Smallest Space Needed to Model a Prototype?

[Looshi]

I'm thinking about designing a new HO layout. My last layout was a beginner layout, a 5x9 island along the side of our train room. It was also a freelance railroad, based loosly on a class I, a region, and a timeframe. I've found that I really like this aspect, and am more interested in prototypical modeling.

The problem is that I am limited in my space. My next layout can't be much bigger than what I have. My maximum amount of space is about 11x5, with the main aisle being along the left side. There's not a whole lot of room to change this around without screwing up my dad's layout along the other side of the room. I might be able to run a small shelf about 4 feet extra along the back wall for staging.

My prototype isn't huge. The original railroad had a mainline around 20 miles. Today a lot of it has been abandoned, I was interested in the area around my house. This 6 miles of line today is a tourist operation with small switching done by the Indiana and Ohio. Obviously I can't model all that, and am trying to pick out key scenes. At the very least I am trying to fit in a small yard, a bridge, and an interchange.

My question is twofold. Is this two much for 11x5? Is it even possible to model anything beyond an urban industrial layout reasonably in such a space? Should I stick to freelance? I'm wondering if I need to revaluate my prorities.

[SpaceMouse]

If you are asking if you can do it, the answer is a qualified yes. You have the room depending on how you lay it out. If you are going with 5 foot wide, you'll get a lot more scenic length if you put a divider down the center.

Grab a sheet of graph paper and sketch your space out. The post it here and we'll take a look. Include all the walls doors and windows and anything else that is a factor.

[IRONROOSTER]

5x11 should be big enough.  I would limit it to  a couple of scenes and try to capture the essence of your prototype since you probably don't have enough room to capture exact track arrangements.  While a continuous run is nice, try to scenically arrange the layout so it is normally operated point to point with the continuous run connection disguised.

Enjoy

Paul 

[ndbprr]

six miles in HO in full scale would require a distance of 67' per mile or 402' of mainline.  Welcome to the world of selective compression and fast time.  Obviously no one, at least no one I know has that kind of room.  You need to read up on fast time and selective compression of which there have been many articles and probably several books over the years.  Then you will need to decide exactly what of the shortline you really want to model.  It isn't hard but you need to think a lot before laying track.

[jkeaton]

Read any of the articles or books by John Armstrong on track planning - and look for his smaller layouts.  While they won't be 'exactly' what you're looking for, his explanations of how to shrink a prototype down to layout size by picking out what is important, and his system of drawing 'squares' for actual planning, are invaluable.

[wjstix]

Think in terms of modelling a bitesize chunk of a prototype, don't try to model an entire railroad end-to-end. Even a tiny railroad is going to be a challenge to fit into anything smaller than a gymnasium. Pick out one or two or three 'scenes' of the real railroad that appeal to you, and concentrate on them. The layout areas between them can be sort of 'generic', every inch of layout doesn't have to be exactly like your prototype for you to effectively model the prototype.

[Looshi]

Here is a quick photoshop sketch showing what I am dealing with.

The aisle is pretty imuch in stone because of situation of the other layout. I don't have a lot of flexibility with my space. My current layout is an island on wheels so I can roll it around and get to all sides. The downside to this is that I can't use my full space for a run. I don't want to be stuck with lots of 5 ft reaches, so I'm thinking about doing a donut layout (which would allow for the longest runs and curves). I'm 18 so a reasonably high duckunder won't be a huge deal.

I know that I can't do 6 miles of line verbatium and instead have picked 3-4 scenes that I want to do. I was hoping for a minimum radius greater than 18" on the mainline, because that is what I have now, however I'm not sure what such a minimum would be. For spurs I can live with a 18" radius and sharp turnouts, but I would at least like a smooth mainline (one of my problems now is track reliability).

This thread has been helpful for me so far. Any more big picture comments? So far I've decided I need to pick up a track planning book and to set my priorities.

[steinjr]

The aisle is pretty imuch in stone because of situation of the other layout. I don't have a lot of flexibility with my space. My current layout is an island on wheels so I can roll it around and get to all sides. The downside to this is that I can't use my full space for a run. I don't want to be stuck with lots of 5 ft reaches, so I'm thinking about doing a donut layout (which would allow for the longest runs and curves). I'm 18 so a reasonably high duckunder won't be a huge deal.

I know that I can't do 6 miles of line verbatium and instead have picked 3-4 scenes that I want to do. I was hoping for a minimum radius greater than 18" on the mainline, because that is what I have now, however I'm not sure what such a minimum would be. For spurs I can live with a 18" radius and sharp turnouts, but I would at least like a smooth mainline (one of my problems now is track reliability).

This thread has been helpful for me so far. Any more big picture comments? So far I've decided I need to pick up a track planning book and to set my priorities.

 You might want to consider doing operator pit layout with a medium sized shelf (15-18" deep) around it, maybe with run-through staging on the aisle/duckunder side. With judicious use of backdrops, you could create a pretty good illusion of a layout that is connected to the rest of the world on both sides. And do 24" radius curves without breaking into a too hard sweat.

 Rough concept sketch - you obviously have to figure out what you have to model, train lengths etc for yourself:

 

 Smile,
 Stein

 

[ndbprr]

you have enough room to do a lot if you keep the trains short.  Think about a yard on one side with a connection to a major railroad. Come all the way around to the other corner and put in a helix with 18-20" radius.  anthing bigger than 18" will stick out a little but should be manageable.  That way you wind up on a second level over your yard.  The 18" radius will be pretty steep with a 4" rise in about 145" which will be about 2.75% but doable with four wheel diesels or small steam and 40' cars.  Then also consider maybe making the railroad narrower on each side at the back of the area and also on the back wall.  that would allow a narrow island in the middle with a passage on each side for a "special" industry on each level.  Ya gotta think ourside the box :-)!

[Looshi]

 You might want to consider doing operator pit layout with a medium sized shelf (15-18" deep) around it, maybe with run-through staging on the aisle/duckunder side. With judicious use of backdrops, you could create a pretty good illusion of a layout that is connected to the rest of the world on both sides. And do 24" radius curves without breaking into a too hard sweat.

 Rough concept sketch - you obviously have to figure out what you have to model, train lengths etc for yourself:

 

 Smile,
 Stein

 

 That's similar to what I had in mind, except I wasn't sure exactly where to put the staging.

ndbpr, do you really think a helix would be feasible? I was under the impression they were more for layouts that are much larger than mine.

Prototype Shots:

 

 

 

 

 

[HarryHotspur]

My theory is model whatever you like best. By all logic, my last layout should have been N scale, but I just like HO for some reason. So I went with HO and never had a second thought about it.