As I have poured over many layouts here in the forums I had begun to notice a sort of division between two types of people who tend to gravitate towards two types of layouts.
On one hand I've seen those who build them for the joy and beauty of the layout as a whole, these types of layouts center more on the detail of the whole picture such as modeling the layout geared towards the visual details kind of like a painting where the train is the focal point and the layout is the color palette that supports the main focal point, it is complete in its picture and very enjoyable, it tends to have to eye of the artist built in, free flowing and full of detail, color and fun.
Now on the other side of the coin I've noticed that the other type of layout is more geared towards the mechanics of rail roading, these are the layouts that have what I call a purpose, they are the working limber mill, coal mining and freight yard type, they have the train doing something, like a working man on his job, the purpose is structured and the job of the train being used has having a beginning, middle and an end task.
These "working" layouts have a more rigid structure about them, they are just as beautifully detailed but there is an added element of being more mechanical in their existence, there is the action of physical labor built into them.
I've also noticed that a persons layout seems to reveal certain things about the personality of the builder, take for example the artist types, the layouts are very strong in the area of fun, more free flowing in design, and tend to be more open and have more creative license to them.
The working layout is highly detailed in the building blocks that tie all the working tasks together, the builders of these layouts tend to be more mechanically inclined, more analytical and heavy in the constructive arts.
I find that both types are great layouts, they are equally detailed but with an eye towards different end goals, both are enjoyable to see for their function or simple beauty and both are labors of love.
I'm not implying that either is more fun or beautiful than the other, just that although they both start with the same elements they can be worlds apart, like a finger print, like the builders themselves.
This got me to thinking of what I was doing with so much military rolling stock and military locos, I have a very "Industrial subject" to work with but had no purpose as I was planning my layout, I knew I was just drawn to the look of the military stock but I'm not a military buff or anything like that, just seeing my first army train drew me to them without rhyme or reason.
So what was I going to do with all this military stock running around what I want to portray as, the "artistic style" of villages, or a civilian town if you may?
I had no conscious plan to link the artistic surroundings with something like the cold purpose of a military train and base, then a connection started to emerge, I wanted to run the military trains through the civilian towns but without a function for the train what I was left with was basically a military train with no purpose or industry just passing through???
This did not sit well with me, my train should have a purpose I thought so I began to developed the idea of having the military train not be a war train per say but a military freight train.
My trains purpose is now coming to light and I'm going to have the train be loaded up at the army base for things that are to be used in military maneuvers within the "Civilian town" at no less than three training modules within the town at any given time.
My train will have a shipping manifest that dictates what type of training is being conducted in what part of town, the paper work will have an outline of the form or type of training going on at a certain staging area in town i.e.: Civilian search and recovery of gas victims, or a training module for new recruits in teaching how to organize a town evacuation and so on.
The manifest will document what equipment is needed , where it is to be delivered and how it is dispersed to the troops (i.e. waiting freight trucks), there will also be an element of the towns folks lending a hand with such things as taking part in certain maneuvers by being "players" in the army's training scenarios and so on.
Some of the situations will not be training but real events such as a chemical truck spill and the army coming in to help the town and so on, I feel like I could developed endless working scenarios incorporating both military and civilian personnel.
I guess what has been developing from my down time while I rebuild my destroyed layout is a link between the artistic beauty of the town and the rigid mechanical function of the military train and base.
So I've guessed I've managed to iron out an "Industry" if you will.
I think I've found a working blend of both the free lance fun of a pretty layout with the working train in mind.
I even ordered a troop of HO scale zombies for when I feel really crazy and want to have the military save the town from the undead....LOL!
I've been busy building crates (a lot of them) to hold certain vehicles and equipment that can be loaded onto my many flat beds and open gondolas, shipped into town , unloaded and unpacked, equipment set up for the maneuvers and when the maneuver is completed the whole process is repeated in reverse until the trains are put to bed.
I have a total of three long army freight trains that will operate at different times, while one is being unloaded one is being loaded and one is on its way.
I'm also using my computer to draw up the paper work needed to pull off each maneuver from start to finish.
The nice thing about it is that my layout can be used by a few people at the same time, the train and shipping aspect and the maneuver aspect at the same time to make for some interesting confusion on my layout, the grand kids can be playing army with orders in hand as I'm delivering the goods to them to carry out their mission or training.
there, now I feel much better about what I want my trains to be doing and now that I have to start my layout over from scratch I can build it with a purpose in mind.
Now when I visit one of your layouts and view the pics of what you do on yours it will give me an insight into what type of personality you have.....so, beware of what your layout tells others about you....LOL!
Sorry this is so long but as you can probably tell I had an epiphany and wanted to share it.
happy Rails.
Jess Red Horse of the Tribe with a purpose...LOl!
Red Horse wrote: I even ordered a troop of HO scale zombies for when I feel really crazy and want to have the military save the town from the undead....LOL!
Where did you find them?
Magnus
Paraphrasing your comments into running layouts and operating layouts.
Both can be brought to the same level of artistic detail.
I always advise people to design an "operating" layout because by includings some continuous running connections or return loops you can easily turn an operating layout into a running layout. If you don't build the operating infrastructure into the layout, you can't turn a running layout into an operating layout.
If you have a switch to an industry you have the choice of working the industry or just running by it. If you don't put a switch into the industry, then you can only run by it.
Dave H.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
You seem to have a problem defining "functioning purpose." The main problem is that if you ask a dozen model railroaders to define that term in view of their layout, you'll likely get a dozen different answers. The only definition that comes close to most model railroad layouts is that it's to entertain the modeller. Remember, this is a hobby (well, to most of us anyway) and entertainment, escape, and simply a pleasurable way to pass time is the purpose of any hobby. Even the individual modeller will have this definition change over time. Early on it may be "watching trains run," later "watching trains run on schedule," or "watching trains run with a purpose." The list can easily go on.
You'll also find that some focus on a particular facet of model railroading, and that statement can start a whole 'nuther discussion.
Hi!
Some layouts are built just to showcase trains and/or to recreate visions of our youth - as we remember it (not necessarily as it was). To me, a very positive aspect of the hobby is that we can build the layout as we want, and not as a structured kit. And of course it can range from an exact replica of a given place and time, to a fantasyland limited only by our imagination.
There are few (if any) hobbies that get better than that!
Mobilman44
ENJOY !
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
I can see your point; in a way the layout I'm in the early stages of building now is kind of an example maybe of what you're talking about. It's a two-deck layout, with the two decks not connected to each other. The upper one (the one I'm working on now) is a point-to-point (or staging-to-point I guess) single track mainline iron ore line. The main purpose of the upper level will be operating a large ore dock yard, moving cars to and from the ore dock, making up empty ore trains and sending them to staging, then breaking down loaded trains that arrive from staging. It will basically be a 12"-16" wide shelf layout, but will widen out near the ore dock yard to allow for an engine servicing area and roundhouse/turntable.
The lower level will be more geared towards my interest in mainline passenger trains and long freights (reefer expresses, stock trains, piggyback trains etc.) and will be a fairly long dogbone double-track continuous run layout. One end will have a staging yard and a fairly urban area with some industries, but much of the rest will just be the mainline running thru nice scenery. There will be enough wayfreight traffic to run a decent length local freight, but there will be a lot of "just running" with long freights and passenger trains too.
Oh and I'm thinking of building a separate 4x8 layout now, that later will be incorporated as a logging branch, using my older/smaller equipment (Spectrum Climax, 36' and 40' freight cars etc.)
ARTHILL wrote:My layout has a purpose - It amuses me.
Finally someone came up with the right answer! ALL layouts have a functioning purpose. It is up to the individual to identify the function or purpose of his or her layout and then to blatantly ignore those that would critisize said layout because it does not meet their definition of what a layout should be. I model because I enjoy doing it. The function of my layout is entertainment and relaxation. I would say that the function of the prototype modeling rivet counters layout is ultimately the same or similar but perhaps for different reasons.
BlueHillsCPR wrote: ARTHILL wrote:My layout has a purpose - It amuses me.
Not all layouts have to have a functional purpose.
Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running BearSpace Mouse for president!15 year veteran fire fighterCollector of Apple //e'sRunning Bear EnterprisesHistory Channel Club life member.beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam
jeffrey-wimberly wrote: BlueHillsCPR wrote: ARTHILL wrote:My layout has a purpose - It amuses me.Not all layouts have to have a functional purpose.
Actually, the real question isn't about the layout. It's about the builder. There is a spectrum of layout users, ranging from the person who simply wants to see trains rolling through some believable scenery - the pure railfan - to the person who demands that his museum-quality rolling stock has to run on the exact schedule of the (fillintheblank) railroad, past model buildings that are historically accurate and model trees placed exactly where the full-size equivalents show up in old photographs. (If you recognize Spacemouse's N-scale efforts and Jack Burgess's work, you got it in one.)
Each individual has to find the most comfortable place on that spectrum, and design and build accordingly. No one else can make that decision, although the ideas of others can help.
Where do I fall on that spectrum? That's for me to know and you to wonder - although my signature might give you a clue.
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - TTTO, 24/30)
I also agree with that it is not necessarily the purpose of the layout but the purpose the builder has within that brings him to build the layout. I also think that there have been good points on trying to look ahead on how your purpose may evolve over time. Starting out with this hobby I wanted trains to run across a freelanced layout. I have enjoyed this process and with that it has given me many avenues to learn different aspects of the hobby. Now that I look back, it feels more like a test layout as I wished i would have incorporated a little more of an operational layout as the design process bloomed. All in all my layout gives me what I wish for ... enjoyment, memories, learning and pride. So I feel mine and myself have found that purpose.
I agree fully; the purpose of a layout is to provide enjoyment to its builder as its builer defines enjoyment.
The trouble is, everything changes over time, and that includes what we find appealing and fun. Once we master something, we usually want to move on. This is the problem with layouts that are very simple and not fully developed or thought-out after a while (not in every instance, no...but perhaps so often that it bears mentioning). Once the simple layout is mastered, where does its master go from there? Usually it is on to another layout with more complexity. So, this is an interative process, but all of them have to have a first step. It is often best to make the first step easy enough that its creator actually completes it. Too much involvement up front stymies some folks and their projects never get off the paper pad or the computer screen.
I think that, as a general rule, layouts that provide some nice vistas and running where the user can just enjoy that much are going to be successful..as long as they also provide temporary relief with some variety of function. There should be some notional "work" that the trains have to do, whether switching in a small yard, backing cars into an industrial track, getting some items, or themselves, to a repair facility....and so on.
A yard provides a huge amount of interest in 30 minutes just making up a train. You get called for dinner and a movie, so next evening your 30 minutes is taking the train you made up the previous evening around for a spin while you sip your after dinner tea.
A game of baseball where the pitcher threw nothing but fastballs would be a bit dull after a while. Gotta change 'em up once in a while.
I hope that makes sense.
-Crandell
Raised on the Erie Lackawanna Mainline- Supt. of the Black River Transfer & Terminal R.R.
Hi guys
Be it train set, operating railway or a propper model railway WETI.
Its prime function is to entertain its owner, if it fails to do that then its not much use.
There are so many divisions and sub divisions of what type a model railway is, that its better to just look at the all important prime function which is to entertain the owner.
regards John Busby
Red Horse,
You are wayyyyyyy overthinking this. Just build a layout. Run trains and see where it takes you. You'll learn along the way what you like and what you don't like. There is no "purpose" other than to entertain you. This is a hobby.
-G-
To answer your question--every model railroad does have to have a purpose if it is any good. There are a lot of railroads without purpose--unless that purpose is just to throw things together and not have to think about it.
The purpose of your model railroad is to fulfill your vision of what it is you want to build and enjoy. If you are just starting out, part of that vision might be to design a railroad that will grow with you. You might find that during your growth there might be some aspect of model railroading that you like, but you haven't considered before.
If you are building to your vision, you have more chance that the new aspect has already been accounted for or is easily incorporated.
The purpose is to keep it true.
Chip
Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.
Jess, you really need to find a copy of this book,
http://www.amazon.com/Playing-Trains-Passion-Beyond-Scale/dp/0812971264/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1208361875&sr=8-1
Sam Posey ponders the same issue, are you a 'scenery guy' or an 'operations guy' good reading too.
A layouts sole function is to allow model trains to be run, period.
How you chose to run them is where it get sticky, and all the definitions get applied.
Have fun with your trains
As others have stated, the purpose of the layout is to entertain--it is what people find entertaining that varies. Some folks want a moving diorama, others want a complex game and are more interested in the game than the "playing pieces," and most of us fall somewhere in between.
One of the great flexibilities of model railroading is that you can have both or neither. For the person just starting out, you can have an unrealistic model railroad with little thought to operation very quickly--just plop that loop of snap-track on the tabletop and start operations on the Plywood Pacific! The problem is that the game gets old quickly. On the other extreme, there's no reason why a highly detailed and aesthetically beautiful layout can't have a realistic and complex operating scheme. The problem there is that few of us have the time, money and skill to execute such a layout. So most of us find a compromise that matches our time, money and skill constraints.
Your layout idea is certainly a practical one: military facilities are very dependent on rail connections to carry a lot of the big, heavy things that are needed at such facilities. Obvious ideas include modeling a wartime period, World War II being an obvious choice but every war since the Civil War made heavy use of domestic railroads. If you're thinking zombies are a good idea, a George Romero "Night of the Living Dead" feel could be provided with a sixties/Vietnam War era layout.
I think the OP was talking about this product, a "Bag O' Zombies" for the "Zombies!!!" wargame. It's not a bad idea at all, if you're into having zombies trundling about your layout, but you could easily do so with a pack of cheap minis: paint them in grayish colors with the odd bloodstain, chop a couple up for leftovers, and it's Z-Day!
But if you want zombie minis:
http://www.rpgshop.com/product_info.php?products_id=31243
Agree with Art and Blue Hills and Jeffery. I also find running my layout relaxes me and working on it tends to clear the mind.Just running trains IS a functional purpose!
Tilden
Capt. Grimek wrote: Is this commonly done? Two layers but non connected via grades or helixes? (Essentially two completely separate layouts?)
It's not exactly common, but it has been done successfully. I've designed a couple of layouts for folks with unconnected decks and I have written about designs like this a few times in the Layout Design SIG's Layout Design Journal and most recently in Kalmbach's Model Railroad Planning 2008.The design for the HOn3 Oahu Railway in MRP 2008 included three unconnected decks. One or more could be built and each deck could be a functional layout on its own, linked conceptually by staging and operations but with no physical connection. In the Oahu Railway design, one deck was heavily operations-oriented with a significant yard and large industries. Another deck was primarily scenic and intended for "model railfanning" with a continuous-running connection. And a third deck was a combination of the two desires. Each of these decks could be built with a different era in mind.My own slowly-building layout has a multiple locations on different shelves and decks that will not be physically connected, but will be linked by the operations concept. In my case, all the different shelves and decks relate to the same geographic area and time frame ... but of course, each separate deck could be a different locale, era, and real-life or freelance railroad, if desired. I've even done multi-deck designs with different scales/gauges on the different decks.
To answer the question posed in the title of this thread, I do think every layout should have a purpose (one could call it a theme), but modeling operations is only one of multiple possible purposes or themes. Some folks want a place to showcase models, some folks like model railfanning, etc. Dave Husman gave what's probably the best advice: for a first layout, try to include some "just running" and some "operations" elements. That way, you'll have a chance to try different things and learn what you like best.
ByronModel RR Blog
Layout Design GalleryLayout Design Special Interest Group
Capt. Grimek wrote:Thanks Byron. Would the January 1985 SIG issue be most representative?
The magazine has changed a lot in the last 20+ years, so January, 1985 would not be my suggestion for seeing what the group and the magazine are about today, although there is some information on multi-deck layouts in that issue. More recent issues are probably a better choice for seeing what the LDSIG is like today. LDJ-35, -36, or -37 would be better choices for that.
By reading the descriptions on this page for the Layout Design Journal and this page for the Layout Design News, you can get an idea of the topics covered in each issue. One standout issue for anyone interested in yard design is LDJ-7, June 1992.
If there are particular layout design concepts in which you are interested, I might be able to suggest issues that address those most directly. Membership in the LDSIG is $15 for four issues (in the US, $20 outside the US) and may be the best bargain in model railroadng, in my not-at-all-unbiased opinion.
If you are specifically asking about the multiple unconnected decks idea, I'd suggest LDJ-28, Spring 2003, where I discussed the idea in a bit of detail; or LDJ-35, December 2006, where I described a layout design based on the idea.
It's true that the purpose of a layout is to entertain and/or occupy the owner. That being said, it's my opinion that the better layouts go beyond that and also challenge the owner.
While a loop of EZ track on the ping-pong table might satisfy some, I don't think there are many of us who would gladly stop there. I think there are really three paradigms, the two you mention (artistic and operations) and the third would be the scale model builder. There are plenty of guys who will fuss over the safety chains and marker lights on their hand crafted caboose, and are just as content running it on the ping pong table or just displaying it on the shelf.
The key thing is that these three approaches rarely exist exclusively of each other. The best layouts, and the layouts that I believe most of us strive for, contain elements of all three.
When I designed my layout, I had a specific time and place in mind, as well as specific industries and operations that I wanted to simulate. But I also knew going in that there are times when I just want to turn a train loose to run around through the scenery. My track plan evolved from studying maps, reading about the operations of the prototype, and visiting the areas I hoped to represent. I knew I would have to sacrifice some things to the Selective Compression Gods, but at the end of the day, I wanted a layout that a visitor could look at and know where they are.
While building the layout and developing the scenery has been fun, designing the operations aspect has been the most challenging. But by working through those challenges, I have developed a railroad with a purpose, which to me contributes greatly to its entertainment value, as well as to its potential for longevity. It also provides for the opportunity to have other operations-oriented modelers visit and run trains with me. In my view, a big roundy roundy layout doesn't offer that possibility.
It is very much an evolutionary process. Like everyone else, I started with a trainset loop. As time went by and experiences broadened, I began asking myself the same kinds of questions you're now asking. As I began to understand what I wanted to get out of my ultimate layout, I became attracted to several prototype railroads. Through research and field visits, I narrowed it down to what I have built now. For me, it's the best of all the worlds I'd discovered over 30 years in the hobby.
Lee
Route of the Alpha Jets www.wmrywesternlines.net
The purpose of the layout is, as had been said, to meet your objectives.
If you like running trains without really thinking about how they should operate or look, then that's still a purpose. I've been known to do that myself from time to time.
However, I often argue that for a layout to be a credible representation of a railroad (real or imagined), it needs to convey a sense of purpose. That purpose doesn't always have to be blunt and obvious like a mining or logging railroad. However, some sense that the trains are going somewhere and are not just racing in circles is necessary to give that sense of purpose.
I have a small double-track loop layout. Not very realistic, is it? Well, I try to instill a sense of purpose in the way I operate trains. Locals are no-brainers; shifting cars about the sidings in town has a self-evident purpose.
But out on the main, for example, I run empty hoppers one way and loads the other way, always, to give a sense of which way are the factories and which way are the mines. In that sense, I can imply one of the major purposes of the PRR (moving coal from central Pennsylvania to the manufacturing centers of the East):
It's not much, but it's an example of how one can turn even the most basic layout (with no prior thought given to operations - something I somewhat regret) into an illusion of a railroad with a purpose.
Modeling the Rio Grande Southern First District circa 1938-1946 in HOn3.
This is why the phrase "different strokes for different folks" applies so well to model railroading. It can be anything you want it. It can be operational or simply a platform for running trains through scenery. It can be based on prototype or be completely freelanced. It can be realistic or a fantasy. I know of nothing in this hobby that appeals to everybody unless of course it is trains. That is probably the only common denominator.
One of the first track planning books I ever read was from the Railroads You Can Model series. One of the plans for for Tehacapi Loop. Besides the loop, the only visible part of the layout was the approaches to the loop. Trains would enter the visible mainline from the staging yard, pass through the approaches and the loop and disappear into the other staging yard. It had no industries to switch but I believe it had one or two passing sidings. Did it have a purpose? Yes. It's purpose was to allow a model to run a series of trains over the rugged terrain and through the loop which provided a great view of the equipment being run. It was a plan intended as a display for the equipment the modeler might have accumulated. I believe at the time both SP and SF shared this track so equipment from two different roads would be appropriate there.