QUOTE: Originally posted by gsetter [?] Did you start from scrap or do you buy a kit?
QUOTE: [?] What advice or opinions do you have for handlaying turnouts?
QUOTE: [?] Were you happy with the results?
QUOTE: [?] Have you done or tried something more complicated like a double slip switch?
Rob Spangler
QUOTE: Originally posted by wp8thsub Except for the throwbar, I don't use PC board ties.
QUOTE: ......I also don't use jigs for assembly or preparing parts. If you use a template for installing the ties and marking a few key locations like the frog point, jigs aren't necessary for rail assembly
QUOTE: Don't expect the first one to turn out (no pun intended) perfect. Allow yourself to get better with practice.
QUOTE: .....(hand laying) gave me trackwork that I couldn't obtain commercially for any price.
QUOTE: Originally posted by tpaulsen I was having substantial problems with several manufacturers turnouts on my layout. The biggest problem was a loosening of the pivot on the point rails.
QUOTE: This is not an easy fix on a layout that is scenicked and detailed. Fix one thing, destroy something else.
QUOTE: I can only suggest you get a copy of the article and judge for yourself.
QUOTE: Just because I am happy with hand-built turnouts does not mean anyone else will be.
QUOTE: Keep the siderods greased.
QUOTE: QUOTE: Originally posted by wp8thsub Except for the throwbar, I don't use PC board ties. Is this just a personal preference or because of added cost?
QUOTE: QUOTE: ......I also don't use jigs for assembly or preparing parts. If you use a template for installing the ties and marking a few key locations like the frog point, jigs aren't necessary for rail assembly I priced jigs and template and they're not cheap. However would it help a first timer?
QUOTE: If a jig isn't necessary for rail prep and assembly, what do you use to check the angle for cutting the frog and for the switch points? For checking the angles for the wing rails at the knuckles? How is the closure rail and stock rail for the diverging route located?
QUOTE: Are your closure rails and point rails one piece or are they seperate pieces spiked at the heel? Do you build the turnouts in place or on the work bench?
QUOTE: How long have you been practicing hand laying turnouts?
Instead of starting a new thread, I searched and found this one. I started by scratch switch building experience with a big boy first, a N scale 3 way turn out. I only have one more frog to solder in and the cooresponding guardrails and I've got it made.
Key items: if I can do it, so can you. I learned how to solder last night for the first time, read some directions and off you go. #2: patience: yes it's difficult, but not so much if you take your time, use your gauge and keep going. #3: Manufactured turnouts, I don't think so, this thing is so cheap to build and I have so much satisfaction just looking at it that I won't go back.
Tools: Good files, hacksaw blade, printed templates, NMRA gauge, iron and solder and a weight or a third hand to hold down your progress on the template.
I'll post a picture of my completed switch when it's done.
Hi from Belgium,
I have always use commercialy track for my Nscale Maclau River RR ,but a few years ago I was hooked by handlay track.
I make a lot of try ,with I admit ,very poor results because of the lot of adjustment needed, especialy in Nscale; you know turnouts in nscale are......tiny.
Lot had been say about it,but know I use the Fastrack .jigs system and I am absolutely convinced by their products.
They offer the jigs, tools to make the points, tools to make the frog, PC ties and a lot of other things which can help you to build turnouts. Many tips and helps can be found on their webside and on the blog of Tim Warris about his Bronx Terminal, to handlay turnouts.
With this system you could build realistic turnouts with NMRA tolerance, Dcc friendly, in the easy way even in a first try.
The turnouts you build with the jigs are accurate and don't need a lot of adjustements, even to say no adjustements.
In the small scale like me they are very helpful; they offer a whole range of type of turnouts in all the popular scale even dual gauge turnouts.
I must admit it; the system is quite expensive when you need to buy the first jig and tools. But when you have made more than 15 turnouts, the price by piece is low.
A little method is necessary to build the turnouts; I prefer to prepare a lot of pieces to build a batch of turnouts in the same time, because your hands and eyes take the way to do it easily. I prepare the pieces accurately and in a finished state ready to put in the jig. Second I built the turnouts in series because again you take the way to do it easily.
In conclusion this system, even quite a bit expensive, could give you excellent results in a first try especialy in the small scale.
Following a shot of a batch of pieces I made outside under the sun a few days ago to build some 12 turnouts in serie.
Fastrack web site: www.handlaidtrack.com
Marc
M
gsetterIn the Midieval Days of model railroading, hand laying track and turnouts was common, if not the only means available. Commercially built turnouts made things easier for more people to build a layout and the science of handlaying track all but disappeard.
Baloney. Its been out there all along, just because you haven't noticed the articles in the magazines (and there have been dozens) doesn't mean its disappeared.
Did you start from scrap or do you buy a kit?
I start from scratch, not scrap. I buy wood ties, spickes and rail. I use paper templates to layout the switches. I bought a 1922 track manual for my prototype on e-bay and it had diagrams of switches from #3 to #14 (yes, I said #3). I reduced them to HO scale and that's my templates.
What advice or opinions do you have for handlaying turnouts?
Take your time. Its not a race. Don't be afraid to try new things and different methods. I don't think I have built switches exactly the same way on any two layouts I've worked on.
Were you happy with the results?
Wouldn't still be doing it if I wasn't happy.
Have you done or tried something more complicated like a double slip switch?
I have done several lap switches, but never a double slip (don't particularly like them and haven't found one in the area I model).
Dave H.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
I build frogs on the workbench. Here's how I do it.
On a piece of homasote i glue a piece of paper. I draw two lines crossing at the frog ratio. I spike a temporary piece of rail along one line and then spike a rail to gauge from the temp rail.I remove the temp rail and respike it along the other frog line and spike a rail to gauge from that temp rail. That gives me the two rails spiked as below. This fixture is good for a dozen or so frogs. It looks like the drawing below. The horizontal line i will call the "straight" rail or route and the other one the diverging rail or route.
I then spike the frog rails in gauge to the to rails.
I make a wing rail for the straight side, putting in the bend and flare before lay the rail. I spike the straight part in gauge to the straight rail.
The wing rail is then slid towards the frog until the wing is in check gauge to the diverging rail. It is spiked in place
I turn to the other wing rail, and spike it to gauge on the diverging rail.
I slide it toward the frog in check gauge to the straight rail.
Lots of folks like to poo poo the Fast Tracks jigs due to their high cost, and that's fair - they are not cheap.
Nor, as is rightly pointed out, are they strictly necessary.
However, for some of us, especially who are new to the hobby, they are worth every penny if only from an educational standpoint. I don't have someone here to teach me in person, and clinics are expensive. It is very rewarding to have a fully functional turnout the first time, and certainly aids in enthusiasm. This latter part to me is important, as hand laying track takes a lot of time.
After working with the Fast Tracks set, I feel a lot more capabile, and am going to start doing new turnouts, such as curved ones, sans jig.
My final opinion on hand laying track ? Yes please!
I have found handlaying to be a lot of fun, but it is neither economical (as in dramatically cheaper) or a quick process. For example, to complete a 3 foot section (just straight trackwork)
Naturally some folks are faster or slower than others - and doing a larger section all at once will be more time economical than a small section, but I think it's a valid example of the time expenditure. 1 hour, 45 minutes of my time well spent.
I'm not sure if handlaying is for everyone, certainly some folks want better track detailing than the process that I followed can offer. Others may not wish to expend the time and effort to handlay.
I found the process to be fun, and educational - I now have a much better understanding of rail mechanics than before, and that information maybe priceless to establishing a "bullet proof" layout in the future. I also didn't mind the time it took.
I can also be an impatient fellow at times; the handlaying process has forced me to slow down. I think this is a good thing.
Finally, it is very rewarding to look at the whole shebang, and watch trains run over it without error.
I'm personally sold on the process, and fully intend on only handlaying in the future for any permanent installations.
If you decide to not go the Jig route, It would still recommend watching the free videos from Fast Tracks, and you can even download and print out templates for free (check your gauges though!)
I'm trying to model 1956, not live in it.
So I'm not yet complete, but almost. I like it, there are some adjustments to be made, learing curves to climb, but its cheap, fun and it works. Jason
Our new MR special issue, Realistic Reliable Track, includes an article by John Pryke on mass-producing handlaid turnouts, and articles by Paul Dolkos and Tony Koester that describe ways to handlay turnouts using commercial components. I still build my own turnouts pretty much as shown in Tony's December 1989 MR article (reprinted in the Kalmbach book Trackwork and Lineside Detail). There's a photo of one of my hand-built turnouts on page 45 of the special issue.
Good luck with your turrnouts,
Andy
Andy Sperandeo MODEL RAILROADER Magazine
Back in the early 60s, before I really learned how to solder, I built a number of switches, including a right hand 3 way in place on a layout using templates hand-traced from one o the articles in MR. Didn't have a track guage, so I used an Athearn passenger car truck during early assembly, then used an Athearn 200 ton 4 truck flat without weights for fine tuning. Since none of the LHSs I had access to at the time were heavy into mrr, I spiked my rail to 3/32" X 1/8" hard balsa glued to he Tru Scale road bed. Using MEW ground throws, my impression was that they had fewer derailments than almost any other switches exept for my single Tru Scale Hi Speed turnout. For financial reasons, now that my (former) employer decided I had earned the right to become a gentleman of liesure (I'm pushing 66), I have started to clean and recondition my old code 100 snap switches and the left over frogs and points from my past DIY efforts, which I will most likely combine with newer DIY switches using C100 nickle silver rail. Probably a lot of hand laid track as well. But first, to decide on a 6' X 13' island or a 9' X 13' doughnut, then sell the idea to the chief cook and bottlewasher.
Old hats my rear! I'm 15 and I prefer to handlay turnouts. I've done nothing for a layout installation, (due to the fact that I will be moving within the next year I've put the layout on the backburner and began practicing modeling skills) but I have done a few just to see what it was like. No fancy tools, no jigs, just some fasttracks PC board ties, 0.015" rosin core solder, an Iron, and a wheelset as a track gauge.
While the result was comparatively very poor, I still loved the way it looked compared to commercial turnouts. (I ABHOR plastic frogs and gigantic flangeways!!) It looked better than a commercial turnout, but wasn't TOO detailed, which in my eye there is such a thing. Too much detail distracts the eye from the main focus, the train! But not enough is worse. There needs to be a good balance if you ask me.
Did you start from scrap or do you buy a kit?I guess one could say I started from scratch, though I did have a few supplies that are used specifically for handlaying track.
What advice or opinions do you have for handlaying turnouts? Do it, even if you aren't good at it, just keep practicing. They both work and look leaps and bounds better than commercial turnouts if done right. Were you happy with the results? Moderately. Like I said, it was poor, but it was my first one, and I was proud of it regardless. Have you done or tried something more complicated like a double slip switch?Nope. I'm not that good yet. Besides, even though I do find complex trackwork interesting, I prefer to see a large steam locomotive lumbering over a turnout in the #10-#12 range. It looks incredible!
gsetter Did you start from scrap or do you buy a kit? What advice or opinions do you have for handlaying turnouts? Were you happy with the results? Have you done or tried something more complicated like a double slip switch?
I don't use kits. Basswood strips cut to length for ties, code 100 rail ripped out of old Atlas flex salvaged from a previous layout, ME or Walthers spikes. 4 spikes per tie, looks very good!
Practice and get good with your tools. Like anything else in this hobby (or life), developing a skill takes time.
I like my results, yes.
No specialwork; don't have any need for it.
FYI--I lay the TO on the benchwork, to fit the circumstance; I don't build them elsewhere and bring them over.
Hi again,
As read in the answer, there is two factors that are important when laying handlaid track, time and adjustements.
If you don't use jig or some device to mass produce pieces of track it take a lot of time.
If you don't us a jig, adjustement are long time sessions for a few pieces of track especialy in the small scale.
So I prefer to use jig even as say, and I admit it they are quite expensive, but on the other hand you could win time when building lot of turnouts and as far I am concerned they want no or little adjustement.
So the criteria is; when building a big layout did you want to take a lot of time to lay track before you could run a train or take not to much time about track and left time for other projects; if your philosophy is the same than me I prefer use jig to win time and of course use handlay track.
Marc_MagnusIf you don't use jig or some device to mass produce pieces of track it take a lot of time.
The difference in time is measured in minutes. Regardless of how you assemble the switches, if you build them from stick rail, you have to file off the same amount of metal. Really what speeds things up is to buy a 1" belt sander and sand off the metal rather than file it off. That turns it from a 10 minute job to a 1 minute job.
You can also "mass produce" switch components by making your own jigs for sizing and cutting components.
To anyone who has read these forums for any length of time, my obsession with bulletproof trackwork and hand-laid specialwork isn't exactly news.
gsetter Did you start from scrap or do you buy a kit?
I start with raw rail, either purchased as stick rail or salvaged from damaged flex track, sheet balsa (I cut my own ties to JNR standard dimensions,) loose spikes, solder and two wire nails.
Handlaying specialwork is not difficult. Even this arthritic old coot can do it. Just be patient, work carefully (with an NMRA gauge in one hand and two three-point gauges riding the rail you're working on) and don't hesitate to scrap any part that doesn't meet specifications. In hand-laying specialwork, "Good enough," isn't, unless your, "Good enough'" is a pretty close approach to perfection.
Happy is an understatement - especially since a lot of my hand-laid specialwork isn't available off-the-shelf from any commercial source at any price.
I have built station throats with multiple double slips, three-way switches with all three routes curving left, curved turnouts built to desired radii (most metric, few 'customary' for model railroads) and will not hesitate to build whatever puzzle palace is necessary to route trains as required by my prototype's track layout and operating scheme.
All of my specialwork is built on-site, to routes laid out with flex track on card stock (which then becomes part of the permanent roadbed sandwich.) I don't worry about frog numbers. I DO work to get smooth-flowing operation through an entire interlocking plant. Granted that some prototype situations become slalom courses of multiple S curves - but not on MY railroad!
Oh, yes. Those two wire nails? Those are my point pivots, placed in suitably small holes directly under the heel (blunt end) of each point. There is no contact between the point and the closure rail. My hot frogs are powered through contacts on the switch actuator, and an open point is as (electrically) dead as the Holy Roman Empire.
The next project? Passenger staging - mostly simple turnouts (some spring switches included) with a few crossings, including one where two 650mm radius curves cross. Piece of cake!
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - on flex, with hand-laid specialwork)
Marc_MagnusIf you don't use jig or some device to mass produce pieces of track it take a lot of time. If you don't us a jig, adjustement are long time sessions for a few pieces of track especialy in the small scale.
I have not experienced either of these.
So I'd have to say they aren't necessarily true.
I scratch build my turnuts with PC board ties and the NMRA gauge. This way I can get the turnout I want.With my limited space I've built many curved turnouts. All I need is the drawing with the centerlines. Until now I've build a few hundred turnouts for my layouts, the first turnouts were spiked. But with soldering you can work much more precisely.
Wolfgang
Pueblo & Salt Lake RR
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