I better like the smell of sage (are we talking white sage or deset sage)?
Anyway as it is used in every Native American ceremoney I've ever held or attended I will now be looking into saving my stalks for my layout, thanks for the tip.
dante wrote:I just checked the Bragdon/Scenic Express website which says that Super Trees have been discontinued.
Scenic Express doesn't say discontinued.(thank God!)http://www.sceneryexpress.com/departments.asp?dept=1006
R. T. POTEET wrote:These things do make impressive trees and, as I have said before here on the forum, I appreciate Scenic Express being in business but he's going to have to find someone else to pay for his next Rolls-Royce because I don't spend any more money than I absolutely have to on scenery. I have never had a commercially marketed tree on any of my N Scale layouts. Next summer when I go to the N Scale convention in Portland, Ore. I am going to return to the far, far reaches of the wild, wild west via the central Rockies - Eastern Idaho or Western Wyoming. While there, deep in the heart of God's Country, I will chain saw the tops off a couple of dozen Big Sagebrushes, bag them up in trash bags, fumigate them well to eliminate any critters hitching a ride to warmer climes, box them up, and UPS them back to this land of scenic creativity where, after they have shed their leaves, they will be well glycerined.I should net at least a couple of hundred trees for my effort at an estimated cost of twenty-five to thirty-five cents per tree and that includes the expense of the added foilage.
Hope you like the smell of sage :) Stuff is like cigarette smoke smell; dominating and hard to get rid of.
Holy Golden Bush Batman!!!
Are you kidding me, I'm in shock and I know what shock is because I'm an Emt.
The prices on those trees are outragious!!!
Is that company for real?
Man thanks for posting the link, I bet with stuff like that it could be easy dumping 10 grand into a layout.....woweeee!
The size I'd like would cost me $60.00 a tree.....I'm learning to love my layout but not that much.
It gets me to thinking how much the most expensive HO locomotive ever sold was worth?
Thanks for the eye opener loathar
They'd break my budget fer sure!
Nice though!!
Jarrell
loathar wrote: Red Horse-You want to see some nice, pricey trees?http://www.canyoncreekscenics.com/frm_home.htm
Red Horse-You want to see some nice, pricey trees?http://www.canyoncreekscenics.com/frm_home.htm
Sooo....How much $$$ do you want to send me some of that sage??
A couple of years ago, while driving through Colorado... or was it Utah.. I saw some sagebrush by the side of the road, quickly pulled over and took a closer look.. much to the dismay of my fellow travelers. It was easy to see that the bush had great possibilities. Wish I'd mailed some ome.
Some good tips here, thanks!
I especially like the flowering bushes.. :)
AlreadyInUse wrote:I've made about 300 of these so far and once you get a method established it does go very fast. For my first batch, I combined their instructions with Joe Fugate's and they turned out well. However, after talking to some fellow members of my NMRA division, I now "build" them this way:1. Sort and "prune" the trees, removing the dried leaves. Carfully, the trees are very brittle at this point.2. Soak them for 10-30 minutes in a tub of very hot water. I soak up to 6 at once. Hang upside down from a clothesline with clothes pins to straighten them out. Use clothes pins or heavier weights from the bottom (really the top) for persuasion. Allow to dry overnight. I usually have about 30 hanging at once. You need a lot of clothspins.3. Paint them gray or tan from the cheapest rattle can of primer you can get. This will also seal them and make them less brittle. Rehang and weight any that tend to revert to their original shapes. (Use white paint for birch trees - hand paint black highlites.)4. Use a spray adhesive and multiple colors and grades of ground foam. Less rather than more. It's easy to add, harder to remove.5. Spray paint the ground foam as desired. See Joe Fugate's site for paint recommendations.6. Use cheap hair spray for a final fixative.**** Start with the starter kit. It's a great value.**** Save the rejects for bushes and shrubs.**** Leave some bare to represent dead trees**** Make flowering shrunbs by first decorating with green foam. Then sprinkle a little of the "fall" colors supplied with the starter kit to represent flowers.
I've made about 300 of these so far and once you get a method established it does go very fast. For my first batch, I combined their instructions with Joe Fugate's and they turned out well. However, after talking to some fellow members of my NMRA division, I now "build" them this way:
1. Sort and "prune" the trees, removing the dried leaves. Carfully, the trees are very brittle at this point.
2. Soak them for 10-30 minutes in a tub of very hot water. I soak up to 6 at once. Hang upside down from a clothesline with clothes pins to straighten them out. Use clothes pins or heavier weights from the bottom (really the top) for persuasion. Allow to dry overnight. I usually have about 30 hanging at once. You need a lot of clothspins.
3. Paint them gray or tan from the cheapest rattle can of primer you can get. This will also seal them and make them less brittle. Rehang and weight any that tend to revert to their original shapes. (Use white paint for birch trees - hand paint black highlites.)
4. Use a spray adhesive and multiple colors and grades of ground foam. Less rather than more. It's easy to add, harder to remove.
5. Spray paint the ground foam as desired. See Joe Fugate's site for paint recommendations.
6. Use cheap hair spray for a final fixative.
**** Start with the starter kit. It's a great value.
**** Save the rejects for bushes and shrubs.
**** Leave some bare to represent dead trees
**** Make flowering shrunbs by first decorating with green foam. Then sprinkle a little of the "fall" colors supplied with the starter kit to represent flowers.
From the far, far reaches of the wild, wild west I am: rtpoteet
Yep, you're right. Forgot about that! It's much easier to straighten a soaked tree than one than one that is partially soaked.
Thanks,
loathar wrote: jacon12 wrote: camaro wrote: Jacon12 Why soak the entire tree in matte medium if you are only adding Noch ground foam to the upper branches? LarryLarry, that's a good question and one I thought of when doing it as per the instructions. The only reason I could find was that I wouldn't have to hold the individual trees upside down in the matte medium. Another reason, stated in the instructions, was that the mm would soak into the trunk, on a painted tree, and in the drying process would put tiny prototypical cracks in the 'bark' of the tree. But, I suppose a person could turn a tree upside down in the solution for a minute or two, submerging only the branches, and achieve the same result, although some of the trees have pretty low branches so you have a have a fairly deep vat or tub for this. In the end it's probably just going to be easier to submerge several at a time into your mm solution.Jarrell I thought it was to add strength to the tree and help the armature straighten out. You soak it and hang it upside down with weights on them till they dry. Helps keep the natural material from drying out and crumbling.I remember reading this in a Super Trees "how to" article.
jacon12 wrote: camaro wrote: Jacon12 Why soak the entire tree in matte medium if you are only adding Noch ground foam to the upper branches? LarryLarry, that's a good question and one I thought of when doing it as per the instructions. The only reason I could find was that I wouldn't have to hold the individual trees upside down in the matte medium. Another reason, stated in the instructions, was that the mm would soak into the trunk, on a painted tree, and in the drying process would put tiny prototypical cracks in the 'bark' of the tree. But, I suppose a person could turn a tree upside down in the solution for a minute or two, submerging only the branches, and achieve the same result, although some of the trees have pretty low branches so you have a have a fairly deep vat or tub for this. In the end it's probably just going to be easier to submerge several at a time into your mm solution.Jarrell
camaro wrote: Jacon12 Why soak the entire tree in matte medium if you are only adding Noch ground foam to the upper branches? Larry
Jacon12
Why soak the entire tree in matte medium if you are only adding Noch ground foam to the upper branches?
Larry
Larry, that's a good question and one I thought of when doing it as per the instructions. The only reason I could find was that I wouldn't have to hold the individual trees upside down in the matte medium. Another reason, stated in the instructions, was that the mm would soak into the trunk, on a painted tree, and in the drying process would put tiny prototypical cracks in the 'bark' of the tree. But, I suppose a person could turn a tree upside down in the solution for a minute or two, submerging only the branches, and achieve the same result, although some of the trees have pretty low branches so you have a have a fairly deep vat or tub for this. In the end it's probably just going to be easier to submerge several at a time into your mm solution.
I thought it was to add strength to the tree and help the armature straighten out. You soak it and hang it upside down with weights on them till they dry. Helps keep the natural material from drying out and crumbling.I remember reading this in a Super Trees "how to" article.
MisterBeasley wrote:How long does it take to make a tree? Alternately, if you make them in batches, how long does it take to make a batch of trees, and how many do you make at a time?"Poems are made by fools like me,But only JaRRell can make a tree."
How long does it take to make a tree? Alternately, if you make them in batches, how long does it take to make a batch of trees, and how many do you make at a time?
"Poems are made by fools like me,
But only JaRRell can make a tree."
Mr. B, I'm not the fastest fella on the block so EVERYTHING takes me longer.
It really doesn't take that long, picking the little natural curly Q pieces off the tree takes a few minutes. There aren't a LOT of these, maybe 5 or 6 on each 'tree'. The thing is though, you have to be gentle and reach in with your tweezers and remove them or you'll break more of the limbs than you'd like. You'll probably break one or two anyway but you certainly want to minimize it.
Next is the painting, which some don't do. You can paint 10 in nothing flat with a can of Krylon. Hang them up to dry. I let them dry a few hours.
Then you have the soaking in the matte medium for a few minutes and then sprinkle the 'leaves' on.
Hang them back upside down to dry for at least 20 minutes, then MIST them with a 1:7 matte medium solution and let them dry perferably overnight depending on your heat and humidity and you're done .
I can't emphasize enough the importance of hitting them with a mist of matte medium instead of a 'spray' or you'll blow off some of your leaves.
As you can see, the process requires doing a step and waiting for a drying time so it's hard to exactly say how long it takes to do a given amount of trees. Preparation is an important key also. Have your place set up and ready. String your clothes line, mix up you matte medium, have some extra clothes pins etc.
The first group of 7 I did was all outside on a nice warm day and it went so easy. Then the weather got very windy and I had to find a place inside and settle on my utility house and that works great. The trees are very, very lightweight so a good wind will take them right off your clothes line. OR.... snap the branches off... either way is not good.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Here are the Scenic Express instructions (with pictures):
http://www.scenicexpress.com/supertrees.html
In the more detailed instructions that come with the product, they explain that Matte Medium will condition the armature material so that they will last longer (and make them more flexible if you need to straighten them).
Jarrell - keep in mind that I model in N-scale, so the big bag of material will yield many more trees for me than it will for you in HO.
I also recommend the Scenic Express ground foams (flock and turf). They are a nice alternative to the Woodland Scenics line.
I found that the trees are best done outside, if one can possibly do it. I purchased the starter kit that includes a bag of the 'armatures'..... the natural sage brush type plant in a dried form. The first thing you have to do is gently separate the 'limb's into different sizes, ie. large trees, medium, small etc. Save the little stuff for underbrush and little trees.
I put up a clothes line in a utility shed out back and that's where I did most of the work because it's been so windy here lately.
The kit comes with a very fine leaf material (Noch brand) in a couple shades of green and a couple of autumn shades also. It also includes a bag of the coarser foam, like Woodland Scenics makes. I liked the Noch material best but will try the other later. It also has two small plastic trays to catch what doesn't stick to the trees. There are 4 or 5 tweezers, the large type, that are very handy. It also includes some matte medium.
After you've sorted a few trees out, take tweezers and remove the little curly growth that is on the 'tree'. That takes a few minutes per tree and it's not hard, just be GENTLE.. the limbs do break.
Holding a tree with a large tweezer I then spray painted the 'trees' with Krylon medium grey paint and hung them on the line to dry, upside down. Oh! Did I mention you should purchase a bag of clothes pins from the dollar store? Yes, you'll need'um.
After the paint has dried, mix up your matte medium in a container that is deep enough to submerge several trees and let them soak at least 30 seconds. I went 30 minutes on mine. Fish out a tree with the tweezers and, holding it right side up, sprinkle the leaf material on it so that the leaves only stick to the TOPS of the limbs, i.e. don't hold the tree upside down for this step.
Then clip the tree, upside down, onto your clothes line and you'll probably need to use a pair of your tweezers to clip to the very top of the tree to help straighten the tree while it dries. The largest number of trees I did at one time was 7. I took a few common clothes pins and added weight to them and used them to straighten the trees out also.
In other words, the wet tree with leaf material added, is hanging upside down via a clothes pin and there's another tweezer or weighted clothes pin attached to the uppermost branch of the tree to help pull it straight. You'll need to do this on some trees because of their natural growth pattern and also they tend to get a little bent or curved in the package.
You can leave off the painting step if you like, it isn't necessary.. but I think the tree looks better, especially if it's a foreground tree, if it is painted. Of course, that step is easiest done outside.
The final step comes when the tree has dried at least 20 minutes. You gently grab a tree with one of the long tweezers, unhook it from your clothes line and turn it rightside up, then MIST it with a solution of the matte medium. Mine was diluted 7 to 1. It's very important to have a bottle that will put out a MIST and the bottle they included in the kit won't do that. At least mine wouldn't. Luckily I had one that would. On the second batch of trees that I did I didn't bother to take the tree from the clothes line, I simply misted them while they were hanging upside down and it works fine like that. In fact, that's the way the instructions recommend.
Hang it back up to dry and then plant it.
It takes about as long to explain as it does to do it, and once you get set up and your assembly line going you can really turn them out. I pour the used matte medium, from the deep tray, into a gallon milk jug, ready to be used next time.
I hope that explains the way it's done. The kit has very good instructions with pictures. You really can not mess it up, just be gentle and not heavy handed and you'll get some great looking trees.
Very nice job. Can you give a kind of step by step on how you did the trees? Did you purchase one of the kits that came with the fine ground foam or did you purchase separately?
MAbruce wrote:They look great!It's a great product that I highly recommend. I have used them extensively on my N-scale layout. One package of material yielded over 100 trees of various sizes. It turned out to be a very economical endeavor.
They look great!
It's a great product that I highly recommend. I have used them extensively on my N-scale layout. One package of material yielded over 100 trees of various sizes. It turned out to be a very economical endeavor.
Bruce, I'll be making a LOT of these before I'm done, especially for foreground viewing.
loathar wrote:Looks great! I need to get one of their kits and try them. I can make good back ground trees but would rather do something else in the foreground. I was checking out a layout builders web site and they did a fall/winter layout with all bare Super Trees. It looked AMAZING!They say you can plant the seeds from the bottom of the bag of armatures and grow those plants if you have the right conditions.
I know what you mean! I've got to learn a good method of making mass background trees since my modeling geographical area is the southern Appalachian mountains. On my next layout, like I'll have time left in my life to do one, I think I'm going to do the UP out west somewhere. Maybe it would be a lot cheaper?
The Super Tree Kit includes some fall foilage that I want to try over around my coal mine area, which is supposed to be at a higher elevation. If you do a tree that is starting to change, green toward the bottom and gradually changing to gold at the top, it's just beautiful. I didn't know about the seeds, but I think they wouldn't do to well here in Georgia. If I lived in Wisconsin I think I'd give it a try!
selector wrote:I agree, Jarrell, they are very good...excellent. I think I will have to break down and purchase a half dozen or so for the foreground's sake in imaging. I can make some okay trees, but they are best at a distance.You have done a ton of ballasting. How did that go, looking back?Also, what is the radius of the curve?-Crandell
I agree, Jarrell, they are very good...excellent. I think I will have to break down and purchase a half dozen or so for the foreground's sake in imaging. I can make some okay trees, but they are best at a distance.
You have done a ton of ballasting. How did that go, looking back?
Also, what is the radius of the curve?
-Crandell
Hi Crandell! The radius of the curve, like all curves on my layout, is 22 inches. If I were starting all over today they would be larger, maybe 27 inches. Of course, if I were starting over there are several things I would change, but... as you know.. it's a learning experience.
Ballasting, how I dislike that task because it's so slow and tedious, but it has to be done! This area, on the center peninsular, is the only place I've done any ballasting. I have to get back to doing more, maybe after I finish painting the backdrop.
If you do choose to go with the Super Trees, go ahead and purchase the starter kit as it contains all the things you'll need, such as the leaf flocking material, matte medium, trays and some well made tweesers of a substantial weight. That weight is needed to help straighten stubborn tree armatures that have a bit too much curve.
Thank you for your interest!