Another thought...There are many drawbacks, as well as positives to helii in model railroad layouts. It seems that by using 2 helii, you are doubling your negatives with little to no positive return. I would turn the second helix (in this plan, the top left) into two reversing loops, one over the other. Leave the single helix in the middle of the plan to get from one level to the other. Double track the single helix if need be to accommodate bidirectional traffic.
just a thought
Fred W
I agree with the above comments. Here are my .
The branch is awfully short to justify whole trains (branchline trains arrive at the port before completely leaving the junction), and you're spending space on its engine terminal/turntable. I'd suggest a couple of double-ended spurs serving as an auxiliary yard at the junction. Here, mainline trains would drop off and pick up cuts of cars bound to/from the port area. A local switcher would operate on the branch. This way operations will appear more realistic and you will have more space for port facilities and more interesting track arrangements (but don't overdo the industrial switchback tracks.)
Mark
Have you built and operated a 22" radius HO std gauge helix successfully in the past with more than a few cars in a train? A number of experienced modelers have had trouble with a helix this tight, including Joe Fugate, who finally tore out his 24" R helix in frustration and rebuilt it with a much larger radius. If it's your first, might be a tall order.
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Svein, Thanks.
That business about the A/D track and the yard size are what has been bugging me. I couldn't put my finger on the problem.
Between you and Dave, I have some direction --- back to the drawing board.
Thanks! John T.
Dave, thanks! This is what I need, a different perspective.
My comments about 12 foot limit on that wall stem from not being able to have a double ended yard with reasonable length tracks. My passing sidings are limited to 5 to 5.5 foot lengths and of course the train lengths will be much the same.
As to the helices, out of necessity (due to max radius of 22"), they will be single track. There are 2 in order to obtain the bench separation and basically have an oval with a branch. They are a necessary evil in order to have walkin without duckunders or gates of some sort. Even with this, I'll have to get creative with the roadbed in each helix in order to maintain some sort of reasonable grade and clearances.
Again thanks for taking the time to look at this and comment. John T.
jawnt wrote:Svein, THANKS for making the drawing larger -- will have to get someone to teach me how to do all of this. At the moment, my learning curve is vertical.
Svein, THANKS for making the drawing larger -- will have to get someone to teach me how to do all of this. At the moment, my learning curve is vertical.
Linking to a thumbnail is a common mistake, and is easily fixed. If you place your cursor on your original pic and look at your status bar, you'll see that the filename (last part of the URL) starts with "th_", usually that indicates a thumbnail. I just copied your link and removed the "th_" .
The concept for the yard at the end of the branch --- everything in the train is to be delivered and any pickups to be returned to the main yard on the upper level.
OK, so the branch end isn't a yard at all, more like an end station? It might be easier to work with a third through track, which gives the engine a dedicated runaround while the cars are set out on the two tracks you have now.
My biggest concern is the main yard on the upper level --- too crowded? Too many switches? Arrival/Departure tracks?That wall is 12' long which limits me to a stub yard. The 2 tracks along the bottom of the drawing have 4 businesses ( lumber yd/small chemical plant/fertilizer plant/kerosene refinery ) Keep in mind, we are talking 1900 -1910 Texas with no major industry.Opperation concept -- Thru freights East and West from staging stop only at main yd for set out and pick up. Local freights originate at main yd setting out cars on way to end of branch and picking up cars on return to main yd.
That wall is 12' long which limits me to a stub yard. The 2 tracks along the bottom of the drawing have 4 businesses ( lumber yd/small chemical plant/fertilizer plant/kerosene refinery ) Keep in mind, we are talking 1900 -1910 Texas with no major industry.
Opperation concept -- Thru freights East and West from staging stop only at main yd for set out and pick up. Local freights originate at main yd setting out cars on way to end of branch and picking up cars on return to main yd.
I think the yard is a bit to large for your layout, based on the 3 short staging tracks and your operation concept. 3 yards tracks should be more than enough (westbound, eastbound, and local).
Your A/D tracks doesn't work. You have 3 through tracks, but only one of them connects with your yard lead. And the one yard track that connects with both the yard lead and the main line can't really be used as a yard track. Sorry, but unless you want to work through a bunch of switchbacks this is not the right solution...
Svein
Overall, your operating scenario is similar to mine. I would eliminate that yard and replace it with a simple runaround siding or two with turntable lead, i'm curious as to why you feel 12 feet is not enough space to incorporate such features, rolling stock and motive power of your era were much shorter as were consits. Your proposed traffic base doesn't warrant a major yard..Keep it simple..
I personally have no quams about using the main for switching, quite prototypical in a branch line enviorment. For additional flexibilty, I would include additional runaround sidings whenever possible at your primary industries-these could double for car storage or a second live interchange as the mood strikes. I would also avoid the all too common habbit of cramming as much trackage as possible into that helix (i'll spare you my diatribe of helixes)
Overall, I think you have a solid foundation to build upon
Dave
My biggest concern is the main yard on the upper level --- too crowded? Too many switches? Arrival/Departure tracks?
Please keep thinking and commenting John T
I don't see anything obvious, but I can't read the labels which I assume give the operational purpose of the various tracks. The red yard seems quite big, but I've never had a large layout either. The blue branch yard may require some more track to be functional - there is no self-evident yard lead. But if it is acceptable to clog the branch main while breaking down/making up a train, then no harm is done.
My guide for classification yard design and evaluation is http://www.housatonicrr.com/yard_des.html.
hope this helps
jawnt wrote:I hope this works Not knowing how well the image will show up --- the following info:8'x16' space HO scale double deck 22" min radius 1910 time fame all green track = hidden/staging blue track = branch on lower level/small port red track = upper level with agricultural town and small industrial town with yard helix on each blob.I'm primarially interested in your comments on the yard ---- something doesn't seem quite right. Thanks for any input you may have John T. ps:Space is non negotiable and entrance door is on the lower left -- no windows or other doors and at my age duckunders are out
I hope this works
Not knowing how well the image will show up --- the following info:
8'x16' space HO scale double deck 22" min radius 1910 time fame all green track = hidden/staging blue track = branch on lower level/small port red track = upper level with agricultural town and small industrial town with yard helix on each blob.
I'm primarially interested in your comments on the yard ---- something doesn't seem quite right. Thanks for any input you may have John T.
ps:Space is non negotiable and entrance door is on the lower left -- no windows or other doors and at my age duckunders are out
You have linked to the thumbnail image, here's a larger version:
I don't have much experience in yard design, but my first concern is that none of your yard tracks (except the top one, which also doubles as an escape track from the turntable) have direct access to Main. Also, you have a lot of turnouts in and around the yard ladder, are you sure they all will fit in such a small space?
Salty, me too! I've broken it into 2 pieces now to get it loaded into photobucket and try to figure out how to make it bigger --- gonna have to wait a bit, company is about to walk in the front door.
Sorry John T