DCC UTP Panels

[Anonymous]

My club has a NCE DCC system on our modular layout. The modules have NCE utp panels except for one members. His has Digitrax panels on his since he has Digitrax at home and incorporates the modules into his home layout. We were all under the impression that the utp panels were universal. When we hook the daisy chain up to his panels, the cab bus goes dead. Our run is long and we have a "wall wart" to boost the signal as recommended by NCE. If we by-pass his panels with ones from NCE, everything is fine.
Also, the NCE has an arrow pointing to the direction of the command station in relation to the daisy chain. The digitrax has "loconet L" and "loconet R" listed as well as a third port with no label on the rear side. We have plugged the daisy chain in all different ways since it doesnot designate which side to command station. The Digitrax does have the same jack to plug the wall wart in if needed.
We are having an open house this weekend and are finally having the daisy chain all the way around.
Are these interchangeable or not, or have we missed something.

[Anonymous]

Every DCC manufacturer has his own "internal" standards for how data is exchanged. DCC has "loco net". The only thing that is universal, covered by NMRA standards, is the interface to the decoder. That's why you can use Soundtraxx decoders with Digitrax throttles.

[denny99]

QUOTE: Originally posted by DonCameron

Every DCC manufacturer has his own "internal" standards for how data is exchanged. DCC has "loco net". The only thing that is universal, covered by NMRA standards, is the interface to the decoder. That's why you can use Soundtraxx decoders with Digitrax throttles.

Not exactly. DCC hasn't "Loconet". Loconet is a Digitrax trademark, but other manufacturers use it (Uhlenbrock, NCE, etc...). You can plug a Uhlenbrock handheld controller into a Digitrax system and expect it to work. As long as the data exchange format is the same, you can mix different manufacturer items.

rocky451, I don't know about NCE but it should work with Digitrax panels.

[ClinchValleySD40]

I believe they are different, not interchangeable. But with very little knowledge of the Digitrax system, that is just a guess. This would be a good question for the NCE chat group over at Yahoo.

[Anonymous]

Every manufacture has its own architecture, but some use the same networking such as Lenz, Roco and Atlas use Express net.
I went to the NCE web site and it does say thay the UTP Panel is compatible with Digitrax Loconet, therefore, I would assume the reverse is true, the Digitrix panel should work. Perhaps there is something wired different in the Digitrax panel or that particular panel is not compatible with the NCE system. Maybe the solution is for the member with the Digitrax system install a NCE UPT panel.
I didn't read anything in your post about his Digitrax throttle being pluged in, so I asume the throttle is not involved.
What is the model or part number of the Digitrax panel? Check the Digitrax web site to see if you can find the wiring diagram for that panel.

[Anonymous]

He is not using his throttles here. We just thought the utp panels were universal. We assumed this since we noticed that the NCE panel stated it worked with Digitrax systems. So, one would think that Digitrax would work with NCE. He forgot to bring his instruction sheet with him today. If we determine that they definitely will not work, he is going to install the NCE panel next to the Digitrax. May look confusing, but if you could see his modules, you would know why we want them with our club layout and he has to have them with his home layout. They are AWESOME!!!!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rocky451

..... He forgot to bring his instruction sheet with him today. .....

Rocky, if the panel is a UP5, click on the words "wiring diagram" for the instruction sheet in pdf format.

QUOTE: ....he is going to install the NCE panel next to the Digitrax....

If replacing the Digitrax panel with a NCE panel works, maybe the NCE panel will work with the home layout as advertized and he won''t need two panels.

Let us know what happens.

[Anonymous]

We did notice that the NCE panels are slightly shorter than the Digitrax. So the holes will not line up to swap. He brought the instructions which were not much help. But, I noticed that the Digitrax showed to install jumper wires to carry the auxillary power from the "wall wart" booster. NCE does not. The Digirax did not specify which port would lead to the command unit in the daisy chain.

[Anonymous]

Here is what Digitrax says about their cab bus wiring.

QUOTE: LocoNet can actually run on just 2 or 3 wires. In a 6 wire flat configuration, as crimped onto a RJ12 6 pin style plug, the left 3 wires are effectively a "mirror" image of the right 3 wires. This allows you to "daisy-chain" outlets without worrying about whether the cables are "reversing" or "non-reversing."

There are 2 ground and 2 LocoNet data connections, so the effective "loop resistance" is lower due to paralleled wires. If a ground or signal connection is broken or intermittent the network can still maintain a reliable connection.
The two outside wires, typically Blue and White in a 6 conductor Telco ribbon, actually carry opposite phase copies of the master system rail packets, this is called RAIL SYNC. Because these are broadcast differentially in a single cable, we can accurately and reliably tap a remote Track booster anywhere along a LocoNet cable run.

The LocoNet philosophy and architecture were carefully crafted to allow "free-form" wiring with no termination or "linear-bus" restrictions. You can "star", "tee" into, branch or expand the network any way that is convenient for you. If you do choose to "loop" the wiring back on itself (like a snake biting its tail) be sure that the outside 2 RailSync wires have a matched polarity! The center 4 pins of the RJ12 can be plugged in either orientation.

The additional RJ12 jack on the side of the panel for hooking up additional throttles or LocoNet devices that won’t be daisy chained to other devices.
The two systems are totaly different even though they use the same kinds of jacks. I don't know why NCE says their panel works with the Digitrax system.
They're probably not interchangable because the connections for the power (wall wart) is wired up to the RJ-12 jacks using different pins in the Digitrax panel than the NCE panel.

I hope your open house was a big success [tup]

[Anonymous]

The Digitrax panels that the club member has on his modules have the extra jack on the rear for the throttle. His friend was curious about the problem and brought a different digitrax panel. It does not have the extra jack. We put his panel in the chain and things continued working. ???? I wi***hat I could tell you the two different part numbers of the digitrax panels, but did not get a chance to get the information. This seems wierd that on type panel will work with the NCE system but the other will not. We did have two of each style to test with. May be a good lesson for clubs: When voting for which system the club will buy, everyone needs to stick to the same manufacturer for the club setup!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rocky451

The Digitrax panels that the club member has on his modules have the extra jack on the rear for the throttle. His friend was curious about the problem and brought a different digitrax panel. It does not have the extra jack. We put his panel in the chain and things continued working. ???? I wi***hat I could tell you the two different part numbers of the digitrax panels, but did not get a chance to get the information. This seems wierd that on type panel will work with the NCE system but the other will not. We did have two of each style to test with. May be a good lesson for clubs: When voting for which system the club will buy, everyone needs to stick to the same manufacturer for the club setup!

Uhmm! Go figure. There must be something wrong with the wiring of the first panel. Since both systems both use RJ-12, 6 pin phone jacks it's logical it would work as long as the pins are not cross wired. I know it isn't required to use the manufacturers panels, they just look neater and easier to install. Any 6 pin RJ-12 jack that you can buy from a electronics supply store will work as long as you wire it correctly. I wish I could examine the first Digitrax panel. I wonder if there is a short, loose or a broken connection. The Digitrax system was designed to be redundant so a loose connection or break in the wire will not affect the his Loconet system.
Keeping everything to one manufacturs system does make life easy. However it's got to be a bummer if you have one system at home then your club picks another that is not compatible. It's understanable that the throttles are uncompatible because of the way data is transferd, but a RJ-12 jack is still a RJ-12 jack anywhere on the planet.

[Anonymous]

He has two modules with the same Digitrax panels installed. Otherwise we would suspect one bad panel. But two bad panels? I think that there would be more bad panel out there and Digitrax owners would know about it. We will be setting up for a display locally that will last through the summer. (SOME GOOD LUCK!!!). Maybe will get to look into this mystery further. I think the same as gsetter: rj12 jack is a rj12.