Steve,
I remember hearing something about that on the news. I had only heard that it was being played at the Rivoli. I'll have to watch that tonight. The town I'm doing is Mankato MN, but learning about La Crosse will help as well. I thought about modeling La Crosse. There is quite a bit of rail activity around here. My wife use to be the manager at the gas station in Trempealeau. She was the cute blond if you remember!
Greetings Corey,
I've been following your thead and it seems you have gotten some good ideas to improve your basic plan. Just thought I would mention that on CH 31 WHLA PBS station at 10:00 PM tonight (Tuesday) there is a program on the history of La Crosse. I think it is the same one I saw the other day. Very interesting, including some RR history. I hope you read this in time to see the program tonight. It might give you some additional ideas.
With Best Regards
Steve
Elmer,
I built a 4x8 starter layout last year. It has since been demolished due an upcoming move. The spark that got me excited again was the thought of modeling downtown Mankato. Well, one thing lead to another and here I am trying to actually model a 'railroad'. On a limited basis of course.
Jeff,
I ran the idea of a room circling extension to my wife. She didn't seem to care. She was more excited about the corner desk we are going to purchase for her. Right now she is using the kitchen table and our small computer desk. I may actually get to go all the way around the room! An extension will only be eight to twelve inches in width though. I may need to build a small town on the other side of the room. A place to pick up grain and people. Oh my gosh, this is better than Christmas! Better yet, I will actually have money to build this sucker with when I start my new job on Thursday! Hooray!
secondhandmodeler wrote:Jeff, Trust me, I've had visions of using the whole space. I've also had visions of my wife throwing a fit! The main obstacles to the around the whole room are the height of wall where the computers will go, and the large hallway/doorway. The bottom wall is a half wall separating the space from the stairway. I'm not sure if the wife will let me build a platform over her head. There would have to be a substantial lift out/ swing bridge built to span the hallway. The scale of that kind of project may scare my wife off of the whole thing. I would also have to completely cross the windows. That's not a huge deal, but I may be over stepping my boundaries. We'll see what kind of reaction I get from her. I think if I could keep the 'mainline' run around the walls narrow enough, I may be able to pull it off. With a very narrow shelf I could maybe mount it on the walls. Hmmmm..... the possibilities are endless!
Trust me, I've had visions of using the whole space. I've also had visions of my wife throwing a fit! The main obstacles to the around the whole room are the height of wall where the computers will go, and the large hallway/doorway. The bottom wall is a half wall separating the space from the stairway. I'm not sure if the wife will let me build a platform over her head. There would have to be a substantial lift out/ swing bridge built to span the hallway. The scale of that kind of project may scare my wife off of the whole thing. I would also have to completely cross the windows. That's not a huge deal, but I may be over stepping my boundaries. We'll see what kind of reaction I get from her. I think if I could keep the 'mainline' run around the walls narrow enough, I may be able to pull it off. With a very narrow shelf I could maybe mount it on the walls. Hmmmm..... the possibilities are endless!
Well, we don't want you living in your car with your trains and your current plan would probably avoid that. I wasn't considering a towering layout completely over a desk but more as you suggest, a 12 inch or so shelf around the room, which is why I suggested a railfan around the space. For some operational interest, you're off to a good start in your current plan as it is. Here's something else worth considering.. Anything large that has to be portable under my layout, is on wheels. Easily pulled out when needed, pushed back when not.
John Armstrong wrote an article several years back called "Staging On the Mainline" where the mainline was essentially a double track. Several crossovers were included to create several train length passing sidings. With such a setup, it wouldn't be difficult to have 3 or 4 trains active on the mainline, operating in some sort of schedule. That would create enough traffic to keep the circle from getting too boring. Yes, the possibilities, even for a narrow shelf, are virtually endless.
Your original goal was aimed (I thought) at modeling specific settings rather than concerning with a lot of operations (for now). While I agree that just a circle of track railfan gets boring fast for running trains, it's a start and if planned ahead a little can leave space for 'changes' later as your skill and interests increase (don't know your experience level). It isn't very difficult to cut in a turnout when you want to add something. It isn't that difficult to expand benchwork when you've negotiated the right of way with the CEO. I'm sure what you want to avoid as well, is Mrs. having to 'duck under' So as your plans become more solidified, I'll be more than happy to help you spend your money.. Just drop me a line at the email link or PM link to catch me.
Hmmm - trying to combine your town & station area (upper left hand corner, walls left and top) with the basic idea behind the HOGRR (narrow O-shaped layout with passing sidings in two opposing corners) - here is one possible proposal:
No idea if this will work for you. I see you are using XtrkCad - here is a link to the layout file for the plan above - feel free to download it (rightclick, save as) and play around with it until you have something that works for you:
http://home.online.no/~steinjr/trains/modelling/forum/2ndhand.xtc
Smile, Stein
Corey, if this is your first layout, you may feel that all you want to do is run trains and rail-fan. However, this will get old fast, even before you get all of your scenery finished. It's better to plan for operations at the start, even if you don't use them. It is way harder to put them in later. (Been there - Done that.)
For operations there are some basic things that you need. 1- A place for cars to be held for switching (yard). 2- Some industries to ship and receive goods. 3- Trains to deliver the cars to the industries and back. 4- A track route to follow.
So far it looks like you will have it all, even though on a small scale. There are other things of course that make it more enjoyable, like hiding trains in staging, more towns and industries, longer runs, etc. Industries usually depart or diverge from a passing track. The passing track allows two things: 1- It allows other trains to pass; and 2- It allows the engine to run around it's own train to uncouple and move cars to where they are needed.
If you have access to both sides of some of your layout sections, you are not limited by how far you can reach from one side, so a three foot wide surface area in those places would be OK, although they may be hard to design a track plan for.
BTW, I would put the highway bridge in, but model it as an older style, two lane type. It would add more scenic interest.
Elmer.
The above is my opinion, from an active and experienced Model Railroader in N scale and HO since 1961.
(Modeling Freelance, Eastern US, HO scale, in 1962, with NCE DCC for locomotive control and a stand alone LocoNet for block detection and signals.) http://waynes-trains.com/ at home, and N scale at the Club.
Corey,
If you only need fit computer desks in there, some serious damage (in a good way) can be done with that much space. Especially if it is as open as you've drawn it. We can expand those passenger tracks around to the left so you can actually fit full passenger trains on each track. I see your upper yard has grown as well. Consider the bench height now for a minute. Depending on the size of your computer monitors, desks as well as a workbench can comfortably fit under a well planned layout. Your only problem then becomes the doorways. Not insurmountable as swing bridges can actually be built onto the doors (if you own them) or swing gates in front of doorways (if you don't).
Even if just a railfan layout, picture it.. Fast moving passenger trains moving from one terminal to another around nice wide sweeping curves .. Intermingling via passing sidings with freight trains moving goods from one facility to another.
You said, (I think) that you don't know exactly how railroads work. I would suggest a copy of Track Planning For Realistic Operation by John Armstrong. The first half is dedicated to how railroads operate (at the time of writing) and the second half is dedicated to planning a layout to accomplish realistic ops and settings.
Thanks Elmer, I didn't mean to be whiny. I just know that placing a thread in this section tends to bring less responses. However, the quality of responses has been great so far.
The bottom position will be the only rural area I'm modeling. There is a trestle near my home town that I want to model. It was actually on the Milwaukee line, but who's keeping track?
Here's a picture of the trestle from one end.
For the lower left section I think I'll do Hubbard Milling. This mill is actually just north of the depot, but I had to turn the corner.
This is looking from the depot parking lot. The bridge going overhead wasn't built until the eighties.
This is a picture standing on the bridge.
I have actually been looking at the Heart of Georgia website. It's where I came up with the shape I'm gong to build. Granted, mine isn't as uniform as theirs, but it will get the job done. I've been concentrating so hard on the city area and yard that I forgot to add online industries. I started this design process with no intentions of having an operating layout. Then I thought, is it that much harder to plan an operating layout than a rail fanning one? Well, maybe a little, since I don't know how to operate a railroad! I may extend the lower area a little further into the room. That will be decided after the Chairman of the board reviews the plans! Thanks for chiming in again! I'll try to be more patient next time.
Well, the expanded version looks good to me, and don't get discouraged that everyone is not keeping up with your posts. We all have other things going on.
What is going to be in the lower left area with that trackwork you have there? I would go for a large industry of some type. And if you could take it to the bottom wall, that would give you some real switching possibilities. Could it be positioned above your computer or some other office equipment?
I would recommend that you take a look at the "Heart of Georgia" layout at http://www.hogrr.com/
I know you are working and trying to model a specific scene, and that's OK. But you still need to figure out what is going to be on the other sections too. With the HOG, you could expand it to your bench work size and still work in your main scene on one side / upper part. Also check out the inside corner treatments.
I'm guessing nobody cares anymore, but here is an expanded version. Any and all ideas are welcome!
All right, I have sketched out a rough approximation of the space I'll have. This needs to double as a home office for my wife. It also needs to have a place for my computer as well. My wife doesn't care if I block part of the windows. They are basically knee height to ceiling. We have these same windows on all three levels of the townhouse, so blocking part of one is not a huge concern. I do not have the luxury of mounting the bench work to the walls. It must be free standing. If you have any more ideas for me, I'm all ears. I'm thinking of extending the 'yard'' into the corner. I would have access for the outside in that case.
Before I go further with suggestions, a couple questions first.
1. How are you going to access everything? That is, is this an around the room layout or is it free standing so you can access everything from the 'outside' edges? Duck-under? Lift bridge?
2. Is this the extent of your planned layout space (10x8 feet)?
I had to start from darn near scratch. I never saved the version that Chip helped me with. I have the paint shop version, just not the xtrkcad one. Here is a version with the turnout for the 'yard' reversed. I didn't reverse the spur turnout because I wanted to maintain the separation between the two. What do you guys think?
secondhandmodeler wrote: A nice member of the forum helped me picture a different way to plan the layout. It adds a small yard area to simulate the area of the town I cut out. I added a rough sketch of what I thought to do with the rest of the area. The part with the trestle hopefully will be bigger in the end. I have to decide if I want to build two to three lift gates. This would be the small version. We'll see how invasive I want to be in my new place.
A nice member of the forum helped me picture a different way to plan the layout. It adds a small yard area to simulate the area of the town I cut out. I added a rough sketch of what I thought to do with the rest of the area. The part with the trestle hopefully will be bigger in the end. I have to decide if I want to build two to three lift gates. This would be the small version. We'll see how invasive I want to be in my new place.
I like this one a lot better too.
Don't forget that there are some nice reliable curved turnouts on the market today, and Central Valley makes some curvable turnouts that shouldn't be too dificult to put down if you need something special.
However, by using two pair of curved turnouts, you could go with Rolleiman's plan.
I was actually thinking something more along this line. Using your dimensions of 48x120 (shown on your drawing) and not knowing the actual size of your planned station ---- drawn only to show flow, not an actual track plan.
Mine is bent around a little more but I think you'll get the idea. Bunch the turnouts at the sides as close as you can to get the maximum length on 2 tracks in front of the station. The crossover in the center provides a runaround so you don't have to go all the way either side to use it in switching your industries. There of course are several other ways of doing this but based on your plan, this is what I had in mind. In reality, a station designer probably wouldn't split the platforms with a crossover like that but, what the hey... That is, if you have a platform between the tracks. The 12 inch extensions on each side (bottom of drawing) are there simply to show much more possibility if you can spare the extra space for them.
It would be a bear to build as shown because the side turnout groups (on my quickie drawing) are really too close together. Some test fitting and fiddling would solve that however.
SpaceMouse wrote:Right, now do to the left what you did to the right.
How's this? I know that not all of the track is as smooth as it could be. I'm not too handy with this program.
Chip
Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.
How about this
Yep, Been at it for awhile. Keep looking for more info but the roadblocks to modeling anything in Detroit past are significant. Lots of rail traffic but doesn't seem to be much information regarding the Wabash RR in this area.
Your plan.. Better, but.. If you can spare the coin for a curved turnout, I would move the right one on the passing siding directly off of the right side curve. It'll give you a much nicer looking sweep into the station without costing you a lot of switching space. For ops sake, you could even add a crossover in the passing siding itself (near the center) at that point and won't have to worry much about getting your freight ops all bottled up. I don't actually see one on your overhead but that doesn't mean none ever existed or isn't actually there. Call it modeler's license.
That's quite the terminal! Looks like you've been researching for a while.
I tried something a little different. What do you think?