warped, and it took me quite awhile to get all I needed 14 years ago when I built the present layout. Like you indicated, you might be much better off with good 2x4s ripped with a quality blade.
Hope it works out!
Mobilman44
ENJOY !
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
I'm beginnign to think 1x4's or maybe even 1x3's would work fine for legs. The whole thing is lightweight - extruded foam, so why not? I can get the slightly better grade pieces like I did for the frames, it's much more solid and straight. Plus it comes in already cut 4' lengths - would make the base track height 52" which is about right where I want it. Add some 1x2's for bracing.. bottom of each would get one of those cheap nail-in floor protectors.
Randy,
You're looking for your items at the wrong store....
Here are your t-nuts at $0.25 per unit:
http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?Offerings_ID=1592 You want item 26054.
Here are the felt covered levelers:
http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?Offerings_ID=5821 Only $0.90 per unit.
Don Z.
Research; it's not just for geeks.
The hardware store where I bought my T nuts and carriage bolts for leveling my 2x2 legs had them available in quantity in boxes that were considerably cheaper than the separate prices you quote, which sound very very wrong to me.
On the subject of legs, I have used 2x2s -- some of them ripped from 2x4s but others squared on every edge. The quality kept getting worse and worse (someone told me that the fast growing planatation pines yield this poor quality lumber) and some of them looked like cooked bacon. Fortunately I had most of what I needed when the quality really took a nose dive. But at about that time Jim Hediger of MR had an article about a layout he built that had legs ripped from plywood, formed into an "L" and screwed or glued together. I built two workbenches for my artist wife entirely out of 5/8" plywood, including the legs. They are surprisingly sturdy. Where I needed to adjust the height I used adhesive backed felt to build up height,
Dave Nelson
I decided to forgo leveling the benchwork perfectly. I got the benchwork resonably level and used risers to level (or unlevel) the trackwork. The tops of my legs stand proud of the benchwork about 2 inches, and have a series of holes about 1 inch apart, so I can make rough adjustments to the benchwork.
Nick
Take a Ride on the Reading with the: Reading Company Technical & Historical Society http://www.readingrailroad.org/
I spend so much time in Lowes I should have my own parking space, that being said I'm sure your looking at the nice shiny plated hardware. Unless your building a boat and need the protection of plating go with the non plated or even galvanized hardware a whole lot less expensive. As far as T-nuts go how many legs are you talking about 4, 6, 8? if it's what you want spend the money now or you'll be kicking yourself every time you look at them. As far as leveling goes why do you need the adjustment in the first place? Level the bench work by using a couple of spring clamps first, get it exactly where you want it and drill a pilot hole and use a couple of deck screws to hold the leg in place. Now drill your hole and set your carriage bolt and tighten em up. Unless you plan on moving the layout there should be no need for levelers. If you worried about scratching the hardwood floors find a carpet remnant and cut a few small squares and slip one under each leg. Even a couple of wraps of good Duct tape with prevent the legs from scratching the floor.
Believe it or not......
http://www.asseenontv.com/prod-pages/Movingmen.html
I have 4 of the mini sliders under my layout, these things are unbelievable, I can move my layout very easily and cheaply. Once you use them, you will never go without. I have moved tons of house hold things so easily its like they are on wheels.
MHO
"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."-Albert Einstein
http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/
Problem (mostly) solved. Dunno what's up with Lowes, but I was at Home Depot tonight and the t-nuts there are less than a quarter each. Carriage bolts - 18 cents. I guess I will have to shop both to get the things I need - Lowes has decent quality pine for only a little more than their 'normal' (read 'useless') grade stuff, and offier it cut to various shorter lengths. But they don;t have 2" extruded foam and as seen above some of their hardware prices are literally nuts. Home Depot has good prices on the hardware, and they carry the 2" foam, but they only have the better quality lumber is full 8' lengths. Home Depot does have 2x2's, but after pickign through a dozena nd stuill not finding a single straight one, I gave up. They have 2x2's in hardwoods, but at 2.75 a foot - forget it. Overkill anyway. 2x3's like the last layout, or maybe ripped 2x4's if they'll cut them for me.
As I may have wrote earlier, we have a Lowes and Home Depot within a half block of each other and about 2 miles from the house. I'm a regular at both, and you used to typically find the stuff for "new and pretty" at Lowes, and basic construction and repair at Home Depot. But, not always, as they have changed a bit over the last few years.
When I built the existing layout 14 years ago, I spent a lot of time with my # 2 son going thru the delivered bundles of 2x2s. We managed to get enough for the 36 legs, but finding that decent piece of wood was a real hunt.
Quick story..... I've got a lot of tools and equipment, but never got a table saw as it took up too much room (and the large band saw and chop saw handle most of my needs). But, when it came time to build the layout I needed one, and got a Craftsman thru the local neighborhood resale paper for $150, and the guy brought it to the house for me to boot! After I finished the benchwork, I put it back up for sale and sold it for $175, and of course the buyer came and picked it up! Maybe you could do something like that and make it worthwhile.
ENJOY,
I would also suggest the lag bolts and the protectors.
Jay
C-415 Build: https://imageshack.com/a/tShC/1
Other builds: https://imageshack.com/my/albums
McMaster-Car sells T-nuts really cheap. They have a box of 100, zinc plated T-nuts for 1/4" bolts for $6.52. I use T-Nuts frequently on various projects out in the garage. My benchwork for my trains is put together with T-Nuts (legs to frame, section to section), in case I ever have to take it town to move it (I am in the military, so a move is very probable). I buy boxes of T-nuts from them (mail order off internet) in a few different sizes and just keep them on hand.
As for the floor protector, try cutting small squares of some scrap wood (cut offs from the legs?) and drill into them slightly with a forestner bit (or regular bit if that's all you have), fill that cavity with some epoxy and then glue it to the head of the carriage bolt that will be screwed into the bottom of the leg. taper the edges of it a little, maybe glue some felt or carpet scraps under them and you are good to go.
I made the legs on mine fixed. I glued carpet strips to the bottoms of the legs so they don't leave an impression in the linoleum tiles. Liquid Nails worked great for this.
Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running BearSpace Mouse for president!15 year veteran fire fighterCollector of Apple //e'sRunning Bear EnterprisesHistory Channel Club life member.beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam
Think I will make the legs the way they did for the Beer Line modules. Basically a little L girder with a 1x3 and 1x2, with a piece of 2x2 at the bottom for the foot. MR used casters, I'll use the T nuts and carriage bolts. Not sure that floor-level 1x2 between the leg sets is needed - I'd probably extend the diagonal braces a little lower ont he leg for better support. This also solves the problem of junk 2x2's - I can just find the best of a bad bunch and it won't matter too much if it's slightly warped over the entire length, as I will only be cutting off short pieces to fasten at the bottom of the leg.
You know I've been following this post becasue I have to sort this out soon, but...
I can't get the Zappa song outta my head....
I got a big dilema about my big leg Emma, uh-uh-huh
Chip
Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.
Randy, could you please post a picture; I don't think I've ever seen a gold plated T-Nut before!
Go to Ace Hardware and buy some elevator bolts. Admittedly it was about ten years ago but I bought twenty-six of them and paid about nineteen smackers tax and all
From the far, far reaches of the wild, wild west I am: rtpoteet
Randy, your thin, or mini, L-girder legs is the way I went with my current layout. Can't say I have any regrets.
I used 1X4 lengths of clear spruce from which I ripped 1" lengths. The ripped lengths were then joined after being cut to the right length to form the L-girders.
R. T. POTEET Randy, could you please post a picture; I don't think I've ever seen a gold plated T-Nut before! Go to Ace Hardware and buy some elevator bolts. Admittedly it was about ten years ago but I bought twenty-six of them and paid about nineteen smackers tax and all
If I remember, next time I'm at Lowe's I'll take a picture. It's possible they were mis-marked, by at least a factor of 10. Or they put the price for a pack of 12 on the singles. I found that at Home Depot for a much more reasonable price, measured in cents rather than dollars. Thing is, the Lowe's ones weren't gold plated, or brass, just the same ordinary plain metal (maybe galvanized) that the Home Depot ones are.
Raised on the Erie Lackawanna Mainline- Supt. of the Black River Transfer & Terminal R.R.
Whoever said "you can never have too many clamps" was right on the money. I was sure I wouldn;t have enough, so when I picked up the wood required to build my legs and braces I perused the clamp section and picked up a couple very nice adjustable spring clamps for less than $5 each. And went back and grabbed a third ebcause I figures, no way is 2 enough (plus other metal C clamps I already have).
I should have gone back and grabbed maybe 6 more instead. I now have 2 leg assemblies waiting for the glue to dry and I'm out of clamps with plenty of juice still left in the first battery of my drill. I realize I can probably remove the clamps once the screws are driven in, just call me overcautious. I kept the clamps on the ends because I kept screws away from the ends - need to mound the leg to teh frame and it would eb tough drillign through a drywall screw, and on the bottom side I left room to attach a block of 2x2 in which to mount the T nut. Which by the way I found at Lowes (the 2x2), back with the really junky 'furring strip' grade wood. I just picked the least twisted one and had them cut it approximately in half so it would fit in my car, since I'm only going to cut off small lengths it's not so bad that they aren't nice and straight. I picked through the rather small pile of them and there's not a single one I would have used for a leg, some had 90 degrees of twist in them! And as a side note, if I was buildign a deck I'm use the recycled palstic type of stuff because the pressure treated 2x2's they had were even WORSE. I don't know how anyone can build somethign with this junk. The 1x3's and 1x2's I pulled from the 'select' section (they also had maple and I think oak) and all were straight and smooth, so you CAN get decent lumber there, but it also costs. I'm paying somewhat for convenience as well, since I can;t fit 8' pieces of wood in my car I just bought all 4' pieces for the legs so all I have to do is glue and screw them together. An 8' section of the same grade is only about 50% more than the 4' piece.
And yet I managed - major milestone, module #1 is standing on its own 4 legs! I still have to make the diagonal braces, but it's actually quite sturdy as-is, with the L girder legs. Pictures have been taken, I'm REALLY trying to fully document the construction this time. Still have to get them uploaded to the web site.
I also had the problem of finding straight 2x2's. I decided to use the pressure treated ones that are meant for deck railings. I painted them anyway, so it wasn't a big deal. The 2x2's in the furring section reminded me of a piece of licorice! I know the original question has been solved, but I thought I'd chime in anyway.