Pink Foam as SPLINES ??

[jwhitten]

 

Has anybody tried cutting pink foam into strips and using them as spline material? Not cookie-cutter, but gluing/laminating them together as splines? If so, what thickness foam did you use and how were the results?

[CSXDixieLine]

Hmmmmmmmmm...interesting question. Why would you want to use foam rather that a more traditional material--Masonite for example? I am interested in hearing feedback on this and to see if it has been done before. Seems like it might be sturdy enough in most instances although I could see it being brittle and breaking if any weight was applied to it accidentally. Jamie

[tomikawaTT]

Haven't done it myself, but there is a form of pink foam that might work.  It's called fan-fold underlayment and comes in a folded bundle of 25 2 x 4 foot sheets, for use under vinyl siding.  I have cut some into strips (used as separators in a shipping/storage box) and just bent one to about a 15 inch radius as a test.  When released, it sprang back to the straight position.

That's the good news.  The bad news is that, like all foam, it will not hold track nails or spikes.  Also, it's thin - 3/8" - so would require more laminations than 1/2" homasote.

For my own work, I prefer cookie-cut plywood with the fan-fold underlayment laid flat where others would use cork.  I get around the nail-holding problem by anchoring my flex track with latex caulk.

Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)

[maxman]

Haven't done it myself, but there is a form of pink foam that might work.  It's called fan-fold underlayment and comes in a folded bundle of 25 2 x 4 foot sheets, for use under vinyl siding.  I have cut some into strips (used as separators in a shipping/storage box) and just bent one to about a 15 inch radius as a test.  When released, it sprang back to the straight position.

That's the good news.  The bad news is that, like all foam, it will not hold track nails or spikes.  Also, it's thin - 3/8" - so would require more laminations than 1/2" homasote.

For my own work, I prefer cookie-cut plywood with the fan-fold underlayment laid flat where others would use cork.  I get around the nail-holding problem by anchoring my flex track with latex caulk.

Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)

Question!  Where did you find the fan-fold stuff?  Also, would it be useful as car separators in a box of train cars, or is the surface of the material rigid like normal foam?

Thanks

[NevinW]

I have seen pictures of good sized layouts on the internet where everything was built from pink foam:  Risers, roadbed, framing, it was all pink below the scenery.  Glue held everything together.  No idea how well it worked or how long it lasted, but it has clearly be done on a large scale.  Based on what I saw, cutting 1/2 inch thick foam into strips and laminating them into splines could work.  -  Nevin

[tinman1]

 I have seen the fan fold foam at most of the home improvement stores. The surface is similar or identical to the wide ridgid type foam. As for using the foam as splines, I don't know. It could be used but I would imagine the supports would have to be closer. The continous flexing would create problems, unless it was strengthened with something, or made tall. You could possibly sandwich a layer of compressed cardboard between a couple of the plies to increase the strength.

[jwhitten]

 

The reason I ask is that I'm building my layout which is going to end up utilizing a number of construction methods. I want a strong layout but also want to use foam and hard-shell as much as possible to keep weight down and improve overall construction & scenicking time. I like the idea of doing spline roadbed. I had been considering masonite cut into strips but then I was wondering today whether or not 1 or 2 inch pink foam would work as well. 

I'm not worried about track spikes since I'm using Central Valley track products (and probably Walthers or Atlas code 83 in non visible areas) and will have to glue the track down anyway. The pink foam seems to have about the right about of give to it so as to be pliable in the various directions while being stiff enough to hold its shape and provide support.

One of the possible advantages might be that its easier to rip out or add onto for future expansion or changes. Another one is that it is a little easier to work with, though that's not a huge consideration. And it will join well to other areas where I will be using flat foam such as yards and town areas.

I've seen layouts that use foam to a great extent (even almost completely) but it occurred to me this afternoon that I've never seen anybody mention using pink foam as spline roadbed and I wondered why not-- what the pros and cons would be.

[ereimer]

 ... I was wondering today whether or not 1 or 2 inch pink foam would work as well.

 

i wonder what radius you can bend 1" or 2" foam to . my guess is 1" is usable but the 2" might be too rigid . has anyone tried ?

i would imagine that 3 or 4 pieces of 1" foam about 4 to 6 inches deep and glued together like normal spline would give plenty of strength, but like all foam construction you'd have to be careful about putting any real weight on it (no leaning!)

 

ernie

[CSXDixieLine]

What glue would you use for this? I have some spare 3/4" foam pieces laying around and I may do a test but not sure what kind of glue to use. Jamie

[johncolley]

I would consider using 2" foam cut into 3/8 or at most 1/2" strips. Use the gold tube with blue label "Liquid Nails for Projects" and as with masonite keep the clamps on for 24 hours. I use large radius curves which should not be a problem bending, and, as with masonite, the curves will form their own easements! Neat idea! jc5729 John Colley, Port Townsend, WA

[cuyama]

There are a number of reasons I think this has not been done. Slicing the foam board down to uniform-thickness strips would be a challenge, probably with some waste of material. Or slicing the fanfold into strips will be a tedious process compared to ripping masonite or homasote on a table saw.

Even the liguid nails for projects will probably be subject to delamination with the sideways stresses. Construction will be slower than some other kinds of spline (waiting for the adhesive to cure) vs. the quick drying time of industrial-strength hot glue with some other materials. Bring lots of clamps!

Basically you'd be taking a material that has good structural qualities as roadbed, but is relatively expensive (the foam), cutting it into strips that have no stuctural quality, then bonding it back together less strong than than its original form.

Doesn't seem worth it to me.

[twhite]

Well, my fairly large 24'x24' Yuba River Sub is built on a 2x2" open grid using 2" extruded foam as the layout base, with grades built with a combination of extruded foam and WS foam risers (Height--from 0" to 24" at the highest level) and scenery built from a combination of foam and foam-forms with Hardshell, and it's sturdy as a rock.  And lightweight. 

But even after that, I'd be really WARY of using foam for splines--even the flexible foam that several others have mentioned.  It's a matter of strength and flexibility under weight, for me, at least.  I keep thinking about how closely I had to support the foam with the framework (12" cross-bracing instead of the usual 24") and how careful I had to feel leaning over to put in some of the trackage, and using an open spline made of foam just makes me feel a little uncomfortable.  Perhaps it can be done--I'm not saying it couldn't--but it doesn't really give me a feeling of 'sturdy' when you come right down to it. 

But then, perhaps that's just me. 

Tom

[Jake1210]

Haven't done it myself, but there is a form of pink foam that might work.  It's called fan-fold underlayment and comes in a folded bundle of 25 2 x 4 foot sheets, for use under vinyl siding.  I have cut some into strips (used as separators in a shipping/storage box) and just bent one to about a 15 inch radius as a test.  When released, it sprang back to the straight position.

That's the good news.  The bad news is that, like all foam, it will not hold track nails or spikes.  Also, it's thin - 3/8" - so would require more laminations than 1/2" homasote.

For my own work, I prefer cookie-cut plywood with the fan-fold underlayment laid flat where others would use cork.  I get around the nail-holding problem by anchoring my flex track with latex caulk.

Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)

Chuck,

I believe you mean Masonite, correct? I know people have used Homosote as a roadbed, but I have never seen it used as a spline subroadbed.

Also, I saw fan fold last time I was at the local Home Depot, for who(m) it may concern. Though I never checked the price. So would a package of 25 2x4 save money over using masonite splines

[CSXDixieLine]

Haven't done it myself, but there is a form of pink foam that might work.  It's called fan-fold underlayment and comes in a folded bundle of 25 2 x 4 foot sheets, for use under vinyl siding.  I have cut some into strips (used as separators in a shipping/storage box) and just bent one to about a 15 inch radius as a test.  When released, it sprang back to the straight position.

That's the good news.  The bad news is that, like all foam, it will not hold track nails or spikes.  Also, it's thin - 3/8" - so would require more laminations than 1/2" homasote.

For my own work, I prefer cookie-cut plywood with the fan-fold underlayment laid flat where others would use cork.  I get around the nail-holding problem by anchoring my flex track with latex caulk.

Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)

Chuck,

I believe you mean Masonite, correct? I know people have used Homosote as a roadbed, but I have never seen it used as a spline subroadbed.

Also, I saw fan fold last time I was at the local Home Depot, for who(m) it may concern. Though I never checked the price. So would a package of 25 2x4 save money over using masonite splines

Actually I have seen construction articles suggesting Homasote as spline material. Not sure how commonly it is used. Jamie

[tomikawaTT]

Haven't done it myself, but there is a form of pink foam that might work.  It's called fan-fold underlayment and comes in a folded bundle of 25 2 x 4 foot sheets, for use under vinyl siding.  I have cut some into strips (used as separators in a shipping/storage box) and just bent one to about a 15 inch radius as a test.  When released, it sprang back to the straight position.

That's the good news.  The bad news is that, like all foam, it will not hold track nails or spikes.  Also, it's thin - 3/8" - so would require more laminations than 1/2" homasote.

For my own work, I prefer cookie-cut plywood with the fan-fold underlayment laid flat where others would use cork.  I get around the nail-holding problem by anchoring my flex track with latex caulk.

Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)

Chuck,

I believe you mean Masonite, correct? I know people have used Homosote as a roadbed, but I have never seen it used as a spline subroadbed.

Also, I saw fan fold last time I was at the local Home Depot, for who(m) it may concern. Though I never checked the price. So would a package of 25 2x4 save money over using masonite splines

No, I mean Homasote - which was the material recommended for splines when the concept first surfaced in Model Railroader in the late '50s.  I built a homasote spline layout in 1960.  For more reasons than I care to get into, I haven't used spline construction since.  (Which doesn't mean I think others should avoid splines.  One size does not fit all.)

As far as cutting fan-fold underlayment - it takes longer to measure.  Slap a steel straightedge against it, one pass with a sharp utility knife and snap the uncut part.  No crumbs of pink plastic, no mess, no problem.

I also believe some of us are vastly underestimating the strength of foam.  Granted that a 100+kg man would crush it - but my heaviest motive power is in the 1kg weight range, and most of my rolling stock masses milligrams, not kilograms.  If supported on 16-18 inch centers, 2 inch depth should be adequate for laminated foam splines.

So why don't I use them?  In more than a few places I don't have a full one inch between the railheads in the netherworld and the subgrade of the next track up - and my layout has more stacked track levels than a wedding cake.

Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - on fan-fold underlayment laid flat)

[grayfox1119]

JW: I use pink and blue foam quite a bit, but not as a spline. I use Woodland Scenic's foam products for risers, curves etc., and they have worked well on my wife's Dept 56 Christmas Village display ( a train runs on the display of course ). Are you asking about using foam for splines because you have a supply of foam that you want to use? Otherwise, go to Woodland Scenic web site and check out their foam products for railbeds.

[luvadj]

I'm slicing up the rest of a 4 X 8 sheet for risers and inclines on my new 3 X 5 patio layout....so far, so good.

 

[dgwinup]

I did an experiment a few years ago.  Using a hot wire cutter, I sliced 1" blue foam into strips about 1/4" wide, then glued them together like splines. I used yellow glue.  The experiment worked...sort of.  The 1" foam didn't seem to have much structural strength.  2" foam would probably work better.  The 1" foam formed very nice curves and was no more difficult to work with than regular spline material.  Clamping was problematic; too much pressure deformed the foam, not enough pressure and the foam wouldn't hold together well.  I probably wouldn't do a layout with foam splines, but I think there are probably areas where it would work if someone wanted to go to that effort.

My own layout is made entirely of foam.  It's a 7' x 4' el, 30" wide.  Most of the foam is 2", some of it was built up with laminated 1" foam because I couldn't get 2" at the time.  Grades were made by elevating a layer of foam.  It made for a much smoother transition.  Some grade were made by simply carving them into the foam base.  On my next layout, I will continue to use foam extensively.

Darrell, quiet...for now