Hi All,
I'm curious where I can learn how to tell a good tack plan from a lemon. I haven't started consrtuction yet but have looked at a lot of track plans from some different books, Atlas etc. In my research however, on this forum for example, several have said that many of the pre-made track plans leave much to be desired. Where does a newbie find out what to avoid?
I don't want to reinvent the wheel nor do I wish to have something just given to me without my having to do some work for it. I'm old fashoned that way. I know there is a track plan database on the MR site but until the staff at MR will answer my question as to why it cost $42.95 to subscribe online, while they put a subscription card in the magazine for $32.95 I am going to wait.
As for scale and space, HO, space right now until I can bargin with the wife I could go with a 4x8 BUT that does NOT mean it has to stay a 4x8. I have no problem cutting a sheet and making say a 5x6 or something else but no I can't do an around the wall. As to operations well, I have two kids a nine year old little girl and a six year old little boy so some intricate switching layout is not part of the equation. I'm looking forward to doing the scenery and running, the kids just want run the trains. The train set for now is a DCC GP-40 and three cars from Rocco.
Thanks for the bandwidth,
Tom
Welcome, O Lurker of forums...
The closest thing you will find for a textbook for Track Planning 101 is John Armstrong's book, Track Planning for Realistic Operation, published by our forum host, Kalmbach Publishing. In it he tells you how to determine what YOU want in a track plan, and then how to go about designing it.
Bear in mind, operation is a very personal thing. To one individual, it may be watching a single train running around a single loop like a puppy chasing its tail. To another, it has to be a continuous game of put-take-sort as freight cars move from spot to spot on the layout. To a third, it is modeling every detail of (fillintheblank) down to the flower pot in Mrs. Murphy's back bedroom window. Obviously, given identical spaces for building, the result would be three very different track plans.
Another thing to consider is that no track plan is ever set in stone. In his professionally drawn track plans John Armstrong almost always left some spur or 'abandoned' track where the builder could add on or modify. His largest layouts were almost always designed to be built in stages, to get trains rolling early.
My big thing is operating to my prototype's published timetable. Once my layout is rather more finished, I'll be able to do that - but there's over four decades of experience in the design, and I'm still not there yet. Meanwhile, wheels are rolling on the track I do have.
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
John Armstrong's Track Planning for Realistic Operation is the best fundamental source, as others have noted.
I wrote a series of posts about a dozen or so things I consider when looking at a plan in my blog. (The link is to an index of the 5 blog posts)
It's a shame that most published plans have flaws that range in degree from ongoing mild annoyance to fatal. This is true even of design contest "winners". It's too bad that the commercial press does not at least mention some of these potential concerns when publishing a plan.
In addition, a significant percentage of published plans simply cannot be built as drawn. This happens because folks don't allow enough room for turnouts, track-to-track spacing, clearance to buildings and walls, etc.
Some general advice is to take published plans with a grain of salt, and where you can, start with one that is actually a bit smaller than your available space ... that way you'll have room to correct problems as you build it.
Byron
Layout Design GalleryLayout Design Special Interest Group
I also recommend John Armstrong's book Track Planning for Realistic Operation. In HO, you can use a 4x8 sheet of plywood, but you'll get a better result using 2 sheets. Cutting both sheets at 5'4" will allow you to have a 5'4"x12' layout (You can also arrange them as a 5'4"x10'8" by using only part of one of the small peices). The advantage is that you can use wider curves and you have room for longer trains and more sideings.
Enjoy
Paul
Take your time and do research. Planning is a lot of fun and is an important part of the hobby. Besides the Armstrong book, I also recommend Koester's operation book so you know what to do with it after its built, and even if you care about that stuff.. Andy Sperendeo's book on Yards is also good, even if you don't have a yard on your layout there is one before or after where your layout is..
You should be able to provide continous running for your kids while at the same time presenting your railroad as a point to point railroad for more serious "adult play". Look for plans where this is accomplished by having the link between the two point to point ends hidden so you can operate it either way. You kids will enjoy running trains around the loop and you can enjoy doing whatever works for you.. a friend of mine has a layout with serious operations that also has track 9 3/4 where the Hogwarts express can issue from and pick up passengers from here and there.. he also has a town for each of his kids they worked on themsevles. Yard masters just set out cars for those towns on a special track so they can be switched when the kids decide to do that.
I also can't emphasize enough how helpful it has been to me to build a "first try" model railroad of modest ambition. There is a learning curve.. both the skills of building as well as learning what you want out of the hobby. I am building a 3x5 N layout and it has already caused me to change a lot about my larger layout. You will find it takes longer then you might expect to do things well, by the time you are done you will not only have the skills you need but you will have a much better idea of where you want to go.
Good luck!
Chris
Another vote for John Armstrongs book!
Also, I learned a bunch from all of the articles on this website: http://www.macrodyn.com/ldsig/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page
Track Planning 101 was recently renamed from "Track Planning for Realistic Operation" (Armstrong, 1963). Yes, that book is that good, and you should find an edition and read it at least twice if you feel you don't want to own it. I don't know Koester's book, but I would guess that it is very good.
The important thing to remember, having read the opinions of many members here for a number of years, is to have a firm grasp of what it is you want out of your model railroad. The trouble is, how will you know what you want, or should have, if you don't really know all there can be? Hence, the need to do some serious up-front reading and pondering before you begin a firm list of givens and druthers (those are important considerations...very important).
Your layout could enjoy a long life of providing satisfaction if you build it on the basis of knowledge and thought. Otherwise, it will be a short-lived teardown waiting to happen. The less time you spend on getting to know the hobby's troubles and joys, the sooner the teardown is likely to happen. For some of we more ambitous types, that first teardown can be very expensive.
Not to belabour and lecture...but please do buy or borrow John Armstrong's wonderful book and spend a weekend thinking about how it relates to your dreams.
Hi again,
Thanks for the info on the book, I found a good sample from it on the net and already learned something. Just came back from our rather pathetic local bookstore and placed an order should arrive some time before next Sunday.
I also checked out the Wiki track planning website; looks like some good info their as well. One thing I am sure I will do that will drive the purists nuts is not worry too much about the "Era". I like trains and have always had a soft spot for the C & O and it's evolutions to Chessi and CSX. So when I get my freelance road built I'm sure you will find the wrong style train running though the scene but sometimes you have to march to your own drummer.
http://www.trainplayer.com/
The above link has some good plans. As mentioned before its all a personal choice. What do you expect out of your layout. Do you like mostly mainline trains running continously with minimal switching or will you build a mostly switching layout?
John
I would think that John Olsen's Jerome and Southwestern would fit the bill very nicely for what you want. It is a 4x8, not too complex but with enough operational interest to keep you going for some time. It was a series in MR magazine back in the early 80's, but it's in a book form now.
The J&S is step by step, designed for a newbie, but gives pro results.
The Dixie D Short Line "Lux Lucet In Tenebris Nihil Igitur Mors Est Ad Nos 2001"
All good advise, read, experiment, don't be afraid to make changes. Since you have young children that want to run trains, I would suggest a basic continuous loop for them, you can have a yard or several sidings if you want to operate when you are on your own.
A view block/scenic divider to make the train disappear and reappear seems to be enjoyable to them and also adds interest to you, as a train can disappear, you do some yard work then a train comes in with some new cars and takes some away. Remember the divider does not have to be parallel to the side of the layout or down the center, can be at an end if you want or can be curved a little. The back side does not have to be scenicked, just staging or it can be where the kids pratice their scenery skills.
Have fun, let them have fun and hopefully they will stay with you in the hobby,
ChrisNH wrote: also can't emphasize enough how helpful it has been to me to build a "first try" model railroad of modest ambition. There is a learning curve.. both the skills of building as well as learning what you want out of the hobby. I am building a 3x5 N layout and it has already caused me to change a lot about my larger layout. You will find it takes longer then you might expect to do things well, by the time you are done you will not only have the skills you need but you will have a much better idea of where you want to go. Good luck!Chris
also can't emphasize enough how helpful it has been to me to build a "first try" model railroad of modest ambition. There is a learning curve.. both the skills of building as well as learning what you want out of the hobby. I am building a 3x5 N layout and it has already caused me to change a lot about my larger layout. You will find it takes longer then you might expect to do things well, by the time you are done you will not only have the skills you need but you will have a much better idea of where you want to go.
A 'training' layout is a really good idea. It gives a chance to get your feet wet without the pressure of building the 'perfect' layout right away. If you decide to change later on you'll be able to recycle a lot of the track, trains, buildings, and other stuff.
I went with this approach building a 4x8 version of my Bear Creek and South Jackson before starting on the larger versions. I'm darned glad I did, as what I learned on the 4x8 was very useful.
Regards,
Charlie Comstock
I am really big on the books, but..... One can read and look at pictures in a book all day long and think they know what they want. Then when they put train to track they find out something totally different. When I was in Jr. High all I had was a blank board and a bunch of sectional track. I "built" bunches and bunches of different layouts. I copied them from the books, I made up my own, I took pieces from various plans and put them together in different ways. When I had one set up I ran trains on them. From this I learned what was possible, I learned how the trains ran on the various track plans, and most importantly, I learned what I liked.
All published plans are what some other person likes or thinks other people will like. To this day I keep a blank 4x8 and piles of sectional track to try out different things. I know that today one can get some rail planning software (I have 3DPlanit) that you can run virtual trains on it. But to me that isn't quit the same thing as actually assembling a temporary layout to just try.
My desires went from super big double main line modeling, to single track with passing sidings, to branch line operations. I tried the switching layout and while I love switching puzzels once one learns the "tricks" of a given plan it becomes tedious. I have to have someplace I can get a train out and let it get rolling. Your desires and likes will be different so your "good" track plan will be different from mine.
I'll also endorse the Armstrong book. In addition to the fabulous track planning ideas, I had it open on the bench to do easements when laying out the curves just a while ago. If you are going to do a 4*8 rather than round the walls, here are some things to ponder.
Single track or double track main? A 4*8 needs a main line running clear around the outside. With a double track main, each kid gets to run his/her OWN train at the same time. No waiting for my turn to be engineer. Think about passing sidings, where trains waiting to run can stand at the ready. Think about industrial spurs where a peddler freight can pick up and drop off cars at industries. More is better.
Think about a view block running the long way (the 8 foot way) dividing the table into two scenes. The main line goes thru the view block with tunnels. Just preventing sight of the far edge of the table makes the layout look bigger. Having a backdrop makes photography come out better with the train in a natural background rather than the clutter of an ordinary room. You can scenic one side as a built up area and the other side as something else. Lets you model two things with a natural transistion from one to the other.
Think about a deep river gorge, cut way down below the surface of the layout, with the trains crossing on a great bridge or trestle. You can cut out the gorge after you get trains running.
Try not to run the track straight down the edges of the table. The straight line of the track emphasises the straight edge of the table, making it look like a toy train running on a table. Put some meanders in the main line to break up the table outline.
Think about grades. You need 3 inches clearance from the railhead to get a track to cross over another track. To rise 3 inches at 3%(steep) needs 100 inch run (8'4"), the length of the table. At 2% (moderate) you need 150 inches, 12'6", one side plus one end of the table. If you can work in enough rise, then you can have the lower track enter a hidden underground staging area (bunch of tracks with ready-to-run trains). The upper track continues on in view. With enough staging tracks you can operate many different trains without going thru the "put the train on the track" drill.
Good luck.
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
Such a question is like asking if a particular person would be a good wife or a loyal, life-time companion. I'm surprised anyone was willing to give an answer. I've had too many failures to make me an expert. It is all too personal.
Mark