wjstix wrote: Really the legs shouldn't be right on the edge, but should be set in from the edge maybe 10-12" on a 4 x 8 layout. Before you get too far you might want to pick up Westcott's book on Model Railroad benchwork for some tips and ideas, it's been around a long time but is still the bible on benchwork!!
Really the legs shouldn't be right on the edge, but should be set in from the edge maybe 10-12" on a 4 x 8 layout. Before you get too far you might want to pick up Westcott's book on Model Railroad benchwork for some tips and ideas, it's been around a long time but is still the bible on benchwork!!
Stix is correct. There is a 1/5 (one-fifth) rule which I believe is mentioned in Linn's book. Legs or other supports should be placed 1/5 of the overall distance from the end. This allows a certain amount of canilever (counter balance) effect to overcome the sag effect of the center portion.
For 96 inches, 1/5 would be about 19 inches. So 19" - leg - 58" - leg - 19".
This rule is also used in general carpentry for things like the spacing of hinges on a two hinge door.
-John
I've been reading this book for the last few days(bathroom book) in preparation for my bench work construction project. It is quite good, some parts feels a bit old but it got some solid info in it. I can also recommend it.
Magnus
DeadheadGreg wrote: The new legs will be put at these new corners, right at the edge of the layout like they should have been in the first place.
The new legs will be put at these new corners, right at the edge of the layout like they should have been in the first place.
Legs...
In addition to the framing suggestions already mentioned...
Don't overlook constructing strong legs for each layout corner, and perhaps one leg every four feet apart underneath the table framework.
If you use, say, (2) 1x4s or 1x3s for each the leg, attached together length-wise for an "L" shape, you will find very them to be very sturdy. Use a wood screws to attach the (2) pieces of wood for extra strength instead of nails.
Also, either use, a number of wood screws, or bolts through each leg top + tabletop frame corner, and you will never have to worry about wobbling as you continue to add weight to the layout. Remember that sometimes you end up leaning on layout tabletops.
The cost of screws and/or bolts will add some cost, but the long-term sturdiness is well worth the effort.
Conemaugh Road & Traction circa 1956
If you had added a new boxed frame surrounding the existing interior frame w/ crossbracing etc, to try to solve the saging, supporting the 4x8 from the new outside corners will now cause the layout (corners) to be pulled upwards. The perimerter boxed frame needs continuous crossmembers to support the weight of the sheet.
If you block out the corners to tie the 2 perimeter frames this may stop any interior sag. An 8 ft span is really pushing the limits, especially if the layout weight is increased after scenery. Intermediate legs may be nec to stop this.
Modeling B&O- Chessie Bob K. www.ssmrc.org
okay, i definitely should have been more specific, lol. The whole thing is framed: its a 4x8 sheet of plywood (i forget how thick) that had a rectangular frame built underneith about a foot in from the edge that supported legs about 30" high. This was my "layout" table as a kid. Since we really didn't know any better then, thats how it was built. The table top ended up sagging (as expected) on all 4 corners. To rectify this, my dad and I built a frame of 1x4's around the outside edge to support it and to try and fix the sag, which it did. The new legs will be put at these new corners, right at the edge of the layout like they should have been in the first place. Thats why its so heavy, i'm assuming lol. Its covered with a 2" piece of foam.
Right now, the whole thing is resting on two sawhorses that are supporting the original inner frame (i guess its not really a frame... but oh well). Everything is ok, but its just got a little sag towards the back corner which I'm assuming is due to the floor that its on, because the table itself can't sag.
DeadheadGreg wrote:I have the legs cut, but don't yet have time to get some friends over to help me install them (the tabletop is pretty freakin' heavy).
I have the legs cut, but don't yet have time to get some friends over to help me install them (the tabletop is pretty freakin' heavy).
Just curious, what materials did you use when building the tabletop to make it so heavy? I'm building a small test layout now, the frame is made of 22x98mm screwed and glued together, with 6mm ply and 50mm foam on top:
My layout is a bit smaller than yours (105x185cm, approx. 3'5"x6'1"), but that shouldn't make that much of a difference. It doesn't weigh much, I have no problems lifting it with one arm, and I'm NOT a body builder. Handling it with ease on my own is another matter though...
It bends about 15mm when I lift it in one corner, but that's OK. I wanted a lightweight frame for my layout, and won't lay any tracks before the rest of the layout support is finished (I need to tilt it vertically for storage when not in use, something like this:)
RegardsSvein
DeadheadGreg wrote: Alright well, this is whats up: my 4x8 sheet with 2" foam is resting on 2 sawhorses right now. I have the legs cut, but don't yet have time to get some friends over to help me install them (the tabletop is pretty freakin' heavy). The back corner dips down, making it unlevel. ANyway, in the meantime I would like to get some cork laid to start making some progress. If I lay the cork and/or some track before I make the whole tabletop level, will this create problems once I install the legs?
Alright well, this is whats up: my 4x8 sheet with 2" foam is resting on 2 sawhorses right now. I have the legs cut, but don't yet have time to get some friends over to help me install them (the tabletop is pretty freakin' heavy). The back corner dips down, making it unlevel. ANyway, in the meantime I would like to get some cork laid to start making some progress. If I lay the cork and/or some track before I make the whole tabletop level, will this create problems once I install the legs?
Dear Greg
If I read your post correctly, you have a 4 foot wide by 8 feet long piece of 2 inch foam board sitting on two sawhorses with nothing else for support. If this is so then you need some kind of table or frame under the foam board to support it before going any farther. Without some kind of grid 0r table to support it the foam board can't even support itself much less a train.
You must support the foam board somehow other then just two sawhorses. If you are not handy with tools as some are not, just look around for a cheap or free table about the same size. New, used or even abused would fit your needs as it would only be used for support and will only be seen by you before you set the foam on it. If you can make a box frame to support the foam that would be better. Look into picking up an old "Atlas" book "Model Railroading for beginners". In this book it tells you what the basic frame should look like. If you can't find this book I can post a basic drawing of the frame if needed.
Johnnny_reb Once a word is spoken it can not be unspoken!
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Even 2' by 4' sheets of plywood tend to bend unless framed to prevent sagging -- and it gets worse over time. A simple box frame of 1x4 pine, with 2 interior frame pieces, should give the plywood the stability needed to prevent sagging. Not unlike how a box spring is supported on a bed frame.
Dave Nelson
As the others have already said. Do the bench work properly then move on. I didn't on my last attempt and it took a lot of hard work to get it good afterwards.
I'm about to begin working with the bench work soon and I expect it to take many, many months to complete.
I can only echo what the other guys have said here
You realy have to get your bench work sorted before you do anything else. If not, all your efforts and alot of cash will invertly lead to poor running trains, frustration, disalusionment and ultimately the trash can!
Its all to easy to cut corners building a model railroad, i know, i speak from experiance!
This time on my second layout, things are much differant, as i learnt alot from the first.
Take a step back whilst you still got the chance and sort the bench first
Good luck.
I would get the benchwork finished before you lay road bed or track. If it's dipping in one corner it may well have a slight bow in the middle. I heartily recommend an adequate foundation before you move on. In your case it probably means a grid foundation to which you attach the legs and the plwood top.
Enjoy
Paul
Jeff But it's a dry heat!