New(er) N scale trackplan

[Frisco-kid]

 

 

 

REVISED BASED ON FEEDBACK - APOLOGIES FOR THE HORRID EDITING VIA MS PAINT

[SpaceMouse]

Hi and welcome,

Can I ask what you are intending with this layout?

A good start might be to read my Beginner's Guide clickable from my signature. It takes about 5 minutes and might help you get so cohesion to your design.

[Frisco-kid]

Hey Chip,

I'm a roundy-rounder at heart; wanted to have the option of some interesting operations-for-one if the mood strikes. I opted for a switchback incline to a logging scene.

I enlisted the track planning help of an LDGIG member; it's a work-in-progress. The staging on either side, the car float interchange (north of the yard), the double-ended yard and the "bump" on the eastern lobe are elements of that effort I'm keen on. Neither the 3D view nor the line drawing are very detailed at present.

You feel it lacks "cohesion"; could you elaborate?

Rick

[loathar]

Pretty ambitious. My only input would be a couple of your passing sidings seem too short to be of much use.

[SpaceMouse]

I guess what I was looking for was the purpose of your railroad. If it doesn't have a purpose, the default then becomes toylike. You mention logging. Is the purpose of your railroad to serve the logging industry? 

What does it do?

[Frisco-kid]

My goal is a fun layout with continuous running, decent ops potential should I choose and some interesting scenic features.

 I don't envision it as single-purpose; more like a short-line serving various industries.

[Lateral-G]

My goal is a fun layout with continuous running, decent ops potential should I choose and some interesting scenic features.

 I don't envision it as single-purpose; more like a short-line serving various industries.

 

Well, you certainly can have continous running.

What sort of "interesting scenic features" were you looking at? Those alone will dictate what a portion of your trackplan is going to look like. 

Nothing on your plan really jumps out at me and says "wow".

How does the logging switchback fit into your scheme? Do you have a geographic region in mind already? What sort of industries are on your short line? You have two large yards...are they going to be filled with cars that you'll be sorting or just used for staging? Is sorting a yard something you like?

A bit more input on what you see your railroad "doing" and where it does it would help. 

-G- 

 

 

 

[Frisco-kid]

My parameters were:

• continuous running (we see that already)
• generic northwestern locale,
•  a waterfront scene (not shown as yet on either rendering)
• logging scene w/switchback incline
• small sawmill complex
• fuel/oil depot
• abandoned passenger stn (no passenger ops planned)
• gravel pit/quarry
• various other industries and structures I already have in my 'stable'

Some inputs from my trackplanning mentor include:

• east & west staging - I'm a rolling stock junkie
• more ops potenial than I envisioned
• car float with float yard
• double-ended central yard (making up / breaking down consisits are interesting to me)
• view block/backdrop down center peninsula (also not shown yet)
• the industry "bump" on the east side
• some interesting track configs such as the logging interchange

These are early-stage unlabled renderings of this work-in-progress; perhaps I posted too soon. Many of the siding configs and most of the scenic details (water, bridges, hills, grades, the"town", car float) are under development and not evident from the pictures.

A few changes already underway;

• expand the radius in the SE corner; that curve will now round a hill. The staging and siding tracks there will be reconfigured
• the sawmill scene with logpond will occupy the "bump" - expanded a bit, of course
• quarry/pit mine will abut a small hill in the NE corner

I'm generally pleased with the results so far, but suggestions are welcome.

 

[SpaceMouse]

Okay, then specifics. As already mentioned, your passing sidings and runarounds are very short. One of the "perks" of N is running long trains. You seem to take that perk out of the equation. 

Your yard in the center has a few things I observe. Both the yard leads are shorter than the longest tracks. They could easily be lengthened.

What looks to be the A/D track does not connect to the yard. You could just as easily make the ladders connect with that track and have the leads run straight out from there.  

 

[Frisco-kid]

 

Spacemouse,

You make some good points - here's a slightly revised plan, some of the changes were already in the works. Apologies for the horrid editing via MS Paint.

What was viewed as an A/D track was in fact a passing siding for the "town". Some of the too-short sidings were artifacts of prior renderings.

Still work to be done - the SE turnback loop, town siding config to name just two...

Rick 

 

 

[Lateral-G]

You might want two spurs for your sawmill/log pond. One to drop off the logs and another to load the finished boards onto flats or box cars. There could be a conflict or logistics issue with just one spur for offload/load.

I would think there also needs to be a link to get from the car float to the yard. As it is now you have to run all the way to the south end of the middle yard to get the cars from the float into and out of the yard.  

I just noticed you really can't do continuous running (that meaning just let the trains go without any activity on your part) since you have a return loop on either end. "Roundy-round" is out since you will have to throw the turnouts. I know this may seem like a nit and trivial until you one day forget to throw a switch.... 

 

-G- 

 

[Frisco-kid]

As a matter of fact, I'm planning at least 2 sawmill spurs. I saw a diagram recently of a "typical" sawmill scene that included a tiny yard to store empties after dumping the logs in the pond.

BTW - am I going to have to scratch-build empty log skelton cars? Never seen them offered; especially in N scale.

Also a good point about the car float; notice there is a small "car float yard" with drill track.

I can't keep up with the trackplan drawing fast enough to incorporate changes and post them, especially since I'm using editing software not tailored to trackplanning.

 Another early mod that hasn't made it to the drawing yet is another track from the SE loop up-n-over to connect via the wye to actually make a full continuous running loop w/o "switch-flipping"

[cuyama]

I can't keep up with the trackplan drawing fast enough to incorporate changes and post them, especially since I'm using editing software not tailored to trackplanning.

 

That might be an indication that you're drawing a wee bit too much and planning too little. Nobody likes this advice, but you might want to take a break from drawing and posting. Think through what you are doing. Do some simpler pencil sketches just for yourself of the various areas to see if they really make sense when studied over a couple of days. It's not a race. Give yourself time.

From looking at your renderings, I'm not sure everything that you are drawing will fit as drawn. That's one of the potential pitfalls of using general-purpose drawing software, one can end up with good-looking images that cannot be built in the space allotted.

Log cars have been offered in N scale by Micro-Trains, among others. These are limited runs, but they will likely run them again, or you can find the cars on the resale market.

Skeleton cars have been available individually and as part of sets like this (photo from www.modeltrainstuff.com)

A disconnect car logging set has also been offered (photo from the MicroTrains site)

Good luck.

Byron
Model RR Blog

[delray1967]

Looks pretty good so far, but keep thinking about modifications like the other guys suggest.  I'd connect the two passing sidings (by the '6 foot' and '10 foot' walls) to create one nice long siding.  The switchbacks seem too numerous.  Consider taking out one switchback and continuing the logging area over the stub yard (staging?) and model the logging industry more completely?  If you're planning to use DCC, the turnback loops could be automated with reversing circuits and auto throw turnouts.  Try this:  draw your track plan as large as possible and use your finger (or small piece of paper) as a locomotive (or train).  Move them at a realistic speed to see how long it takes to switch industries and run a lap on the main, or you could close your eyes and visualize the layout and the trains you plan to run on it when it's 'completed'.  This might help visualize strengths and weaknesses of your plan.  You will be running more than one mainline train at once won't you?  If you plan on having this layout for 10 or 20 or more years, a few extra months of planning will really pay off in the long run.  Research the railroad of your choice for a while, forget the current plan, then go back and start over from a blank plan.  Maybe you'll make drastic changes, maybe only minor ones, but I bet it'll be better either way.  In the meantime, build up that rolling stock fleet, and post pics of your progress, can't wait.

[Lateral-G]

I can't keep up with the trackplan drawing fast enough to incorporate changes and post them, especially since I'm using editing software not tailored to trackplanning.

 

That might be an indication that you're drawing a wee bit too much and planning too little. Nobody likes this advice, but you might want to take a break from drawing and posting. Think through what you are doing. Do some simpler pencil sketches just for yourself of the various areas to see if they really make sense when studied over a couple of days. It's not a race. Give yourself time.

From looking at your renderings, I'm not sure everything that you are drawing will fit as drawn. That's one of the potential pitfalls of using general-purpose drawing software, one can end up with good-looking images that cannot be built in the space allotted.

 

cuyama brings up a good point.

When I was designing my layout I would think "yeah, that's the one!". Then I'd look at it and start making changes. Then I'd think "yeah, that's the one!" and find more to change/move/redesign. I went through 5 or 6 of what I thought were  "final" plans only to find more things I could change or improve upon. Never fall in love with your first idea. It won't last. 

You can also fall into the trap on trying to cram in too much. Even in N-scale you can overwhelm the space. You're also going to find out that what looks like plenty of room on paper (or even a 3D CAD model) is going to be much different when you actually build it for real. I'm finding that out right now as I go from the track plan to actual bench work. I thought "hey, there's plenty of room" when it was on paper but suddenly when presented in the real world it's not so big any more. Some scenery and structures are actually going to take up more real estate when you build them then what you plan for on paper. I've never built a layout where this hasn't happened. 

You say you like operations....I suggest getting Trainplayer (along with Tracklayer). You use your plan and lay the track over it then actually run some trains. That way you'll see even before you drive the first spike if the layout is going to work. I did that with my iterations for my layout and discovered many areas where I could improve the plan for operations and running trains.

 -G-

[pcarrell]

Frisco,

As Spacemouse has wisely pointed out, sidings are short and the yards are not really that functional.  You have the space to do it right though, so I think that's what he's trying to hit on there.  Also, the vision for the RR is a little foggy, but it's getting there.  You know basically what you're after, and that's half the battle.  I'd be looking at those issues though.

As for rolling stock, there are options.

Walthers has a logging flat car:

http://www.nscalesupply.com/Wal/WAL-RollingStock45LoggingCars.html

MicroTrains actually has 3 different logging cars:

http://www.nscalesupply.com/MTL/MTL-113000.html

http://www.nscalesupply.com/MTL/MTL-11300700.html

http://www.nscalesupply.com/MTL/MTL-11400000.html

Republic loomotive works has some great stuff you'll be wanting to look at too:

http://www.republiclocomotiveworks.com/show_item.php?ID=610

http://www.republiclocomotiveworks.com/show_item.php?ID=611

http://www.republiclocomotiveworks.com/show_item.php?ID=672

http://www.republiclocomotiveworks.com/show_item.php?ID=394

http://www.republiclocomotiveworks.com/show_item.php?ID=990

http://www.republiclocomotiveworks.com/show_item.php?ID=158

http://www.republiclocomotiveworks.com/show_item.php?ID=157

http://www.republiclocomotiveworks.com/show_item.php?ID=147

So depending on the era, you have some options.  And if you want to go Nn3, you have more choices.  Republic Locomotive Works can help you out with most any need, as can Aspen Model, including dual guage track (turnouts too!).  The stuff isn't cheap, but it's awesome!

But first I think you'd be wise to work on that stuff Spacemouse is talking about.

[Frisco-kid]

I've been lusting after some of those RLW items ever since I saw the Coon Gap sawmill on the great little Possum Ridge Lumber Co. layout. Very cool, but beyond my budget and craftsman skills right now

My log car fleet consists of various MT disconnect and skeleton cars - I'll probably have to engineer a few "empties" by removing the log loads (they can float in the log pond).

The drawing posted is a few generations old, many of your recommendations are in the process of implementation. Those are staging tracks at east and west - I didn't mark them as such. What looks like an A/D track at the central yard is in fact a long passing siding. Most of the industry and passing siding configurations plus the town area are still "under development".

I appreciate all the input - since I've enlisted the services of a more accomplished trackplanner from the LDSIG; methinks I should let this thread go for now. I'll post a more complete trackplan later.

Thanks again,
Rick