I am currently refining my CSX Dixie Line track plan and have reached sort of a "creativity roadblock." If you look at the current version of the plan for my lower level...
...you will notice that the shape of the plan results in two horseshoe curves--one in the upper left corner and one in the lower left corner--as the track around the wall shelves bends around to the peninsula. I am stuck as to what to do with these two areas. You can see on the upper left one I have located a Goodyear plant, although I am not completely satisfied with that location. It seems like on many layouts with a similar arrangement, a simple forest has been implemented to hide the unusual 180 degree curve of the trackage. Sure does seem like I can use this space more wisely. For example, I could come out another foot from the leftmost wall to gain more layout, effectively shortening the length of the aisles while not compromising witdth. Ideas? Can anyone share how they have placed industries, towns or other features on this type of space? Thanks, Jamie
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Off the cuff suggestion..........
You could open up the radius of both turns as they head into the penisula in such a way that they finish their 180 degrees of curvature on the opposite side of the peninsula......Then you could bury the approach into the curve into a cut or a tunnel. You then could use the space inside the curves you gain for spurs to serve the "TBD industries" on both sides of the peninsula.
Some elevation changes would need to be made to accomodate this but the horshoe effect would be eliminated.......
Nice plan BTW....
Martin
Jamie--
Don't know if this helps or not, but I've got two reverse horseshoes on the Yuba River Sub to gain elevation out of Deer Creek Yard. On the first one I've put the Champion gold mine to the left of the apex to help 'disguise' it, the other one some four feet later has a passing track, a small station (Wagon Wheel Gap) plus a stock-loading spur.
Here's some photos, if it helps:
Champion Mine on the first horseshoe:
Wagon Wheel Gap on the second horseshoe:
Tom
Tom View my layout photos! http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/TWhite-014/Rio%20Grande%20Yuba%20River%20Sub One can NEVER have too many Articulateds!
I honestly don't see those types of curves as a negative unless the radius is exceptionally tight. Curves viewed from the inside of the curve look larger than curves viewed from the outside.
That said, you could widen the radius and have the two mainlines on the penisula cross over each other. Obviously elevation changes would be required and one track would have to go into a tunnel or under a couple of bridges under the other track. Your backdrop would have to go away at the base of the penisula or be skewed so the non-tunneled track is visible through the larger radius.
I would not recommend having the mainlines travel down the opposite sides of the penisula as that would make following your train difficult.
Hudson wrote: Off the cuff suggestion..........You could open up the radius of both turns as they head into the penisula in such a way that they finish their 180 degrees of curvature on the opposite side of the peninsula......Then you could bury the approach into the curve into a cut or a tunnel. You then could use the space inside the curves you gain for spurs to serve the "TBD industries" on both sides of the peninsula.Some elevation changes would need to be made to accomodate this but the horshoe effect would be eliminated.......Nice plan BTW....Martin
The problem with the 'cross the peninsula' plan is that it kills the opportunity to walk along with the train you're operating, which is one of the big advantages of the current plan.
What you do with the horseshoes should be influenced by two things, the operating plan and the scenery desired. While there is a temptation to have 'operating interest' along every millimeter of mainline, there is also an advantage to devoting space to pure scenery.
So, why would the prototype have a horseshoe curve? Is the track following along the bank of a river that has a horseshoe bend? Or is that the only way to slither between hills while avoiding expensive earthworks, unacceptable grades or both? Maybe, as the OP said, there's a forest. Here in the dessicated desert those humps could be as bald as the upper deck of an egg (but have exotic shapes.)
My layout will have two visible inside horseshoes. In both cases, the terrain is vertical and the track will be punching through finger ridges with a succession of short tunnels, then crossing the intervening gorges on short bridges or masonry-reinforced fills with BIG culverts. The river being paralleled is virtual, in the aisleway. The area I am modeling is rural and rather sparsely populated, so adding a bunch of industries would be inappropriate.
If the terrain being modeled is mountainous, the entire horseshoe could be put into a tunnel, possibly to be used as a holding spot if the entire train will be out of sight. IIRC, there was one 'operators' layout with a buried horseshoe where every train that entered had to hold for thirty fast-time minutes to give other operators time to switch the towns on opposite sides of the aisleway leading back to it. Of course, that rule was only enforced during 'real' operating sessions, not when the owner was running a train around to entertain mundane visitors.
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
Everyone, Thanks for the feedback. This is helping to get my thinking process moving in the positive direction again.
Tom, Your pictures are very helpful in hinting at ways I can place structures in the horseshoe to disguise the non-prototypical turnback curves in the two spots I have.
Chuck, The problem with these two curves in that they fall smack in the middle of towns so its hard for me to think of what to put there. However, thanks to the comments received so far, I think I have some ideas of how to do some things like moving that Goodyear plant into the center of the curve and rotating it so that it obsures the curve somewhat. On the upper level I have the same track arrangement, but the horseshoes fit in very well with the actual scenery of the area modeled.
Jamie
If the curves fall in a town area then a few tall buldings will break up the view of the curve.
You could also add a turnout just before the curve and have a track go at an angle across the corner, ending in a mirror or tucking behind a building. It would be a dummy track that really doesn't get used, but it would break up the curve. It could be the junction of a branch or something. (Hey, that gives you a reason for the town and part of it's name too! Welcome to __________ Junction!)
Hey Chuck,
I know what you mean, I figure though since the track going down the peninsula is heading to either staging or the upper level via the helix following at that point isn't such a big deal.
It really depends on the scene and where you want to focus...........
Grampys Trains wrote:Hi Jamie: In my opinion, I'd have to agree with Chuck. I have 2 180 deg. curves just like yours. The first is a double track with 30" and 28" r. curves. I have them entering a cut with just enough trees and brush to partially hide the curve. The second, has 28" and 26" r. curves. These follow a stream, with high mountains on one side. It's your call as to whether you prefer buildings or scenery. Here's a few pics. Hope this helps.
Gramps, It is VERY helpful seeing these pics. I may be worried a bit too much because the trains look great on those curves. Jamie
Actually, out here on the West Coast a double-horseshoe (or very close to it) is not really uncommon. On the old SP lines (now UP), there is one on the Donner Pass line at Blue Canyon, and the Cuesta Grade on the Coast Line is almost a double-horseshoe to gain elevation over the Santa Margarita Mountains. There's also a near-double horseshoe on the Shasta Division in Oregon, north of Cascade Summit, and the old Siskiyou Line (Now CORP owned) had one over Siskiyou Summit.
So at least we modelers, when faced with one, have some prototypes to fall back on.
I would put a water crossing in one of the corners. The tracks could go over a low trestle or a set of concrete piers, depending on your chosen era.
I find that having the trains go behind things really makes the layout look bigger, particularly if you can make the whole train "disappear" for a while. Consider some buildings on the insides of the curves to do this, or build up the terrain so that the tracks go through a shallow valley or cut.
On the lower left, you might try elevating the outer track just a bit - an inch at most, to make the curve more interesting.
A curved turnout would allow you to add a spur on the outside of the horseshoes without having to insert a straight section. Another option might be an abandoned spur, with poorly-maintained roadbed, a number of ties and a few rails, going to an abandoned building.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
hey man what program did you use to make that? I really like that layout... as in like, the layout of the picture and how it looks. YOUR layout is cool too, haha.
One thing you could do to eliminate the horseshoe is to combine the idea of having the tracks go through to the other side but keeping it so you can walk along with your train. Have the circles extend into the other side of the peninsula, through a tunnel, but then come back to the end of the peninsula where it meets the wall, forming kind of a hump close to the wall. This way you're getting a longer mainline run, but you've kept pretty much the same route/direction idea of the horseshoe curves.
DeadheadGreg wrote: hey man what program did you use to make that? I really like that layout... as in like, the layout of the picture and how it looks. YOUR layout is cool too, haha. One thing you could do to eliminate the horseshoe is to combine the idea of having the tracks go through to the other side but keeping it so you can walk along with your train. Have the circles extend into the other side of the peninsula, through a tunnel, but then come back to the end of the peninsula where it meets the wall, forming kind of a hump close to the wall. This way you're getting a longer mainline run, but you've kept pretty much the same route/direction idea of the horseshoe curves.
If you are asking what program I used to create the track plan drawing, it is Microsoft Visio. As for your idea for the curves, I was just downstairs staring the the new peninsula construction and had a similar thought. I think this is actually similar to what Eric Brooman did on his new Utah Belt. Jamie
While you are not modeling the actual Pennsy Horseshoe Curve - you may find looking at the prototype foilage and reservoir to be a source of inspiration for at least one of your curves...
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/horseshoe.html
...and you could include lineside structures such as towers, etc.
Note how you can come out of the helix and continue to "do a nolix" around that lower curve. The prototype has a different height from one curve apex to the other curve apex where "...the west side is 122 feet higher than the east side."
Conemaugh Road & Traction circa 1956
tgindy wrote: While you are not modeling the actual Pennsy Horseshoe Curve - you may find looking at the prototype foilage and reservoir to be a source of inspiration for at least one of your curves...http://www.northeast.railfan.net/horseshoe.html...and you could include lineside structures such as towers, etc.Note how you can come out of the helix and continue to "do a nolix" around that lower curve. The prototype has a different height from one curve apex to the other curve apex where "...the west side is 122 feet higher than the east side."
Ah we are very much on similar wavelengths here...the scene below (two different angles) is actually along the line I am modeling. This long causeway will flow completely around one of the horseshoes with nothing but the water to reflect the trains on either side:
Pasadena Sub wrote: DeadheadGreg wrote: hey man what program did you use to make that? I really like that layout... as in like, the layout of the picture and how it looks. YOUR layout is cool too, haha. One thing you could do to eliminate the horseshoe is to combine the idea of having the tracks go through to the other side but keeping it so you can walk along with your train. Have the circles extend into the other side of the peninsula, through a tunnel, but then come back to the end of the peninsula where it meets the wall, forming kind of a hump close to the wall. This way you're getting a longer mainline run, but you've kept pretty much the same route/direction idea of the horseshoe curves.If you are asking what program I used to create the track plan drawing, it is Microsoft Visio. As for your idea for the curves, I was just downstairs staring the the new peninsula construction and had a similar thought. I think this is actually similar to what Eric Brooman did on his new Utah Belt. Jamie
That's what I was getting at earlier too. If you're a subscriber, you can see his track plan at:
Pasadena Sub wrote: asking what program I used to create the track plan drawing, it is Microsoft Visio. As for your idea for the curves, I was just downstairs staring the the new peninsula construction and had a similar thought. I think this is actually similar to what Eric Brooman did on his new Utah Belt. Jamie
asking what program I used to create the track plan drawing, it is Microsoft Visio. As for your idea for the curves, I was just downstairs staring the the new peninsula construction and had a similar thought. I think this is actually similar to what Eric Brooman did on his new Utah Belt. Jamie
YES. perfect example. Only I would maybe bring the track back in a little sooner instead of fanning it out so much.
Hi everyone, just wanted to show what I have done at the end of one of the aisles to address this issue. If you recall, I have two levels and two aisles, so four places where I will have complete 180 degree horseshoes. While both levels on one of the aisles actually feature the horseshoe curves as part of the scenery, I thought that two more would be a bit much. So, thanks in a big way to some of the suggestions I received on this forum, I deepened the benchwork at the end of the other aisle to a full 24". This way, I can put more scenery in the foreground and deemphasize the horseshoe to the background of the scene. I think this will work out well and have a few good ideas that I need to work into the track plan.
Here are a few views of the end of the modified aisle: