Ok folks, I'm gonna ramble something off here and I hope you can follow me. Here is my orignal plan, but I didn't like the way the incline was working so I decided to change it from this....where the incline at the top of the image is climbing up the backside of the layout to the mining operations at the top.
I've decided to change it and come across the layout with a bridge/trestle setup to give the layout some dimmension(it was flatsville before). Like this......or close proximity.
My questions are these:
How should I build this? I know I'm going to need the Atlas 18" bridge to span my small yard, but what about the open area? I don't want to use the old incline trestle pieces that just slip on to the track. Although I have thought about using them and support the different levels of each with different sized wooden or foam insul blocks underneath. Kind of in a reverse of how they're supposed to be used. Another thought was to use the Atlas Bridge piers, the ones that are like 3" high and look like stone, come 4 to a pack? Then just blocking under them to raise my incline from 3"-5" to meet my mine plateu.
My other issue is what to put under the track? I don't want to just let open track and open ties hang in the breeze from pier to pier know what I mean? So I was thinking for wooden roadbed, or finding enough old bridge decks to go from pier to pier. What are your thoughts on this?
Really in a bind here. I want to do something unique and I know it's "my" layout and I can do it however I wanted. But I don't want it to look like poo either.
So let's pick those brains and not your noses and throw me some idea's. This is not a post asking to revamp my layout. It's already way too late to start over, believe me, I've been there for a while. I just need some advice on how to make this span across my layout look AND work as well as possible. This is HO code 100, no steam just 4 axle diesel, on about a 3 to 3.5% grade.
Thanks gang.
Ok, I think I got your plan. More or less, you turn table is above with the mine. COme out of the area, down the grade to the lower level with the yars and trackage....
Take a look at Woodland Scenics Riser/Grade kits. They sell them in 3 and 4 Percent grades. Use the kits, work in the scenery, retaining wall, etc and liberal useage of bridges. Going to be tricky, some imagaintion but I think that might be yout ticket. Skip the trestles and peirs.
Make sure to do the math though to make sure you have enough length to come down/up with haveing to finght some nasty grades.
Best Regards, Big John
Kiva Valley Railway- Freelanced road in central Arizona. Visit the link to see my MR forum thread on The Building of the Whitton Branch on the Kiva Valley Railway
127 views and one post?
Did I say something wrong? Or did I not say enough?
Sheesh!!!!!!
I think it is one of those (shrug) then-go-ahead-and-do-it kinda things for most people who have viewed here. The idea doesn't move them, they don't see how it will work or look realistic, and they have left your thread and moved onto other topics. Either that or they just don't understand where you're coming from. At the same time, you have resolved that you're not going to consider a substantial redo of your basic plan, so they feel you should have at it...I guess. Don't know what else to make of all those stay-away views.
If you really like the feel of this plan, and are quite excited about it, then you might want to think about a viaduct of retained earth filled in between stonework walls or something like that...or an open frame viaduct of steel. Or a wood or steel trestle. Either way, it should be easy enough to do once you determine how to make and situate abutments that give you clearances away from passing items at the base and overtop. Once you have them roughed in, measure and figure out where pylons/bents/arches, etc. will need to be to look engineered and in keeping with your period.
Can you be more specific about what you'd like from us?
Why would you put the roundhouse so far from the yard near the mine? That's like taking your refrigerator out of your kitchen and putting it in a shed in the back corner of your yard. Not real handy.
The quick and dirty way would be to buy the Woodland Scenics foam risers to build the grade and use bridges to cover the areas over the lower tracks or roads. Then use hard shell or foam to build up embankments along the grade.
Dave H.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
selector wrote: I think it is one of those (shrug) then-go-ahead-and-do-it kinda things for most people who have viewed here. The idea doesn't move them, they don't see how it will work or look realistic, and they have left your thread and moved onto other topics. Either that or they just don't understand where you're coming from. At the same time, you have resolved that you're not going to consider a substantial redo of your basic plan, so they feel you should have at it...I guess. Don't know what else to make of all those stay-away views. If you really like the feel of this plan, and are quite excited about it, then you might want to think about a viaduct of retained earth filled in between stonework walls or something like that...or an open frame viaduct of steel. Or a wood or steel trestle. Either way, it should be easy enough to do once you determine how to make and situate abutments that give you clearances away from passing items at the base and overtop. Once you have them roughed in, measure and figure out where pylons/bents/arches, etc. will need to be to look engineered and in keeping with your period.Can you be more specific about what you'd like from us?
Selector,
Thanks for the insight, I was beginning to feel like an black sheep or something. LOL I've been reading this boards for a little over a year and you always have pretty good insight as to what's going on around here and your modelling is some of my favorite.
I think the problem here is that I myself cannot envision what it is I'm trying to do exactly. That's a pretty big flaw when you're doing anything that requires some imagination. I think I'll take a step back and rethink what I'm doing. Then, possibly, it'll give me a clearer picture of how I want to build this span. Now I'm thinking about viaducts, earth buildup, WS Inclines and bridges which is really going to be a combination of several things I think. I really didn't want to use those crappy trestle pieces anyhow.
Thanks again, if I get into this and have some probs can I give you a shout?
dehusman wrote: Why would you put the roundhouse so far from the yard near the mine? That's like taking your refrigerator out of your kitchen and putting it in a shed in the back corner of your yard. Not real handy.The quick and dirty way would be to buy the Woodland Scenics foam risers to build the grade and use bridges to cover the areas over the lower tracks or roads. Then use hard shell or foam to build up embankments along the grade.Dave H.
Hi Dave,
The round house was an impulse item. I really wanted one on the layout and I know it's a bit odd to put it up on the mountain like that, but I figured what the heck huh? But even before you said about it I was considering taking it out of there and using that entire plateu as a coalmine operation. I can always put a few storage or staging tracks for my hoppers and a small loco shop for the mountain switchers.
Thanks for the advice on the incline and stuff. I like you're idea. Like I mentioned to Selector, I think I need to take a step back and really analyze how I want to build this. I'll post more when I come up with a better plan.
AltoonaRailroader wrote:I've decided to change it and come across the layout with a bridge/trestle setup to give the layout some dimmension
I've decided to change it and come across the layout with a bridge/trestle setup to give the layout some dimmension
The incline leading to the overpass is a first-class candidate for the cookie-cutter construction technique.
1st => You "cookie-cutter" the roadbed for the incline to the overpass which will take care of of the grade "all by itself."
2nd => Position the roadbed all the way past the overpass section with adequate underneath riser/cleat supports along its entire length.
3rd => Only after the all of the cookie-cutter roadbed is secure, do you cut out the section for the overpass, right up to each side, where you have already placed the trestle overpass riser/cleat end supports.
Cookie-cutter will provide a foundation that is rock-solid without messing around with more flimsy foam risers and their associated cost.
In my case for the N Scale, Conemaugh Road & Traction, the cookie-cutter technique will be employed for the community of Conemaugh layout portion, which is adopted from The Chippewa Central published in Model Railroader, with a similar overpass to your trackplan.
Note #1: You currently have a turnout "s-curve" at the beginning of your incline coming out of the staging yard throat.
By moving the turnout at the beginning of the incline further to the right, say 3-4 straight track sections, you will gain two things: No more "s-curve" plus a longer incline run that decreases the steepness of the grade. When you come out of the yard staging, you will simply run around the layout one time to the beginning of the incline.
Note #2: You could also place a 6"x6" or a 12"x12" 45 degree triangle at the inside corner where the two "L-sections" of the layout meet.
By doing this, you can move the turnout all the way to the "right L-section" and begin your incline grade there, and; you then run that incline beginning over the new 45 degree triangle addition. You will also stretch out your cookie-cutter incline, and decrease the amount of the grade even more to the trestle overpass.
You would also eliminate the sharp "s-curve" coming out of the tunnel, and; the turnout to the incline can begin right after the train comes out of the tunnel.
The curve(s) over the 45 degree triangle could be gentle and the trackage would not need to be exactly parallel to the table edge., and; you could also angle the upper portion a little more into the lower right layout corner without that real sharp curve on the upper level after the overpass, again not exactly parallel to the table edge. This will add quite a bit to the scenic possibilities.
This latter design note that would employ flex track "may not be compatible" with a software program that usually prefers crisp curves attached to straight sections.
Conemaugh Road & Traction circa 1956
Tgindy,
Now that's some food for thought. I"m going to get some pictures to post here of what I have currently. Hopefully that will give everyone a better picture of what i'm doing. I've already started the incline from the bottom and I really don't want to tear it out. I also see what your saying about moving that switch back to better ease into the grade, why didn't I think of that. I think I was more stuck on the idea of going directly from staging right up the incline without making a run-a-round and then up.
Thanks for the advise and tips.
Maybe this will give you a little inspiration for bridge work and supports.
The supports under the red deck girder at the left side are from a Lionel set that was supposed to have the track laid directly on them like the Atlas ones you were talking about.
One of the best things that you can do is do some research on bridges, and maybe get a good reference book. That is something that you will use over and over when designing and building future layouts.
Elmer.
The above is my opinion, from an active and experienced Model Railroader in N scale and HO since 1961.
(Modeling Freelance, Eastern US, HO scale, in 1962, with NCE DCC for locomotive control and a stand alone LocoNet for block detection and signals.) http://waynes-trains.com/ at home, and N scale at the Club.