Hey guys... I finally figured out how to get images onto the forum. Heres one of the dimensions of my benchwork. HO scale.. If anyone has any track ideas? That would be awesome!! I want a logging RR. Using 3 truck shays and small 2-4-0 and 2-4-2. I'll go as small as 18 degree curves but 20-24 would be better. Plan on having one or two mills and lumber yard. At least one tressel would be a bonus. Any help would be great. Thanks guys.
Mike
Mike, back to the drawing board, or should I say photo suite. Need to make the PIC bigger. Resizes please. If you need help we will.
Cuda Ken
I hate Rust
Ken, I think I might need help... I thought I resized it, but it looks like the same size on the thread. How small does it look to you?? 'Cuz when I click on pic, it comes up bigger.
MPRR wrote: Hey guys... I finally figured out how to get images onto the forum. Heres one of the dimensions of my benchwork. HO scale.. If anyone has any track ideas? That would be awesome!! I want a logging RR. Using 3 truck shays and small 2-4-0 and 2-4-2. I'll go as small as 18 degree curves but 20-24 would be better. Plan on having one or two mills and lumber yard. At least one tressel would be a bonus. Any help would be great. Thanks guys.Mike
A little clarification is needed.....
Is your sketch representing the benchwork you already have or benchwork you're planning?
Are you wanting us to make you a track plan to fit said benchwork?
Is the diagonal line on the left representing a scenery divider?
What era/locale are you interested in?
Is it narrow or standard gauge?
Do you want elevation changes?
Is logging all you want or are you planning on other types of rolling stock?
Do you want point to point or continous running?
Railfan or operations?
provide a bit more detail if possible
-G-
BTW...it's "trestle"...
Johnnny_reb Once a word is spoken it can not be unspoken!
My Train Page My Photobucket Page My YouTube Channel
The benchwork is already built... I can access every inch of the layout. The grid in the picture are one foot squares.. that makes 17' x 10'. The long 17' section is the only part against a wall. The middle penninsula that is 2' x 4' is not built yet... Don't know if I need it yet.. And I'm not worried about 2 foot aisle clearance. Era will be anywhere from turn of century to 1920's. HO standard guage.... Mostly all logging with some rolling stock including box cars, flats, a crane car, caboose... A small town with a furniture store, resteraunt, residences, etc.. That is a scenery divider (backdrop) on left. 3% grades are ok..
And finally yes.. if anyone has any track plan, ideas... that would be great.. I have one hand drawn on paper that I'm workin on. And Im very slow with the CAD program... So it may be a while, if I even get it. Im open for any help with plans... Thanks Trestle it is.... I knew that ;-)
I would make the mountain with the logging ops on the left part on both sides of the divider. Then add the peninsula in the center with a divider down the center of that, making each side one foot wide.
The RR would run down from the mountain, snaking along the hills and valleys, over bridges and trestles on the way to the mill and shipping point, which I would put in the large area on the right. In that area you could have the mill, a small yard, engine service facilities, a car float operation for staging purposes, and a town.
On your down hill run from the woods, you could pass through a couple of small towns with a few industries that need supplies of all types. Maybe one of them could be a livestock area or ranch that ships beef. If you have room for a small processing plant or slaughtering operation near the mill area, the beef feeds the loggers and the hides make all sorts of leather items for the loggers and the logging industry. The surplus can be shipped off on the car float. The car float also can bring in things that are needed but not produced on the layout.
Elmer.
The above is my opinion, from an active and experienced Model Railroader in N scale and HO since 1961.
(Modeling Freelance, Eastern US, HO scale, in 1962, with NCE DCC for locomotive control and a stand alone LocoNet for block detection and signals.) http://waynes-trains.com/ at home, and N scale at the Club.
Hi, Mike and welcome. You'll get a lot of help here if you can be even more specific. BTW, I'm only about an hour north of you betwen Rice Lake and Spooner. The Omaha branch to Mondovi might be an option if you don't want mountain logging, it was more "northwoods white pine logging.I believe it started in Chip Falls. Good luck and keep the questions comin'!
Terry
Terry in NW Wisconsin
Queenbogey715 is my Youtube channel
Gandydancer19.... Thats exactly how I was thinking... There is plenty of room on the left penninsula for hills, grades, and all the logging I want.. As for the penninsula in the middle, is the wide enough to get a line down one side of divider and up the other.. I guess at 2 feet wide that could give me a 20" radius, with a little room to spare.. Or should I make each side of the divider two seperate scenes, with no connection to eachother except back up main part...
With a logging line and little to no main line... is it necessary to have staging... Most of my freight will come from in town on layout...... so do I really need a destination like a staging?
Thanks for all your input... You've been very helpful!!! Hopefully if I can get my plan figured out on the XtrkCad. I'll post updates.
Mike, the track sketch on the drawing is just rough and will need to be refined, but it gives you an idea of what I had in mind.
I was thinking that the grade would start down on the left main layout section as shown. The center divider of the peninsula can be one of two things: 1- a really tall steep mountain right in the center, like a ridge, that the tracks would snake around and then curve 180 degrees to the other side, or 2- just be a hardboard divider down the center that the track may have to go into a tunnel on its way to the other side. It could be a loop as I have shown on the drawing, which would make for a longer run. (If I was building it, I would go for the mountain with the track looping as shown.) The whole logging main is on a grade. The logging camp and most of the logging spurs should be level. The main town should also be level.
OK I get it, that the town supplies the loggers etc., but who supplies the town? That would be the main reason for some staging operations. Outside trains could come in from a few staging tracks as shown in red, do some switching, then return to staging. Also, with a car float, you have more options for more traffic and switching.
One of my previous layouts started as strictly logging, and you can model that nicely, but as far as actually operating it, there is not much more than taking logs down and bringing empties up. A few supplies now and then, but that's it.
But adding some amount of operations to supply the town(s), however limited, will improve overall operations greatly and give you variety on your layout. If you could add one small town with at least one siding on the logging line about equal distance between the main town and the logging camp, that would also add more interest. As a matter of fact, a passing siding at that location for the logging trains to pass each other would be prototypical as well.
gandydancer19 wrote:The center divider of the peninsula can be one of two things: 1- a really tall steep mountain right in the center, like a ridge, that the tracks would snake around and then curve 180 degrees to the other side, or 2- just be a hardboard divider down the center that the track may have to go into a tunnel on its way to the other side. It could be a loop as I have shown on the drawing, which would make for a longer run.
Texas Zepher wrote: gandydancer19 wrote:The center divider of the peninsula can be one of two things: 1- a really tall steep mountain right in the center, like a ridge, that the tracks would snake around and then curve 180 degrees to the other side, or 2- just be a hardboard divider down the center that the track may have to go into a tunnel on its way to the other side. It could be a loop as I have shown on the drawing, which would make for a longer run.Unfortunately this is HO scale. That 180 won't fit in 2 feet of width. Maybe some sort of switchback.
Yep. Your right. The only way to get it in is to remove a foot of the bench work on the right and add it to the peninsula, on the right side. That way the isle way is maintained at 2 foot. That will give him a tight 18R that will be very close to the edges. He could also take 18 inches off and move it over. That still leaves plenty of room for the main mill and town area.
gandydancer19 wrote: Texas Zepher wrote: gandydancer19 wrote:The center divider of the peninsula can be one of two things: 1- a really tall steep mountain right in the center, like a ridge, that the tracks would snake around and then curve 180 degrees to the other side, or 2- just be a hardboard divider down the center that the track may have to go into a tunnel on its way to the other side. It could be a loop as I have shown on the drawing, which would make for a longer run.Unfortunately this is HO scale. That 180 won't fit in 2 feet of width. Maybe some sort of switchback.Yep. Your right. The only way to get it in is to remove a foot of the bench work on the right and add it to the peninsula, on the right side. That way the isle way is maintained at 2 foot. That will give him a tight 18R that will be very close to the edges. He could also take 18 inches off and move it over. That still leaves plenty of room for the main mill and town area.
Mmmm - how about if he just drops the small central peninsula, and let the line from town up towards the logging area go through two switchbacks instead ? Maybe something roughly along these lines:
Switchbacks are arranged so you have the engine on the front heading up from town to the logging camps. Two of the engine camp sidings can be switched that way. The third one requires the use of the runaround on the leftmost peninsula.
There is room for a trestle across the "mainline" going off towards staging - that line can run along the river in a gap in the mountains, with the track to staging going into a tunnell beyond the trestle and disappearing under the mountain.
Btw - dropping that small center peninsula allows him to extend the town area in the lower right two feet to the left (still leaving a 4 feet opening to get into the pit) - he can also make the pit wider, avoiding the really narrow aisles he has drawn in now.
I have no idea what a town would look like. A double ended siding, for sure - so you can let engines run around trains.
A small turntable ? A 90 foot turntable would have a pit diameter of about 13", unless my math is totally off. That would fit engines of length up to about 12" - that ought to be enough for a shay or a 2-6-0 with a small tender ?
Anyways - just some ideas - it is not a given that they match what the original poster is looking for.
Smile, Stein
I like what you have here... Except the fact that the benchwork is already built... I built it over a year ago.. Then the wife and I moved and things have been on a stand still.. Now I've got it all put back together but I'm changing my plans from my original... That is why I have a bench with no track plan...
The center penninsula doesn't exist right now.. I just put it in to see my possibilities.. I think I just may leave it out and extend right penninsula a little like you have.. I would also like to try and avoid hidden staging under mountains... I want access.. So I'm thinking of having the staging come around back side of layout to the left penninsula, and then down. That way I can have my camps and whatnot above and the staging below.... I will leave lower level with staging open so I have access.. Thanks steinjr for your input..
I haven't been on the forums all that long, but have been a model RR'er for years. So far, the track plan ideas and plans that Stein comes up with are first rate. I have seen his replies to others asking for track plan help, and he always seems to come up with the right mix of things. And it looks like his advice for your space is excellent as well.
I also like your idea of putting your staging tracks below the logging areas on the left so you can have access. I would just curve the existing staging track to the left and add a curved turnout to give you two staging tracks under the mountain.
One of the things that I do when planning a layout track plan is look through all of the old mags and books I have for switching modules that will fit into a larger plan. So that may be something to look at for your mill and town area.
gandydancer19 wrote: I haven't been on the forums all that long, but have been a model RR'er for years. So far, the track plan ideas and plans that Stein comes up with are first rate. I have seen his replies to others asking for track plan help, and he always seems to come up with the right mix of things. And it looks like his advice for your space is excellent as well.
Thank you for your kind comments! Just as long as people are aware of the fact that the proof of the pudding is in the eating - whether it will fit (and look good) in real life - not just on the plan.
Btw - I was just reminded in a different thread that I probably ought to state every time what track I use in sketches - since turnouts from different manufactureres have slightly different geometries. Unless I say anything else, it is Peco Code 75 streamline turnouts.
gandydancer19 wrote: I also like your idea of putting your staging tracks below the logging areas on the left so you can have access. I would just curve the existing staging track to the left and add a curved turnout to give you two staging tracks under the mountain.
That makes a lot of sense.
Has anything been said yet about desired prototype location and era ? Are we talking Appalachians, Rocky Mountains or somewhere else altogether here ?
I did say before, I think in a different thread, what my intentions are.. Now that was well over a week ago... So I'll give an update...
1) Time period is 1900-1930's... Haven't exactly narrowed it down beyond that.
2) Location is upper New England.. Probably the New Hampshire, Vermont area. Moose River, or East Branch & Lincoln, or Woodstock. Maybe a little of each. :-)
3) Mostly all logging with shays and small steamers.. 2-6-0 & 2-8-0
4) Will allow 18"r on logging lines in mts. But 22"r most everywhere else. I think #4 turnouts would be ok.. Help me on this though.. Not sure when to use other sizes..
5) I do want river scenes and atleast 1 trestle.
6) Small facility to house engines.
7) Lumber Mill on river
8) Debating on scenic hills dominating and little town work, or balancing the two and having a couple small towns. Probably that.
So there ya have it guys. Now that the weekend is upon us, I should hopefully get a rivised plan for you all to pick apart. But thats why I put them here... Thanks again fellow forumers
Here we go... Updated Plan... The track in yellow is under logging line on left. The switchbacks are all up grade from town to camps as stein had showed... I'm intrigued by this.. I haven't finished the town/mill area.. Not sure yet on trackage for the area. The tracks leading to staging will be hidden behind small hill and trees.. And not submerge until near divider.. I haven't added structures yet either.. Time to check footprints of some to see what will fit... And whether I need to modify them..
Umm - where is this updated plan ? Was it intended to be in the post above this one ?
Stein
Sorry, I got into writing the intro, and forgot to paste it on... Here...
MPRR wrote:I did say before, I think in a different thread, what my intentions are.. Now that was well over a week ago... So I'll give an update...1) Time period is 1900-1930's... Haven't exactly narrowed it down beyond that.2) Location is upper New England.. Probably the New Hampshire, Vermont area. Moose River, or East Branch & Lincoln, or Woodstock. Maybe a little of each. :-)3) Mostly all logging with shays and small steamers.. 2-6-0 & 2-8-04) Will allow 18"r on logging lines in mts. But 22"r most everywhere else. I think #4 turnouts would be ok.. Help me on this though.. Not sure when to use other sizes..5) I do want river scenes and atleast 1 trestle. 6) Small facility to house engines. 7) Lumber Mill on river 8) Debating on scenic hills dominating and little town work, or balancing the two and having a couple small towns. Probably that.
I expect you would have found this web site long time ago, but just in case you haven't:
http://www.logginginlincoln.com/
Looks like Bill Gove is a retired forrester and logging railroad enthusiast that has written several books on logging railroads in this region. I see that amazon.com lists several of his books, among them "J.E. Henry's logging railroads: The history of the East Branch & Lincoln and the Zealand Valley railroads".
Edit - another nice link for prototype info: http://www.logginginlincoln.com/PublicationsForSale.html
I can see why you want river scenes - this area looks very beautiful. Covered car bridges and everything. Too bad we never got a chance to visit with in-laws while they lived in NH for a couple of years before moving back to the midwest.
Well, it looks good so far.
Are you planning on showing us your track plan for the town and Mill area, or aren't you far enough along on it yet? That is going to get interesting!!
One idea that I have right off is try and keep the mill tracks separate from the town tracks and the mainline RR coming in from staging, except at one place where they could tie together, such as a passing siding for the mainline RR. Don't try and mix them too much because they would have been different RR companies, although, sometimes they did have trackage rights over the others line. But I would tend to use one set of tracks for both only if there was a situation that made it hard to let each RR have its own tracks. I think that you could get more operating possibilities if you didn't have them connected where they are now.
As an example, I would bring in the main RR track from staging to the town by crossing the logging main as it goes around toward the mill. Then from the Mill tracks somewhere, take a track to the town and the main RR passing track.
When laying it out, you could start thinking the way it may have evolved in the real world. One company was there first. Then the scond RR company came in because it could turn a profit. Figuring out which was there first may not be the easiest thing to do, but it would be believable.
I think that makes total sense.. I'll have the logs come down from the forest on the logging line, and maybe from river/pond.. Cut and processed at mill and then loaded onto cars on main line bound for town and staging... Pulp, sawdust and cut lumber could be outbound cars.. What are some of the materials that could be inbound for mill???
The plan is looking good so far.
In the time frame you want to model, pulp and sawdust were burned and not shipped out. (They also didn't make or have plywood at that time.) The mill may also have made RR ties. Wood shingles may have also been made, but usually in a smaller specialized mill such as the WS tie and plank mill, which by the way, some townsman may have set up, or it may have originally been the first mill of the company until they expanded their operations.
When trying to pick things that would be shipped in, you also have to think of what could have been developed locally. Number one would be a food source. Crops could be grown and cattle raised in the surrounding area. However, would it have been enough to support the town and the loggers? Maybe there was enough to be shipped out as surplus. Something like corn or cattle. Clothes, regular tools for everyday use, special logging tools, things made of steel and iron etc. would all have been needed. You should also try and think of one or two things that may be special to the area that will be shipped out from the town besides lumber from the mill, (like corn and cattle) although there were towns entirely dependant on one large resource such as a lumber mill. But the more of a variety of products you have, the more frequent the outside trains would run in.
As far as the logging trains, the cut trees that came down would have been dumped in a log pond. From there, the mill would have lifted them out by a chain and dogs on a ramp up to the saw. Once the logs were cut they would have been sorted and stacked outside to dry. Some mills had a drying house to dry them out in. Then the stacks of cut lumber would have been loaded in boxcars to ship out. The number tracks used and their layout would reflect this type of operation.
Hope this helps.