Other people's opinions may differ and probably do,but I'll let you know about my own experience.In my opinion,you have reached the toughest part of your layout creation,planning wise I mean,construction being your next challenge.You have spent some time negotiating with the master of the premisces (as I did) and have had a choice to make as to wich room (I didn't have that choice) to use.Then you have decided wich one will suit you best and now are confronted with your hardest decision...deciding what the layout will be.Since there are two of you,goals and ideas may differ a lot so you'll have to negotiate again,between you this time,as to what both of you would like the layout to be.
What features do you wish to have?Point to point operations?A switching layout?Continuous running?A single or more mailines?Some of all?You have an interesting space available but still be ready to compromise as trade-offs are an integral part of layout planning.
What will you be running?Passenger trains,heavy freight,small diesels or considerably bigger steamers?This choice will dictate grades,minimum curve radiuses,siding lengths,etc.Do you both like the same types of trains?Are you willing to remove most unused rolling stock from the layout all the time?If not,you'll need some storage track space and that adds up pretty quick.
What do you want your scenery to be?City,suburb,farmland,mining or heavy industry?Again a choice to make.Do you want a basically flat landscape or you like mountains,rivers.etc?There are so much interesting features available that a fairly large area can be filled in no time.
A nice layout,even a moderately sized one is time consuming and costs may soar quite fast and before you realize it,you have invested a lot of both in it so good planning becomes a paramount as you don't want a layout that you'll want to tear apart after a while.My suggestion is to build your benchwork when the height is settled and then run trains on temporary installed trackwork.This way you'll get the "feel" of operations,what you like and don't,and in the meanwhile keep searching for a trackplan that will please you.You will probably end up using someone else's published trackplan that you will modify to your own available space and desired goals.But...most important....take your time.And this is tough...having the space and being anxious to use it...this I know.I have torn down a layout once and am now investing time on my plan,and hopefully,will start building this coming winter.
I don't want to turn you away from building a layout...by no mean...but rather be thrilled to know you have a great one.
nik_n_dad wrote:MUST HAVE: - continuous running- curves\grades need to handle up to big boys, super chief sets, bullet trains- sidings\passings- some staging area (we thought about doing a helix to storage below, but just don't have the room)- tunnels- bridges- a town of some sort- outdoor and building lighting including animated signs from Miller engineering- likes the idea of the train running behind or in\out of things, but having it disappear for the return isn't an optionLIKE TO HAVE:- Trestle- trains running on multiple heights- turntable \ small roundhouse- water- river or lake- mountain- two towns- an industry in each town- operating signalsDON'T NEED OR WANT- double tracking would be nice but not required. Passing tracks are sufficient- prefer to avoid reversing loops
John Armstrong pioneered these track planning rationale phrases...
[1] Givens - What you have to work with (ceiling height, room size, train scale, etc.).
[2] Druthers - What adjustments you are left with to actually do things.
For example: N Scale is a Given. Is DCC a Given, or is DC a Druther? Is a single-track mainline a Given, or would it be a Druther because you cannot fit in a double-track mainline?
Each and every Given & Druther may involve a "Force-Field Analysis" with a "Pro-Con" decision. Put a line down the middle of the paper with Pro on the right and Con on the left for each layout function desired to help you get to a Given or a Druther status. What do you need to do to move the Con side to the Pro side?
Givens & Druthers help move things from planning to implenentation, and; comes after must, like, and don't. Nailing down the basic track plan is a great step towards your Draft Givens & Druthers so you can make adjustments for your Final Givens & Druthers.
Conemaugh Road & Traction circa 1956
Both are great plans. Neither seems suitable to your given of "big steam".
It sounds like you already have a layout? If not.. I highly recommend building a smaller one to get your feet wet and learn what aspects of the hobby most appeal.
Chris
As I see it, you are in a tough spot. Nik likes trains but it is not your thing. But since he can't build it yet, it is up to you.
That is part of, or even the main problem as I see it that you are facing. These forums are great, but they are for people who WANT to be model railroaders. To get through this, I recommend the following:
- Get some track planning books. As many as you can. Look through MR's site and make a list. Check for other track planning books that are out of print and their availability at Amazon.com. Do a search on Track Plan.
- Look for switching module track plans and track plans that you can take pieces out of. Preferably towns that strike Nik's fancy.
- Make copies of these track plans, all in the same scale and cut them out. Most published plans are drawn 3/4 inch to the foot.
- Make a scale drawing of you bench or table space.
- Lay these "Towns" and switching modules plans out on you bench space drawing. Move them around until you get a feel for something that you and Nik like. These module plans don't have to be right next to or connected directly to each other, but can be two, three, or four feet apart.
- Connect the main running track (mainline) together between modules. Of course you want a loop at each end for continuous running (I saw your bench space drawing in another thread), so that will have to be drawn in unless you find part of a plan you like that already has a loop in it.
As for building the track plan, I would use a brand of track that has the roadbed attached to it. It costs a little more, but you won't have to ballast the track or put down roadbed. And you may not have to make a lot of exotic cuts. If you go this way, it might pay you to get one piece of every type of piece that is made for the brand that you select. That way, if you need to select a piece, you will have a sample of it to see if it fits where you need it. If you don't want to go with that type of track, go with flex track. It is easier to make things fit where you need them to go.
Hope this helps.
PS. When I am desigining a new layout, I set my benchwork size, then determine what I want for a mainline, then I go look for module plans that I like and see if I can make them fit in the space I have by making drawings and copies as explained above. Most of the time I have to modify some of the module plans, but I get a lot of ideas this way.
Elmer.
The above is my opinion, from an active and experienced Model Railroader in N scale and HO since 1961.
(Modeling Freelance, Eastern US, HO scale, in 1962, with NCE DCC for locomotive control and a stand alone LocoNet for block detection and signals.) http://waynes-trains.com/ at home, and N scale at the Club.
I am going to suggest a different tack, based on your and your son's relative interest levels and capabilities. One of the dangers in this sort of situation is that by the time you've built the thing for the nine-year-old, he's twelve and might not be interested anymore. No offense to anyone, it just happens with kids. Then you'd be stuck with something you are not very interested in.[On the other hand, it could turn out that both you and your son enjoy the process and become fascinated with trains for the next couple of decades -- could happen, but I'm not sure I would count on it.]So in my humble opinion, you might be better off with the following plan:Go with the Sievers benchwork if you like, in a modest configuration that allows you a U shape or L shape with space for turnback curves (blobs) of at least 13" radius.Cover with plywoodUse Kato UNITRAK (or similar) to build a basic dogbone with a small yard and a few industry spurs. With this basic infrastructure in place, you can start adding elements as interest, time, and budget allow. This will give both you and your son a chance to try more purposeful railroading while exploring what you like or don't like. Build on or rearrange as the mood strikes (that's the benefit of the roadbed track).A key benefit is that you get up to speed fast -- the MTTF (Mean Time To Fun) is vastly reduced and not dependent on carpentry, tracklaying, extensive wiring, etc. (skills you say you will need to develop)Yes, the roadbed track is more expensive and somewhat limiting for a very involved layout. But if your nine-year-old is like a lot of kids I have known, the ability to build on and change will be a big benefit. Build some structure kits on wooden bases and move them around on this layout and they'll work on a next layout as well. And you can always reuse the UNITRAK as the staging yard of a follow-on layout.I'm not sure which Naugatuck you are considering, there seem to be multiple layouts with the same name. But I can tell you there are some concerns with the Housatonic. In order to cut everything from one sheet of plywood, the end loops are a bit more stunted than they need to be. Staging is unnecessarily short, and there are a few inexplicable spurs (like the one at one of the stations that's too short for even an engine by itself). While I applaud MR's attempt to get beyond the unsullied sacred sheet 4X8, it's puzzling to limit these layouts to what can be cut from a single 4X8. Simply adding a 2X4 pre-cut plywood "handy panel" or two to the 4X8 would have improved those designs, IMHO.
ByronModel RR Blog
Layout Design GalleryLayout Design Special Interest Group
I think the biggest challenge you have in that space is accomodating the big steam engines and bullet trains. I think you would want to consider an "around the walls" design (with a duck under to get inside) to accomodate broad curves for your mainline. Figure 2' wide benchwork would leave you a generous 5x5 center area.
You could even set it up with one wall having hidden staging that the mainline enters and leaves so trains can appear to enter your layout.. traverse it.. and exit.. the front of that could be a backdrop with a small industrial area in front of that. Perhaps the terminus of a branch line that parallels the mainline with local industries to switch for a portion of the layout.
The only problem would be accomodating a duck under with a layout at a height a kid can enjoy.. perhaps a swing bridge or lift out would be better.
Hi, Nic and dad. With a basement layout of 30'x42' I also wondered how to get ALOT of trees cheap since I model NW Wisconsin. I don't know how to make the link clickable,but if you type " Fast,cheap and easy trees" into the search thing at the bottom of this page ,it'll bring you to a tutorial I posted earlier this year on how I make cheap trees. They aren't Scenic Express, but they don't cost an arm and a leg ,either.
Enjoy your time with the son, it really is priceless. My son and I have added the grandson
to the mix!
Terry
Terry in NW Wisconsin
Queenbogey715 is my Youtube channel
nik_n_dad wrote:"...These forums are great, but they are for people who WANT to be model railroaders..."Now that's helpful!
Sorry. I didn't mean that in a derogatory way toward you. (If that what you were thinking.) I was trying to say that a lot of the techniques that you are going to get here as answers are to help modelers improve their skills and techniques. If you are not interested in model railroading, they may not mean much to you. (You said in a post somewhere that model railroading was not your hobby, I think.) As I see it, you are on a MODELING forum but living in a TOY TRAIN world right now. There is nothing wrong with that, but most of the answers are going to reflect modeling views.
I think I would steer Nik away from the extra-long (extra-expensive) trains like California Zephyr and towards shorter stuff. The beauty of N scale is that you can build much more scenery to overshadow the trains; long trains interfere with that unless you can take over the basement.
Try this (or call me a nutcase and don't try): prop up a 4x8 on a modest tilt with the back long side higher than the front. Build whatever sounds interesting switching-wise in front. The back side - which can be set along the wall - is flat and straight; a speedway. Nik can charge across the countryside in the back and slow down - he'll have to; he's coming downhill - to arrive in town.
A few buildings in the middle of the table will act as viewblocks for the back tracks, if you build the table near his shoulder height.