jaybeckham wrote:I have installed on my layout which is under construction, red rope lights as well as clear, blue, and amber rope and regular bulbs.I plan to use the red to produce the sunset glow. My blues will be on all the time. The others will dim up and dim down to create the 24 hours cycle.I do tried the Rail-Lynx site for information.Previously I had decided to use small theater dimmers that respond to 12 volt in an analog manner. The 12 volts was to come from Bruce Chubb's CMRI system as well as the fast clock. My computer can produce the fast clock. It can also send a digital value to a digital to analog converter. The resulting output is analog and is 12 volts and that can drive the theater dimmers. I don't recall the prices of the dimmers but certainly less than the cheapest of brass engines. Jay Beckham...Berkeley Springs, WV...O Scale....www.South-Shore-Line.com
I have installed on my layout which is under construction, red rope lights as well as clear, blue, and amber rope and regular bulbs.
I plan to use the red to produce the sunset glow. My blues will be on all the time. The others will dim up and dim down to create the 24 hours cycle.
I do tried the Rail-Lynx site for information.
Previously I had decided to use small theater dimmers that respond to 12 volt in an analog manner. The 12 volts was to come from Bruce Chubb's CMRI system as well as the fast clock. My computer can produce the fast clock. It can also send a digital value to a digital to analog converter. The resulting output is analog and is 12 volts and that can drive the theater dimmers. I don't recall the prices of the dimmers but certainly less than the cheapest of brass engines.
Jay Beckham...Berkeley Springs, WV...O Scale....www.South-Shore-Line.com
I was thinking about theatrical light dimmers slaved to a 0-10VDC ouput from C/MRI (I do believe they are 0-10V rather than 12V). However I changed my lighting type from incandescent to fluorescent so these won't help me.
Before buying theatrical dimmer packs you should go see them in operation. Actually, I mean LISTEN to them in operation. Theatrical dimmers are usually stuck away in a rack cabinet and if they're kind of noisy (accoustically) it's not an issue. But especially for the higher wattage units you can expect they may have rather powerful fans.
IIRC the Rail-Lynx product for this Time-Lynx has a set of incandescent dimmer modules so they should work ok. Being designed for model railroads I'd expect them to be quieter but then I've not actually seen or heard them. If you have a lot of lights you may find Time-Lynx with dimmer packs are not hefty enough for you. IIRC the dimmer packs could control 600W each and you could have three dimmer packs.
If you have fluorescent lighting you'll need something much more exotic to control them. CFL tubes will need 4 pin sockets with special ballasts (read $$$$$$). Dual 4' 32T8 tube fixtures can accept a ballast to dim both tubes at once. There's a fairly new technology for fluorescent lighting control called DALI that allows a control bus to be strung between up to 64 light fixtures - sort of like a computer USB bus - and each light fixture is then independently controllable. When I checked on DALI ballasts a year ago they were about $80 each in quantity 25 for 1% dimming capability. If you want to simulate real darkness you'll need the 1% dimming - 5% is too brite for the night (although 5% ballasts are a LOT cheaper). There are DALI controllers that plug into your computer using USB. You're probably on your own for software to control the lights from a fast clock.
Looks to me like if you have only a few incandescents the best bet is probably time-lynx (assming they still make the lighting controllers) Try emailing info@rail-lynx.com
Good luck,
Charlie Comstock
Courage8 wrote:Hey, this arrangement looks like it definitely has possibilities! Years ago I attempted to build an automated layout lighting system using the control switch from an electric dishwasher - it was a mechanical timer that periodically opened and closed a number of different contacts, but there was no smooth way to dim; it could only click banks of small lights on and then off. This arrangement using a geared timer motor and a sliding rheostat (or banks of them) looks like it could work, but a seperate system might be needed to keep the light-to-dark and dark-to-light transition periods from being too long.
Probably the easiest way to vary the light and dark periods may be a cam, instead of a wheel, to operate the dimmer.
Rotor
Jake: How often does the train go by? Elwood: So often you won't even notice ...
Rotorranch wrote: gandydancer19 wrote: OK, how about a way using the KISS principal? Take a standard light dimmer and glue a big gear on the knob. Turn the gear with a worm driven by a DC motor. Like a turntable set-up. I'm sure it could be done, just have to work out the mechanical details. The DC motor could be run by a DCC decoder perhaps. Then if your DCC system was connected to a computer you may be able to integrate it all to work together.I was thinking along a similar line, but using a slide type dimmer, and a clockwork type motor, with a linkage connecting them. I hope the pic makes sense.Rotor
gandydancer19 wrote: OK, how about a way using the KISS principal? Take a standard light dimmer and glue a big gear on the knob. Turn the gear with a worm driven by a DC motor. Like a turntable set-up. I'm sure it could be done, just have to work out the mechanical details. The DC motor could be run by a DCC decoder perhaps. Then if your DCC system was connected to a computer you may be able to integrate it all to work together.
OK, how about a way using the KISS principal? Take a standard light dimmer and glue a big gear on the knob. Turn the gear with a worm driven by a DC motor. Like a turntable set-up. I'm sure it could be done, just have to work out the mechanical details. The DC motor could be run by a DCC decoder perhaps. Then if your DCC system was connected to a computer you may be able to integrate it all to work together.
I was thinking along a similar line, but using a slide type dimmer, and a clockwork type motor, with a linkage connecting them.
I hope the pic makes sense.
Yes it has been done before, John Allan did it with rotory dimmer swithes and chains.
Johnnny_reb Once a word is spoken it can not be unspoken!
My Train Page My Photobucket Page My YouTube Channel
Just posted a similar thread on 'Electronics and DCC' forum for those who may be interested.
Cheers
Barry
The rotary dimmer has a probelm where you would reach a point where the dimmer would reach full open and would have to be reversed to then close again. Then the same problem would occur when fully closed.
The slider is better because it's reciprocating... same as an engine.
As a purely mechanical device, a number of large gears could be placed together running a number of dimmer switches.
Good one.
Elmer.
The above is my opinion, from an active and experienced Model Railroader in N scale and HO since 1961.
(Modeling Freelance, Eastern US, HO scale, in 1962, with NCE DCC for locomotive control and a stand alone LocoNet for block detection and signals.) http://waynes-trains.com/ at home, and N scale at the Club.
bsteel4065 wrote:I already know how to put up lights and hide them. I know how to put different lights on different circuits.
I already know how to put up lights and hide them. I know how to put different lights on different circuits.
I had never seen lighting done quite like that with the striking effect of the red dawn/dusk light coming up the backdrop from behind the trees like that. So, for me, it was very interesting.
Perhaps a topic with a title specific to your need in the electronics forum would help.
Anyway, I did a quick search and found there was a Yahoo user's group for the rail-lynx.. perhaps they can help you..
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rail-lynx/
Good luck!
Chris
Hi Fred.... Hi Kevin
Fred
Yes, MRR does seem to skim over things nowadays. I thought it was because I have been a subscriber for a long time and so got into the, 'yep, know that.... that's a repeat...' view when reading. I recently looked backover past copies of over 12 years or so back and they have twice the content and full of pictures and details. Much less so today and the article I am quoting is the first truly 'half complete' article I've seen.
Anyway........... yes, I take your point about synchronising movement, tasks and operation with available light. And yes, the system should be flexible enough not to interfere with practical movement and enjoyment. I think sun up and sundown with darkness and light in between is a great thing to have on a layout and can enhance reality of operation.
In fact, I think with having a choice of speed of clock at any time together with 'trigger points' caused by completion of tasks (almost like 'clocking out') the system would bring even more enjoyment to operating and running trains.
Kevin
Yes, I wavered whether to post this on Layouts or Electronics. And I must admit, I posted here as I always get great and practical responses and the Electronics forum is somewhat new. Now I think we should open it up and see if we get a few ideas on a practical solution.
Thank you guys as always
bsteel4065 wrote:As I say I've been looking for ages, it's prbably easier to design one and market it myself!CheersBarry
Indeed, it may well be easier to design and build a controller oneself. This may be a thread that should have been posted in the electronics forum. I'm thinking a combination of power transistors, IC timer chips, and various other electronic components would acheive the desired result. I would think the Electronic Engineers who frequent the forum could cook something up. Something that simulates sunrise/set would be useful to many modelers I imagine.
bsteel4065 wrote: I'm in the process of building my new layout (HO, PRR / NYC double decker 1954) and one of the things I have had on my list for this layout right from the design stage is a fast clock 24 hour daylight / nightime light switching that would enable sunrise, sunset, getting light, getting dark with lights in buildings and streets, signs, etc coming on and going off at the appropriate times. So, the banner on the front of the May MRR for the article by Dan Zugelter entitled, 'Add 24 hour layout lighting', drew me in. (Page 50) <snip>Barry
I'm in the process of building my new layout (HO, PRR / NYC double decker 1954) and one of the things I have had on my list for this layout right from the design stage is a fast clock 24 hour daylight / nightime light switching that would enable sunrise, sunset, getting light, getting dark with lights in buildings and streets, signs, etc coming on and going off at the appropriate times.
So, the banner on the front of the May MRR for the article by Dan Zugelter entitled, 'Add 24 hour layout lighting', drew me in. (Page 50) <snip>
I don't have the May MR yet, so I can't comment on that. Unfortunately, I see a number of articles these days that are not as comprehensive as one would desire. In the "bad old days", MR would typically run a multi-part series that really got in depth on how to use some of these "experimental" technologies. And I say experimental because there are lots of opinions on lighting but very few established guidelines or best practices to follow. Very few have actually achieved the much-talked about goal of controlled variable or multiple lighting schemes.
I see basing lighting control on the layout clock as having many positive aspects, and it sounds like a great idea in theory. Programming the light levels will not be simple, particularly if the layout is fairly large - which it generally must be to support fast clock operations. You will almost need a programmable light board. And there's the catch I see - how well does your timetable work in actual operations? Can you usually and consistently adhere to your layout's timetable? Synchronizing the lighting to the layout clock may make it automatic, but it does little good if you can't keep your train operations in synch as well.
Theaters and churches use real people on the light boards just because they can't keep perfectly on the clock. Sequential events with cues are used instead of a timetable for operation of both sound and light systems. And I submit most model railroad operations are more sequence-driven than they are by timetable. When train A arrives at siding 1, then train B can be cleared into block B48, rather than train B will be cleared into block B48 at 0816 hours. It doesn't really matter what the clock says, the event sequence governs.
Developing a timetable that can be met consistently enough for it to govern operations is quite a feat, especially if there is some variability and randomness to the switching requirements. Either you build in lots of slack time, or use all through movements which are more consistent, especially with the very small distances between towns on our layouts. So if lighting is tied to the clock, delays are going to push operations into later times of day. Pretty realistic, but is it feasible to switch in the dark on your layout?
These are just my thoughts as I have been planning my "ultimate" layout. Realizing I will normally operate alone, or with at most with 1-2 others, sequential operations is probably more suited for my situation. In this case, multiple fixed lighting levels (perhaps 4-5 lighting schemes) achieved through a series of switches rather than variable would be much simpler to set up and operate. When train A has completed its run, it's time to switch to sunset lighting.
Your plan sounds more spectacular, but who is going to enjoy the magnificent effects? The road engineer of a through train certainly will. But probably not the poor yard master who is behind on getting trains out, and now has to squint in the darkness to identify cars.
just some thoughts as I go through the planning for my layout
Fred W
Hi Ryan
I've been looking for ages for something that would run a fast clock and trigger current to various devices.
It's rather like a series of those mechanical timer controlers that can be plugged into the mains. All you do is push in or leave out the tags and as the timer turns, so the device is turned on or off. The problem is attaching a slow dimmer device that will come on and then go off.
As I say I've been looking for ages, it's prbably easier to design one and market it myself!
Hey Barry,
I have not looked into any other systems or electrical mechanisims at this point. It may come down to me putting together some form of automatic dimmer switch similar to the automatic lighting switch that I use when I string outside Christmas lights during the holiday season. When the sun goes down the autosensor flips the internal switch and all the lights on the circuit come on. The other part of the equation is to figure out how to get them to burn a slow glow to simulate a fast clock sunrise or sunset, or something that would automatically turn a rheostat to slowly bring up the orange or red lights after the room lighting is turned down.
Regards,
Ryan
Ryan BoudreauxThe Piedmont Division Modeling The Southern Railway, Norfolk & Western & Norfolk Southern in HO during the merger eraCajun Chef Ryan
Hi SilverSpike
Woah, that doesn't sound too good. I've just e-mailed them from their website agin using their info address..... we'll see.
Apart from Time-Lynx have you considered any other device that may do what we want?
I have not read that article yet, just got the mag a few days ago. I too am looking forward to reading it, but if there is no new information then I might be disappointed too.
I sent an email to the Rail Lynx folks many months ago with an inquiry very similar to yours and have NOT gotten any response. I asked if the Time-Lynx system could be operated independent of the Rail-Lynx system. If so, then I would consider purchasing the system. But, still, to no avail, my Inbox is still empty....
So, the banner on the front of the May MRR for the article by Dan Zugelter entitled, 'Add 24 hour layout lighting', drew me in. (Page 50)
Severe disappointment!
I already know how to put up lights and hide them. I know how to put different lights on different circuits. The part I REALLY wanted to know about, 'layout lighting control', was one short paragraph that described absolutely nothing about how the lighting effects were actually controlled. Apart from the use of Time-Lynx manufactured by Rail-Lynx.
Yes, I went to www.rail-lynx.com but the info on Time-Lynx says very little and after I filled out the enquiry form .... the page failed.
OK, here's the question(s) ....... finally! Has anyone used Time-Lynx?
It's a controllable fast clock with a multiple connection block, BUT....
What are the limitations? How many light circuits can you connect? How do you control the fading up and down of of lights? How do you control the on - off times of each circuit? And anything else I haven't asked?
Would be good to know....
Cheer