I have available a space in the shape of an 'L'.
18' down the back, 8' across the top and 10' x 4' at the 'bottom' of the L
I would like to put in a single level layout that maximizes the mainline run for the space available. Flyovers are ok.
Any ideas/ tricks for doing that & any layouts that I should have a look at online?
Thank you
Tanked
Scale?
Minimum aisle width?
Minimum scene depth?
Is the L 18 ft high x 28 ft wide with the vertical leg 8 ft wide and the horizontal leg 4 ft wide, or is the room 18 ft high by 12 ft wide with the vertical leg 8 ft wide and the horizontal leg 10 ft wide?
Add 1/2 the aisle width and the benchwork width That gives you a rough number for square ft of floor space for per running foot of main. Divide the square footage of the room by that number. The result is about you upper bound on a 1 lap length.
So if you want 1 ft wide benchwork and 2 ft aisles, your sq ft/ft number is 2. You have 184 sq ft of floor. 184/2 = 92. The upper bound of you main line run will be about 90 ft. If you want 2 ft scenes and 3 ft aisles, you sq ft/ft number is 3.5 and you will manage no more than about 50 ft of main line.
For every "lap" you put on the layout, you about double the footage. How close you come to that depends on you scale/minimum radius choices. You won't get much more, but you can get significantly less.
Dave H.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
http://www.atlasrr.com/Code100web/index.htm
Atlas has a couple of "L" shaped layouts on their site. Maybe you can get some ideas from these.
I think you've pretty much have room for a big loop around the walls. 8 feet gives you room for a two foot shelf on each wall, a comfortable 4 foot wide aisle down the middle, and generous curve radii at each end. Anything more and you're really cramming. You wouldn't be happy.
That configuration with one level and only one track per scene gives you about a 40 foot mainline. Now you do have a few options to extend the run.
First, that wider area at the bottom of your L is room for a helix to get to a second deck. Helix add a lot of mainline. If you had a 5 foot diameter helix, each turn gives you 15 feet of mainline. Assuming 18 inch deck spacing and 4 inches climb per turn, you'll have 4.5 turns or about 67 feet of mainline in the helix. Add that to the two deck's 40 feet each and you're at about 147 feet of mainline. The drawback is almost half is hidden in a helix.
Second, you could play tricks using double track. Your mainline track can look like double track from a scenic standpoint, but operate as single track. At some point the two parallel mainlines will have to cross over and you end up with twice the mainline run in the same space. Of course all of each town's industries will need to be on one side of the mainline.
Third, if you're modeling the mountains, it's not uncommon for two mainlines to be in one scene as railroads often had to snake around to gain elevation. Thus your mainline could travel through the same scene twice with one at a higher elevation and look quite believable.
Ericboone
Thanks - very helpful suggestions.
Helix construction & principles - can you suggest any useful articles/guides?
Many years indeed!
The "stacked mainlines" article is in the November 1966 MR, starting on page 36.
Thank you garyla
MR back issues available from MR start in 1973 so any suggestions as to a source for the Nov'66 MR?
-Railpub.com has an excellent selection of back issues for sale. It's not the cheapest way to go, but it is quck and reliable. Nice to do business with.
-Back issues of that vintage (and much older) show up regularly on eBay. Sometimes you might have to buy a whole year's worth to get the edition you want, but still at reasonable cost.
-Most train show/swap meet events have vendors with the more popular mags (like MR) in good quantities.
Whichever way you go, you should not have much trouble finding one. Good hunting!
Ok
Ebay had it.
Many thanks
The new age way of layout design dictate to not run through the scene more than once but in our great big world of model railroading we risk restraining ourselves to much, in my opinion. One of the tricks is to name various locations to pull the viewer/operator into the area where the train is and not consider all the surroundings. Remember this is all my opinion so take as such.
You have a nice space so plan carefully and settle on a plan that is reasonable to build and maintain. If you gave us a bit more to go on some of us love to tackle these things and give options.
Here is my layout that is 15x17 N scale. Just to give you an idea.
John
I like your 'L' layout & will use its 'form' to describe my space situation.
I am HO scale, currently in distaff negotiations for portion of a 2.5 car garage.
At the moment, using your layout plan as I see it on screen - & 'top left, top right', terminology:
I have available:
Starting Top right corner (TRC) & heading anti clockwise along garage wall to top left corner (TLC): 20'
Drop down garage wall from TLC to Bottom left Corner (BLC): 14'
Turn 90 degrees right/run horizontal: 6'
Turn 90 degrees to the vertical & head towards top: 6'
Turn 90 degrees to the right & head parallel to top & bottom edge of layout schema: 14'
Turn 90 degrees vertical & reach TRC in : 8'
I hope that makes sense.
Besides a long 'Main Run', I would like to have a helix, possibly in the bottom left corner, feeding up to track along the 2 walls and a section with a logging theme as I have a few Shay/Heisler engines. Plus some staging & I am obliged to put a horse farm/barn somewhere.
I would also , using DC, ideally like to run up to 4 trains concurrently & was pondering setting up 2 electrically 'independent' layouts on the 'L' that 'fly over' over each other here & there.
Of course this is a bit over the top for a 1st layout<g>
Any suggestions/thoughts are welcomed.
Hi, This might be some help. I just had entered this under another thread just moments ago, so here you are.
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Hi Alan,
The information you are looking for is in the Decenber 2004 edition of "Railroad Model Craftsman" on pages 88 to 90. This shows you cutting diagrams and such. I think the only thing you have to figure out is the width of the pieces in regard to the number of tracks that you will have on the helix.
The title of the article is "Octagonal Helixes"
I used this several years ago and mine is a 4 1/2 turn helix with only a single track as I am a lone operator and there wouldn't be a time when I was running one up and another down at the same time.
It has worked well and I have been pleased with it. I wish you the same success.
By the way I used threaded rods rather than blockes of wood for support, much the same as Mark Bruton did. If you use the search button on the bottom and type in Helix you will find lots of hints and tips, and probably even the pictures of Mark's (Behumouth) (I think he calls it) Helix.
That magazine is "Railroad Model Craftsman" Not Model Railroader.
Johnboy out....................
from Saskatchewan, in the Great White North..
We have met the enemy, and he is us............ (Pogo)
Thanks for that info.
Will follow it up.
Running out of this discussion is an interest in Layout Design Software & I will post a new thread on that shortly.
spidge wrote:Here is my layout that is 15x17 N scale. Just to give you an idea.
Removing the /thumbs/ part of the image URL, so it is possible to see some details when you click on the image to zoom in ...
Smile, Stein
My layout has very little mainline running as such. The longest run would be the primary Maine Central train that would traverse the layout one and a half times after departing staging, about 80', passing through several "vignettes" on the way. The vignettes in this case would be Whitefield, NH (one entire side of the layout), Gilman and the paper mill, and the crossing of the Connecticut River (another side and a half) before arriving in St. Johnsbury (another long side of the layout). CP trains arrive in St. Johnsbury from staging, conduct their business, and then return to staging. B&M trains operate through Whitefield between Woodsville (staging) and the B&M "receiving yard" (new layout construction) across the river from the Berlin paper mill. The Berlin paper mill is a soon-to-be work-in-progress. As I said, each of these vignettes are simply a group of scenes through which trains pass giving the illusion of distance.
Cheers, Marty on Vancouver Island
TankedEngine
Page 80 Model Railroader January 1997 Article about Multideck Layouts ("Mushroom") Might be of interest to you.
Marty - Read, with great interest, your plans re the Berlin paper mill. Used to own property on the Berlin-Gorham townline, just up from the tracks. Seem to remember a RR bridge going across the river, & an old station, near the mill.
Westshorefan
I had a quick look at the magazine article for this last night.
Quite interesting.
It could be described as a 'big' helix that follows the shape of the walls of a room & climbs up a level each circuit.
I think the unofficial term for that is a "nolix," basically a long grade that starts on a lower level and ends on an upper level.
Some random tips on maximizing mainline run without having to negotiate for more layout space:
Don't run track parallel to the tabletop. Swooping curves and track that isn't parallel means more total length, as well as aesthetically looking better.
Run trains more slowly. This may seem like a goofy thing but running trains at realistic operating speeds means the train takes longer to complete a circuit.
Operate. Stopping for things like red block signals (even if you don't have a working signal system, you can pretend) or in front of a diamond at an interchange with another railroad (and stopping realistically, that is to say, slowly) increases the total time needed to traverse the layout, and also involves the operator more directly with what is going on. Because you're paying attention to the process, it seems to take longer (even as it actually does take longer) for the same reason that a watched pot never boils--your anticipation and involvement spreads out the perception of time.
Good points.
As an aside I received a helpful and interesting email overnight that referred me to a discussion elsewhere about 'Quality' of run Vs 'Quantity'.
Worth reading in the context of this discussion.
Google/Advanced search/English language/use exact phrase.
Put this query in in capitals:
GETTING A GOOD QUALITY OF RUN
That should find it.
Continuing on with finding or evolving a trackplan that gives a decent mainline run - & with a possible change in layout location from a garage to a bedroom - I am edging towards a variant of an Atlas layout.
From memory its the Central Midland, it may be about # 29 in their series. Packs a lot of track in a small area. Possibly work a helix in at one end & put in a 2nd level of track that follows 2 walls. At the pondering & doodling stage.
I wonder if anyone has constructed the Central Midland & has tips on what to watch out for? One of the things i like about it is despite its twists & turns, corners are predominantly 22" radius.
I have just set up a small 18" radius curve based oval next to my loco repair desk & noticed last night when running different engines around it that a couple of 6 axle Diesels did not like the 18" curve & pushed the front pair of wheels in the front truck off the rails. Also a 2-8-2 steam loco would not negotiate the 18" curves. Should they have been ok & I need to tune them or bank the corners or what??
TankedEngine wrote: I have just set up a small 18" radius curve based oval next to my loco repair desk & noticed last night when running different engines around it that a couple of 6 axle Diesels did not like the 18" curve & pushed the front pair of wheels in the front truck off the rails. Also a 2-8-2 steam loco would not negotiate the 18" curves. Should they have been ok & I need to tune them or bank the corners or what??
As you mentioned earlier in that post it would be a much better idea to design with 22" curves. The bigger the radius the less tollerance issues there will be.