OK, how hard should it be to get soem DECENT plywood to have sawn up into 'dimensional' lumber? Obviously if all you have around are big box stores, the answer is "very". I don't need a full 4x8 sheet, that makes so many 1x4's I have no idea what I'd do with them all - I want to build a pair of 2'x4' modules, that's all. I can get enough 1x4's for that from a single 2'x4' quarter sheet of plywood. I basically have a choice between Lowes and Home Depot. Home Depot - they have 4x8 sheets of semi-good Birch, all their small "handy sheets" are rather junky materials or only thin - I need 3/4" thick. But HD has the 2" pink extruded foam. HD also charges for any cuts past the second one - cutting all the peices to size, I need 13 cuts total. Lowes, well, on their web site they list some 4x4 and 2x4 sheets of various hardwood plywood - but they do not carry those products in any stores around here. I guess we're not worthy of quality lumber. Not out of stock - it says they do not sell it in this store when I check all the local stores. Lowes, as far as I know, does not charge to saw up your wood. But they don't carry any extruded foam insulation - well, they have 4x8x.5" sheets of the Dow blue stuff. I was looking for the 2" thick stuff in the more convenient 2x8 size like the Owens Corning.
At this rate I'm gonna bag this idea of using plywood and just suck it up with the regular 1x4 pine lumber. I can get the 8 footers cut in half to ease transport and a hand saw is adequate to cut the cross pieces to length - I did all the benchwork for my old 8x12 layout with a handsaw and it was a one weekend project. 6 cuts won;t take long at all. Had no issues with warping, either - once I dug through and picked out the few straight boards I could find.
<insert every explitive deleted smiley here>
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
I once had a problem with HD and wrote the home office a very short but to the point letter about it. What I had done was cut a piece of stock counter top wrong and needed a replacement and HD was out of this “stock” item and wanted to charge a special fee to order it.
I did found the item at another store and picked it up later that day after I had written the home office explaining my problem. I was extremely polite in this letter. The next morning the “Manager” called my home saying “Mr. so and so, we have your counter top, where would you like it delivered?”
Johnnny_reb Once a word is spoken it can not be unspoken!
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Randy,
If you have a cabinet shop in your town swing by and ask them if they have any scraps the size you need. Or how much they would sell and cut what you need. Most cabinet shops have plenty of extra they will just about give you for free. Buy him lunch or a 6 pack and you might have a supplier for life. A friend of mine is a cabinet maker and my last project (almost finished) was made from total scrap except for the drawer slides . good luck
Glenn
None of the big boxes in Atlanta have the cabinet grade stuff in 2x4 sheets either. However, HD does have a product called Sandeply that is made in Chili or made out of hot dog Chili or something like that. I have used the Sandeplay along with my birch and while at first I thought it was not good quality, once I got to assembling it I relized it was actually pretty good (though by no means a true cabinet grade hardwood). It is about $7 less for a full sheet and it is available in 2x4 sections as well. This was a big savings for me because similar to you, I only needed a few more ripped 1x3s to complete my benchwork and did not have to spend $50 on an entire full sheet. Jamie
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I did see the 'sandply' at my local HD. And the first thing I noticed was the big void in the middle ply on the first piece I pulled out of the bin. On one hand, I'm thinking it probably would be plenty strong regardless, on the other I'm thinking it will almost certainly require nailer blocks at the corners rather than screwing right in to the endgrain like you can do with the hardwood stuff (predrilled holes regardless). Which of course brings me right back to doing at least some sawing at home.
Keep in mind I'mnot being lazy about cutting, nor am I afraid of cutting. If I lived in a single family home I would just buy a few tools and go at it - in fact I actually enjoy woodworking. My dream ideal 'train room' would be a 3-4 car garage with a shop on the end, with a complete upstaurs to be the train room. That shop would have a bunch of the tools Norm Abrams has in his shop. I was the computer nerd who took woodshop in high school just because I enjoy it.
I can see a benefit of the nailing blocks though, if I'm careful with the cuts and alignment of them they'll be an extra place to attach the top - not that I'm worried about it coming apart, my previous layout was made up of 2x8' box frames (cross braces 2' OC), and the foam was glued on with yellow glue all along the edges of the 1x4's. More than once I banged into it from the bottom while crawling under and noneof the joints ever came loose. At any rate, I can probably grab a piece outof their scrap bin for cheap to cut up to make nailer blocks.
rrinker I did see the 'sandply' at my local HD. And the first thing I noticed was the big void in the middle ply on the first piece I pulled out of the bin.
I did see the 'sandply' at my local HD. And the first thing I noticed was the big void in the middle ply on the first piece I pulled out of the bin.
Every piece of plywood I have ever bought from HD has had voids and they are alos very inconsistant on thickness. I have had to do alot of shimming on my RR to get everything to line up. I found a distributer locally that I buy from now, but you may not have that option.
Check out the Deming Sub by clicking on the pics:
Randy, have you considered going to steel for your framework?
Except for cookie-cut subroadbed and foam between that and the ties, I have switched to steel stud material for all my framing needs. Steel studs and headers are readily available, cut with snips, assemble with little bitty screws and don't take on exotic shapes when exposed to desert heat and (lack of) humidity. The best part is that even the Big Box building material emporia can't screw them up!
Just my . Other ideas will differ.
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - on steel benchwork)
I've thought about it. I guess I still can't convince myself that once it's assembled it's actually plenty stiff enough - I don't use plywood, only extruded foam. Even with plenty of evidence showing benchwork made with steel studs, I guess I don't quite believe it works. I haven't seen any layouts in person built that way. However, every time I walk in HD I stop and look at the steel stud materials and ponder. But they CAN screw it up - or maybe it's the customers screwing it up - there's always a bunch of kinked ones on top of the pile Dimensionally stable for sure - which should be an ideal match with extruded foam. Although I've had no issues with ordinary dimensional lumber with a rather wide humidty swing - in my former basement a dehumidifier was absolutely required during the summer just to keep the humidity in the 60-70% range, in winter by rights I should have had a humidifier as it typically was in the 20-30% range. No problems with the (typically crappy) lumber warping or otherwise moving under the foam.
If there is one available, go to a quality lumber yard. You will pay more but get better lumber and the service you need. And you will save time and spare yourself aggravation. (At least, you should!)
danteIf there is one available, go to a quality lumber yard. You will pay more but get better lumber and the service you need. And you will save time and spare yourself aggravation. (At least, you should!)
"At least you should" is the operative term. There is a non-big box lumber yard/builders supply near me. The feeling I get when I go in there is that they are annoyed to have to stop what they're doing to wait on me. I suspect that the fact that I'm there looking for a couple straight pieces of lumber when they want to be dealing with the big contractor's purchases has something to do with it. And they're not exactly letting me pick and choose my lumber either. You pay for the wood first, and then you take your ticket into the back where the warehouse guy hands you your purchase.
And contrary to popular belief, the local Home depot near me does have some good lumber. It's in the "select" wood bins. The only problem is that it is twice the price of the usual #2 pine grade. I understand the concept of getting what you pay for, but it is sometimes hard to justify using better lumber to frame the model railroad than what was used to frame my house.
When I went Lowes cut my plywood for free and I had probably about 4 cuts, not sure if it has changed since then... Do you have an 84 Lumber near you, I see you live in PA but not sure how widespread the chain of stores is.
Well it's all a moot point. I went to the local Lowes, since HD didn;t have any decent quality plywood, and while the Lowes indeed did have some nice Luan, 18mm (close to 3/4"), and even available in 2x4 quarter sheets, exactly what I needed - they now charge for cutting - contrary to their web site, btw. But the sign was there at the saw, 2 cuts per customer, after that, 25 cents per cut (half the price of Hoem Depot though). I checked out the quality lumber section, they had all sorts of hard and softwood in 1x2, 1x3, 1x4, and 1x6. And in pieces shorter than 8'. I ended up getting 4 pieces 4' long of the 'select' ping in 1x4, and 3 pieces in 1x3, plus a hand miter box and saw - took me, oh, 5 minutes to cut the 1x3's in half and now I have a small stack of wood waiting assembly. About double the price of the #2 pine, but I don;t think there was a straight one in the bin. I'll pay the extra for the convenience of pieces small enough to take in my car. Next step, see if I can get the 2x8 sheets of pink extruded foam cut in half. Worst case, I'll take my square and a knife or hacksaw blade along when I buy it, and cut it in the parking lot. I just have no way of transporting a 2x8 chunk of anything - it was an adventure ont he previous layout even with a Grand Cherokee - it still stuck out the back and it wasn;t fun hanging on to it while on the highway.
rrinkerNext step, see if I can get the 2x8 sheets of pink extruded foam cut in half. Worst case, I'll take my square and a knife or hacksaw blade along when I buy it, and cut it in the parking lot.
Just don't try to do his on a windy day..............you're likely to be chasing the cut-off end to Pottstown.
I'll donn my flame-retardant suit and say this... if you are looking for cheap prices, be prepared to pay for extra services like cutting wood to size, etc.
When I framed my layout, I went to the local Lowes, picked out what I needed then paid to have three sheets ripped into 1x3s and 1x4s. With my preplanning, I pretty much knew what I needed down to within about 1 strip of each so I didn't have a whole lot left over. I don't remember if I paid 25¢ or 50¢ per cut but it was well worth it to me. Sure as heck much cheaper than buying a saw and ruining it myself. : )
People are expensive to have running around and those great big saws that can handle an entire sheet of plywood aren't cheap either. You know as well as I do that if they cut the stuff for free, some jerk would come in and want a sheet cut into strips about half an inch wide... then b*tch if they weren't perfect. Unfortunately, I've dealt with the public way too much to know that this is true.
BTW, when I left the store, my bill was well over $225... and I thought I'd gotten a deal!
To each, his own...
dlm
Randy, I went to a smaller independent, and I got them to rip my 4 X 8 of 1/4" MDF into 15/16" strips. The clerk asked me if $10 was okay for the job, and I said sure. They took all the risks, they bought the saw and blade, they had the mess lying around (MDF!!), and I walked away with enough droopy 8' splines to do my 50' folded loop, plus 25' total of a mine switch-back and a sawmill spur.
I always pick my lumber, but from the outdoors pile. The folks I'm talking about were most supportive and knew I didn't want crap. Who does? They stood by for a few minutes until they were sure I could help myself, and then wandered in search of other customers. I like it that way.
-Crandell
Another option, one I plan to use since my carpentry skills are sorely lacking, is to find a local carpenter you know and trust. Tell him what you want for wood and let him go to the lumber yard, big box store whatever to get it. Then have him cut it to your specifications. Local guys like that who rely on word of mouth to get business do a good job 99 times out of a hundred.
Mainetrains
'there's something happening here, what it is ain't exactly clear' Modeling the Hard Knox Valley Railroad in HO scale http://photos.hardknoxvalley.com/
mainetrains Another option, one I plan to use since my carpentry skills are sorely lacking, is to find a local carpenter you know and trust. Tell him what you want for wood and let him go to the lumber yard, big box store whatever to get it. Then have him cut it to your specifications. Local guys like that who rely on word of mouth to get business do a good job 99 times out of a hundred. Mainetrains
Maintrains, perhaps a better option would be to contact Sievers benchwork - they advertise in MR - and you can order what you want. A local carpenter will probably charge you as much for his time and the material as Sievers.
To All, I was a carpenter/cabinetmaker for over 40 years, and worked at Home Despot (not a typo) for 8 1/2 years after "retirement". Lowes & HD are downsizing their staffing - getting rid of some of their most "experienced people" (read higher paid). The quality and service in any of these big boxes is directly related to the level of incompetence that the store manager has achieved! The "company" managers are interested only in the bottom line - customer service or material quality be damned!! Drive around the back of one of these stores and see how much lumber/plywood is stored outside - uncovered!! Your local lumber yard will usually be a better value - not lower prices, but higher quality material and service. Understand that a lumberyard will cater to the contracter - some spend thousands of dollars a month - or even per week. Don't go there between 6 and 9AM - that's when the contractors want to get their material and get to the job site. Don't go there after 330 or 4PM - they get busy then also. Try to go on a weekday, but if you can't do the 10AM to 3PM hours go on Saturday - they expect the "weekend warriors" then!! Like most things in life, you get what you pay for!!
I use plywood ripped into 1 X 4 s to construct my layout. Neither LOWES or Home Depot will cut the lumber for me. I offered to pay for the service and the answere was no. I went to a small town lumber yard and paid to have my plwood cut. They charged me $50 labor to cut six sheets of plywood.
Jim, Modeling the Kansas City Southern Lines in HO scale.
I've got one big box lumber store in my town and I've noticed that they have sub par lumber when it comes to building things. (full of knots, warped, etc) Thankfully I have a couple of Do-it-best stores around me that are much better than the big box store when it comes to quality of product as well as customer service.
Modeling the N&W freelanced at the height of their steam era in HO.
Daniel G.
Our local Lowe's carries AC cabinet grade, BC, Birch and Oak plywood in 3/4 inch and 15/32 dimansions and yes, they will cut it. A Lowe's across town will not.
If you are dead set on using plywood, here are some options:
1. Buy or rent a table saw and acquire the skill necessary. It isn't that difficult.
2. Visit a local cabinetmaker and pay to have the cuts made. Most cabinetmakers or woodworkers will gladly make these cuts, and because of their skill, you know the cuts will be right.
3. Ask around and see if there are any woodworking hobbyists who will take on the job. Otherwise, poll your friends and see if anyone of them is a woodworker will some skill.
Otherwise, and I think DonZ will probably agree (and we have all seen his skill posted to this board) that a good grade of poplar will do the trick as well as any plywood, and after charges for cuts on the plywood, the cost probably works out the same or a little less for the poplar. Poplar is available in 1 x 2, 1 x 3, 1 x 4 and other sizes (nominal). Buy it at a lumber yard, as Home Depot and Lowes get decent stuff but do not store it properly. Straight pieces can be hard to find.
Since this seems to be the thread that won't die
1. I AM familiar with various woodworking tools and their use. My problem is right now I am living in an apartment and can't very well set up a table saw in here.
2 and 3, options, but a tough call because I KNOW I know how to do it, more frustrating that my situation does not allow me to have the tools I would like to have.
End result is, Lowes, unlike Home Depot, has nice decent lumber in shorter lengths. And better quality than the 8 and 10 foot cheap pine they both sell. So I bought some 4 foot lengths and a hand miter box. The 4 foot sides I used as is, and then I cut the others in half to make my cross pieces. Problem solved for now.
I've found a way to get things done for free. Act kind of nebbishlike.
Actually, learning to do the cutting myself has saved me a whole bundle of aggro. I can now say I know how to do this...
Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry
I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...
http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/
Hi!
Living here just north of Houston, I have easy access to a Home Depot & Lowes (next to each other) as well as some lumber yards further north, and a couple of specialty stores in Houston. Your complaint is understood, as I have come to realize you cannot consistently find quality wood at either L or HD. However, I do have the freedom when shopping there to go through stacks of wood in search of "the best pieces", which is something some lumber yards will not allow. I guess what it comes down to is that L & HD are selling what sells most, and if you want hard to find or better quality items, to a specialty store we must go.
Been there, done that!
Mobilman44
ENJOY !
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
Eyeball a few flatbed trucks that deliver to those big box stores. They get thier lumber off the team track off the railcars as it was in my case. I used to haul the stuff. Sometimes tarped, sometimes not.
I bought a sears 5 inch saw. Im actually afraid of it because if you let it get out of control, it can butcher you. However am learning to do cuts more or less within a tolerance of good enough.
The big boxes in my area eyeball you funny when you want a cut. Fortunately there was a cabinet maker not far to the south that knows how to cut (And get to) quality wood.
Finally but not last, there are sources of wood in contractor type supply houses that get tossed onto trucks and thrown down in fields where houses are due to be built. The worst cases are those larger commercial places that chose to use wood and not steel framing.
Im not knocking too much on wood, but in this area, you get something you can use if you are lucky.
Eventually show up with sufficient cash, and it greases the wheels to make the world go around nicely.
Did you get the answer to your question?
My personal opinion is that everyone needs a skilsaw and a chalkline. But lumberyards will always cut for you.
Sue
Anything is possible if you do not know what you are talking about.
welcome back my friends to the thread that never ends.. (apologies to Greg Lake )
By the time this thread ends, I'll have a full basement and have it filled with a layout. I need more than a chalk line and a Skilsaw - i need a Norm Abrams workshop - seriously - I love to make things with wood. I just got some of the slightly more expensive but far better quality stuff and went from there. All I need now is a track plan..
We used 3rd Planit.
You might want to design the layout before you build the benchwork.
I use 3rd PlanIt as well. I only have room for a couple of small modules, so it really doesn't matter what I do first. Even a large room filling plan - my idea is to once again, as I did on my previous 8x12 layout, make it in modular sections that could possibly be moved if required. The 8x12 was composed of 2x8 foot modules, fitting a full piece of 2" foam on top, but since I don;t really have a way to move an 8 foot long section out of this apartment I'm using smaller pieces, for now. Think of it as N-Trak without the main line standards - you can put together a dozen modules before you even lay one inch of track because they are all the same size. What goes on top, that's where you need the plan.
jamnest I use plywood ripped into 1 X 4 s to construct my layout. Neither LOWES or Home Depot will cut the lumber for me. I offered to pay for the service and the answere was no. I went to a small town lumber yard and paid to have my plwood cut. They charged me $50 labor to cut six sheets of plywood.