Okay. Its finally annoyed me to the point of doing something about it. I love the ME flex because it holds its shape. However, the ends of each piece DO NOT. my curves on my layout look horrible (thankfully nothing is permanently installed... just layed down to test out track arrangements) because at each joint between 2 pieces of flex, theres a straight-ish section. I've been told that cutting the track where it actually holds the curve will do the trick... but that seems illogical, because it just shortens the piece and will give you the same problem.
Should I just solder them together, first, and THEN form the entire curve?
DeadheadGreg wrote: Okay. Its finally annoyed me to the point of doing something about it. I love the ME flex because it holds its shape. However, the ends of each piece DO NOT. my curves on my layout look horrible (thankfully nothing is permanently installed... just layed down to test out track arrangements) because at each joint between 2 pieces of flex, theres a straight-ish section. I've been told that cutting the track where it actually holds the curve will do the trick... but that seems illogical, because it just shortens the piece and will give you the same problem.Should I just solder them together, first, and THEN form the entire curve?
The simple answer is yes!
Some folks also offset the joiners a few ties, which will help the transition even more.
Rotor
Jake: How often does the train go by? Elwood: So often you won't even notice ...
There are two ways. The first is to lay both sections of track perfectly aligned and flat on a table and solder them using joiners. Do a thorough job so that the joint is strong. Then, conform to the curve as you lay the track along your pre-drawn centreline. As stated, you can slip the sliding rail about five or six ties deep into the next piece to help strengthen the joining of the two pieces...the ties do a good job of holding the rails in position all by themselves that way.
Actually, there's a third way, but its tricky...you can actually bend the metal slightly on each end if you know how to do it. Both rails have to be curved fairly tightly around something so that when they are left by themselves they still have a permanent and slight bend. That helps a great deal because, as you have found, the ends like to stay straight.
Okay, the second way I was going to mention was placing sturdy pins or track spikes at a measured distance to the outside of your centreline. You'd need 10 or more nails driven well into the subroadbed, or roadbed if it is strong enough, spaced along the curve. Near the joins you'd need a couple extra nails for more strength because those rail ends won't want to bend there. Joining the two sections normally, you press them tight agains the nails with the nails resting against the rails, not the ties. So you have to get the right distance to follow your centreline properly when you drive in the nails. On the inside of the curve, you'll have to drive a few nails to help get the ends to curve from the inside direction. You can ballast over the nails, or spike in the holes in the ties once everything is in place, or ballast and then remove all the spikes by twisting them and pulling upwards once the ballast is dry and will not let the tracks spring outward.
With this last method, but really it is a good idea any time you are laying curves, check frequently with a track gauge to make sure you are not compromising the gauge between the rails when you are bending them.
Ribbonrail makes track alignment gauges that fit between the tracks, I find that helps when getting two curved sections of flex track to line up.
Ribbonrail track alignment gauges
Someone also makes a track cutting tool - I can't remember the exact name so couldn't find it on the Walthers site, but it fits over both rails and allows you to cut a perfectly square cut on both rails at the same time with a hobby saw.
I have used some Shinohara Code 83 flex track on my layout which (like ME track) holds its shape when curved. One gadget that I found very valuable when laying this kind of flex track is a special track clamp made by a company called Krause in Germany. You can see a photo of how its used here:
This nifty gadget holds the track tightly in place so you get smooth flowing curves. Unfortunately, I don't know if its available in the US. I borrowed thisgadget from a friend who ordered it directly from Germany. Maybe I ought to suggest this product to Micro Mark :-)
Slowly building a layout since 2007!
DeadheadGreg wrote: Should I just solder them together, first, and THEN form the entire curve?
Yes. Solder them. If you're concerned about expansion/contraction with a 6' long section of track, you can cut expansion joints after the track is secured and ballasted.
Note that with ME track, there is no need to remove the end ties to join two sections of uncut track. The first tie is not physically connected to the track with spikes. Simply slide the ties back from the joint, slide the rail joiner on (solder as necessary) and then slide the tie back over the rail joiner. It looks great. Every bit as good as Peco turnouts which have a depression in the first tie to allow room for rail joiners.
I use ME code 70 rail joiners with code 83 track. They are very low profile and disappear when painted. But, they are very difficult to slide on. You really have to prep the rail ends by filing the bottom and knocking the sharp edges off.
How do you create consistent curves with ME flex?
Practice, practice, practice and a lot of perseverance thrown in for good measure....work slowly down the length of the flex track, making small adjustments as you go. When you reach the end of the piece you're working on, start again with the next round of small adjustments. Get your eye down to the railhead and sight along the length of the curve, rotating your point of view to ensure the curve is constant, smooth and has no kinks. This photo is from my layout (the first I have ever built) and I was extremely pleased with the results of my labor. I did solder 2 pieces together before bending them to the curve. There have been times when I had to join 2 pieces of flex in a curve; again, careful work and preparation will result in a smooth joint. I have used pins on the outside of the track to force the end back into alignment with the centerline, joined and soldered the new section and then worked down the length of the curve checking for a smooth continuous curve. After the track is shaped how I want it, I run my index finger down the center of the track to move the ties back into the proper spacing so they are spaced uniformly through the curve.
Don Z.
Research; it's not just for geeks.
When I have used this type of flextrack, I start laying the curve with the first piece, but start it back in the straight area and do not solder that joint. Then if I see that I need more track for the curve, I will solder them together before the end of the first piece is mounted to the roadbed. Once the joints are soldered, I continue laying the curve. I also extend the end of the last piece into the straight area and don't solder that joint. I try and leave a little "extra" gap length at the joiners that are on both ends of the curved flex track in the straight areas. By doing that, I have found that I don't need to cut gaps for expansion in the center of the curve.
Hope this helps.
Elmer.
The above is my opinion, from an active and experienced Model Railroader in N scale and HO since 1961.
(Modeling Freelance, Eastern US, HO scale, in 1962, with NCE DCC for locomotive control and a stand alone LocoNet for block detection and signals.) http://waynes-trains.com/ at home, and N scale at the Club.
selector wrote: There are two ways. The first is to lay both sections of track perfectly aligned and flat on a table and solder them using joiners. Do a thorough job so that the joint is strong. Then, conform to the curve as you lay the track along your pre-drawn centreline. As stated, you can slip the sliding rail about five or six ties deep into the next piece to help strengthen the joining of the two pieces...the ties do a good job of holding the rails in position all by themselves that way.Actually, there's a third way, but its tricky...you can actually bend the metal slightly on each end if you know how to do it. Both rails have to be curved fairly tightly around something so that when they are left by themselves they still have a permanent and slight bend. That helps a great deal because, as you have found, the ends like to stay straight.
Thank you. Thats the kind of answer I was looking for. I think I'm going to go with your first method. The rails will slide though... do you think that there will be any issue with the ME rail joiner being pushed up through the ties?
AlreadyInUse wrote:I use ME code 70 rail joiners with code 83 track. They are very low profile and disappear when painted. But, they are very difficult to slide on. You really have to prep the rail ends by filing the bottom and knocking the sharp edges off.
Yeah, I'm using their rail joiners, too. I know the drill, haha.
Greg, this is one instance where it would be best to solder anyway. If you can test fit the joiner first, ensuring it slides on easily, before you slide the rail ends inwards five or six ties, then it may suffice. Try it. But if you are a sweaty and swearing mess after five minutes trying to slip the joiner on when the rail ends are inwards from the end ties, I would say forget the joiner altogether and use heat sinks on either side of the joint, but do solder them quickly for a good firm hold. That should help the curve, but not if the rail ends are still straight, or want to be...if you follow me. It would be best to do the pre-bending bit, you only need a bit to help, slide the rails together inwards of the end of the ties on one piece of flex, and then solder with heat sinks so that you don't ruin the first retaining spike heads on the adjacent ties.
This might be one of those times when you bite it and really do some practicing first. It would be great to have it all figured out and familiar so that your very first real join goes well and looks good. Having to re-cut sections of flex, prep the rail ends, yada yada, when your spike heads keep letting go will quickly get really old.
wjstix wrote: Ribbonrail makes track alignment gauges that fit between the tracks, I find that helps when getting two curved sections of flex track to line up.Ribbonrail track alignment gaugesSomeone also makes a track cutting tool - I can't remember the exact name so couldn't find it on the Walthers site, but it fits over both rails and allows you to cut a perfectly square cut on both rails at the same time with a hobby saw.
This is the method that works for me. I would shy away from "bending" the ends of the flex track until you have given this method a try. Actually I also find the Ribbonrail alignment tools useful on tangents too because stiffer types of flex track also tend to hold slight curves or kinks.
I solder the railjoiners to two pieces to treat them as a curved unit. Then I run the Ribbonrail alignment tool through the curve over and over again. When I lay the track into the adhesive caulk, I spike or nail the ends to hold the curve of the alignment tool. Once the caulk sets it is usually possible to remove the nails or spikes but sometimes just for stabilty's sake I leave some in.
Dave Nelson
wjstix wrote:Ribbonrail makes track alignment gauges that fit between the tracks, I find that helps when getting two curved sections of flex track to line up.Ribbonrail track alignment gaugesSomeone also makes a track cutting tool - I can't remember the exact name so couldn't find it on the Walthers site, but it fits over both rails and allows you to cut a perfectly square cut on both rails at the same time with a hobby saw.
I believe that would be the track tool MLR makes.
selector wrote: Greg, this is one instance where it would be best to solder anyway. If you can test fit the joiner first, ensuring it slides on easily, before you slide the rail ends inwards five or six ties, then it may suffice. Try it. But if you are a sweaty and swearing mess after five minutes trying to slip the joiner on when the rail ends are inwards from the end ties, I would say forget the joiner altogether and use heat sinks on either side of the joint, but do solder them quickly for a good firm hold. That should help the curve, but not if the rail ends are still straight, or want to be...if you follow me. It would be best to do the pre-bending bit, you only need a bit to help, slide the rails together inwards of the end of the ties on one piece of flex, and then solder with heat sinks so that you don't ruin the first retaining spike heads on the adjacent ties.
I don't think you can slide the rail on ME flex..... I think I see what you're saying, though: make sure the rail joiner fits BEFORE you curve the flex, and then put it on once the rail has slid in, and then slide the rail from the next piece of flex up through the ties and into the rail joiner?
this seems like a really good idea. I'd heard that ME flex wouldn't kink or anything if joints were even... and they dont kink... you just can't get the end of the flex to hold a curve! lol
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Don Z wrote:How do you create consistent curves with ME flex?Practice, practice, practice and a lot of perseverance thrown in for good measure....work slowly down the length of the flex track, making small adjustments as you go. When you reach the end of the piece you're working on, start again with the next round of small adjustments. Get your eye down to the railhead and sight along the length of the curve, rotating your point of view to ensure the curve is constant, smooth and has no kinks. This photo is from my layout (the first I have ever built) and I was extremely pleased with the results of my labor. I did solder 2 pieces together before bending them to the curve. There have been times when I had to join 2 pieces of flex in a curve; again, careful work and preparation will result in a smooth joint. I have used pins on the outside of the track to force the end back into alignment with the centerline, joined and soldered the new section and then worked down the length of the curve checking for a smooth continuous curve. After the track is shaped how I want it, I run my index finger down the center of the track to move the ties back into the proper spacing so they are spaced uniformly through the curve.Don Z.
I have laid a couple of hundred feet of of ME on my layout.
Don has it right.
To add to Don's comments, the ties are the key. As you bend, keep straightening them and moving them to the correct spacing, this helps keep the track from kinking and it evens out the curvature. If I am joining two lengths of the rail together in a curve I will bend both sections as close as I can get them, trim up the ends and then solder. I then go back and smooth out the curve. I have a plywood quarter circle with all of the centerline radii that I use drawn on it. When I start bending my flex, I use the template to check my progress as I bend.
Ribbon rail guides will work only after the track is close to the desired curve, the track is too stiff to start at one end and try and bend to desired curvature in one pass.
ME rail doesn't slide (easily) on the ties and the weathered is stiffer than the un-weathered.
The secret to bending ME flex? ...How do you get to Carnegie hall (buy a ticket)?
Guy
see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site