to solder, or not to solder

[prairieboy2765]

I've been back into this wonderful hobby for the last few years, stockpiling all kinds of stuff. Eventually, I'm going to build a layout for my HO, so here's my question. I'm planning on a modest layout, 5' X 9' (on a ping-pong table) with a basic loop with some sidings. It'll be accessed from all sides. It's simple, basic, and should be great for the first layout. It's going to have one loco and DC powered. Should I solder most of the track, or leave spots for expansion/contraction? Should I go DCC for future possibilities? I'm not putting in anything special for lighting, except a controlled X-ing maybe. Suggestions???

[wickman]

Hi

I would say if your using flex track to solder the curves and not to solder the stright aways.

[sparkyjay31]

Hi

I would say if your using flex track to solder the curves and not to solder the stright aways.

 

Ditto.  I used flex track in the corners and have soldered (on the outside of the rails) thru all the corners leaving the straight runs for any expansion / contraction that may occur.

[joe-daddy]

Flextrack = soldered joints.

DCC = flexibility and long term fun.

Just my 2 cents, worth nothing more 

Joe Daddy

 

 

 

[prairieboy2765]

Cool...thanks for the concensus. Here's another question. Providing my layout on the ping-pong table, how bad (or good) would it be if I didn't use flex track, but instead used the regular 9" straights and 18" radii curves? Is it more, or less advantagous than using flex track, providing I still only solder curves but leave the straight-aways unsoldered?! (I have so many of that Atlas track I want to use).

[JulesB]

Hi

I would say if your using flex track to solder the curves and not to solder the stright aways.

Lynn

I like your ledge rock, looks better that the real stuff outside my window.

Jules

 

[wickman]

Cool...thanks for the concensus. Here's another question. Providing my layout on the ping-pong table, how bad (or good) would it be if I didn't use flex track, but instead used the regular 9" straights and 18" radii curves? Is it more, or less advantagous than using flex track, providing I still only solder curves but leave the straight-aways unsoldered?! (I have so many of that Atlas track I want to use).

I think you just answered your own question 18" radii curve = max 18" radii curve . If you can work with that, no proble then.

[tomikawaTT]

Cool...thanks for the concensus. Here's another question. Providing my layout on the ping-pong table, how bad (or good) would it be if I didn't use flex track, but instead used the regular 9" straights and 18" radii curves? Is it more, or less advantagous than using flex track, providing I still only solder curves but leave the straight-aways unsoldered?! (I have so many of that Atlas track I want to use).

If you're satisfied with 18" radius curves (and your rolling stock is happy with them) there's nothing wrong with using the commercial product that is sure to give you the desired curvature.  If I was going to use standard 30 degree curved sections, I'd leave out the last, offset the tangent track 10mm (.4 inch) and form a proper spiral easement with flex track.  That would avoid the 'toy train lurch' at the point of curvature.  The spiral would become pure tangent at a point the same distance away from the theoretical point of curvature (where the sectional curve would have ended if that last section was still there) as the straight-line length of the curved section.

Just my .  Other opinions may differ.

Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - with spiral easements)

[wedudler]

I've soldered all my joints when there will be some current. Unsoldered joints will be in some time like a gap.

Wolfgang 

[wickman]

Wolfgang nice website by the way , lots of great How You Did It's and nice scenery.

[Texas Zepher]

Should I solder most of the track, or leave spots for expansion/contraction?

I don't solder any joints unless they are between flex track on a curve.  Good trackwork will not require soldering.

Should I go DCC for future possibilities?

The only time I don't recommend DCC is if the layout will NEVER have more than one loco on the track at a given time and/or if only one person will ever be operating it.   DCC has become so economical it is almost nonsensical not to use it.  If you ever plan on having more than one loco - go with DCC.

[B&Le]

I solder the track joints on my layout. The table is made of plywood so there aren't really any expansion issues.

[larak]

Also, you can make a "sort of" easement by using a piece of 22" radius sectional at the end of the 18" radius sectional. Better than 18" to straight. (two small lurches vs one large one) It won't work as well as Chuck's idea though (no lurches).

 

Karl 

[steamnut]

If you want to put a layout on a pin-pong table, this is a great situation for using Kato Uni-Track (and no, I have no commercial connection with the stuff); check it out. I had a semi-temporary layout with the stuff for twelve years and never had any electrical problems.

[joe-daddy]

Should I solder most of the track, or leave spots for expansion/contraction?

I don't solder any joints unless they are between flex track on a curve.  Good trackwork will not require soldering.

Should I go DCC for future possibilities?

The only time I don't recommend DCC is if the layout will NEVER have more than one loco on the track at a given time and/or if only one person will ever be operating it.   DCC has become so economical it is almost nonsensical not to use it.  If you ever plan on having more than one loco - go with DCC.

 

  What Zepher said. . .

[HillsideLeo]

I agree to solder flex track on curves.

For a nice smooth curve start with the track straight.

Stagger the joint, slide the movable rail down 2 or 3 inchs down the ties and do likewise with the next peice of track. Solder the 2 offset joints file the track smooth and only then start bending the track and nailing it down. 

 

My first post

[DeadheadGreg]

Hey, i was wondering if someone could give me some feedback on an idea of mine. 

I haven't been able to really come to any sort of consensus on a track plan, so what i was thinking of doing was making a couple cardboard visual aids, like half-circle sections or 1/4 sections of an 18" radius circle.  Then, I would lay out an arrangement of turnouts that I have, and using the radius tools to visually improvise an acceptable trackplan.  I've come up with some designs i like with atlas' software, but it doesnt give you any visuals for the differences between any # turnout; i've got 4's, 6's, and 8's that I want to use (#8 for mine branch/yard/longer straight sections of track).  Do you think this would be worth doing at all? 

2nd, can someone go through this spiral easement deal a little better?  I understand the concept, I just don't have a clue how to go about figuring it out.

3rd (last one, i think haha), whats the best way to go about prepping a piece of flex track to be A) bent and then B) installed? 

okay, now sorry a 4th, lol: what is the best way to go about soldering the sections?  I've heard that tinning the rail or iron tip first and heating the opposite side of the rail to be soldered (ie: holding the top against the inside of the rail to solder the outside section). 

 

alright im finally done i swear, haha

[Anonymous]

I saw damn the torpedos! I soldered mine together and then followed up with filing across all the rail joints for a smooth transition between the two rail pieces. Can't hurt......I hope, lol

[wickman]

Hey, i was wondering if someone could give me some feedback on an idea of mine. 

I haven't been able to really come to any sort of consensus on a track plan, so what i was thinking of doing was making a couple cardboard visual aids, like half-circle sections or 1/4 sections of an 18" radius circle.  Then, I would lay out an arrangement of turnouts that I have, and using the radius tools to visually improvise an acceptable trackplan.  I've come up with some designs i like with atlas' software, but it doesnt give you any visuals for the differences between any # turnout; i've got 4's, 6's, and 8's that I want to use (#8 for mine branch/yard/longer straight sections of track).  Do you think this would be worth doing at all? 

2nd, can someone go through this spiral easement deal a little better?  I understand the concept, I just don't have a clue how to go about figuring it out.

3rd (last one, i think haha), whats the best way to go about prepping a piece of flex track to be A) bent and then B) installed? 

okay, now sorry a 4th, lol: what is the best way to go about soldering the sections?  I've heard that tinning the rail or iron tip first and heating the opposite side of the rail to be soldered (ie: holding the top against the inside of the rail to solder the outside section). 

 

alright im finally done i swear, haha

ok I'll only tell you what I would do or have done , not necessarily right or wrong way.

1. As far as radius tools I've never used them althugh I have used several 22" radius sectionals put together to give me an idea of the maximum radius I was after for the flex track in a given space. Mock ups are a very good idea along with mock up hills and buildings, it's better to invest time in a mock up and see what you like then laying track and finding out it doesn't work.

2. Not sure about spiral easment I just made sure my flex track corners came out in a nice transition into a straight away and tried to avois  S-curves. Just make sure the curves and straights transition together nicely.

3.For flex track I had bench work up and ready and I'd lay three 3 foot sections of flex track the moveing rail will go to inside rail on the curve and all curves ( sometimes only 2 were needed ) then first thing I'd do is clip the first two ties off from each end of the flex track put solder flux on the about to be soldered ends of the rails, slide the rail joiners on , join the flex track , get my solder iron fist touching the flux, touch the tip of the iron to the thin solder(thi now sticks to the tip of the iron), hold the solder iron tip abouve the rail joiner touching the rail ( you will see the solder flow into the joiner because of the heat and preapplied flux at beginning, this only takes a second and once the solder has flowed move the iron tip to the other flex track end above the rail joiner and this will complete the flow of solder, don't and I repeat do not solder to the inside of any rails unless absolutely necessary, after you have 2 or 3 flex tracks soldered get some alcohol on a kleenex and wipe the solder joints clean to remove any resin from soldering. Your flex track is now ready to bend. You may find that to make the curve you have to remove another tie this is ok as once all the rail has been put in place you will be going back and inserting the missing ties to finish the job, this makes it look better as well as gives the curved rails strength and keeps the distance between the rails even and in guage.Which reminds me get yourself a NMRA guage.

4 I guess 4 is in with 3 LOL

Hopefully this helps , soldering takes practice, I was in the same boat your in now and it does get easier.   

[DeadheadGreg]

I'm still kinda confused on how to prep a track for curving and laying.  Say you're starting from the straight section of track; do you take the section of flextrack thats going to be the curve (say, 2 pieces soldered together) and connect one end to the end of the straight section of track, and then go from there?  As in, do you connect the end of the flex section to the end of the original straight section, and then curve the track to fit the roadbed, and then clip off the longer rail to make the ends even? 

i've heard of people sliding a rail up the ties too...  ????

i'm pretty sure I have a few sections of old atlas flextrack in my attic still that I'm going to practice with; its just gonna be kinda hard because they don't hold a curve, and the ME code 70 rail that I have that i'm gonna use does hold a curve.  this is also going to be my testing track for getting rail weathering techniques down

[wickman]

Your going to get better results having the straight section already soldered to the curved flex rather then trying to solder the straight end flex as its difficult to control and don't forget you will have ties removed on the soldered ends. Start with the curved section and tack it in place then work your way outward into the stright away , this will give you a nicer easment as well. You will probably find that you have to drill the end points ties  in the curve or whereever theres stress for added nails.

[DeadheadGreg]

interesting...  so you're saying that if you're building a large oval or something, that you should start with the curves and then work towards the straight aways? 

[wickman]

interesting...  so you're saying that if you're building a large oval or something, that you should start with the curves and then work towards the straight aways? 

In my opinion Yes, after all your suppose to know where your trackage is going to fall ( roughly ) before laying any track. Also I don't recommend putting a flex track joint at the end of a curve , better in the curve so it follows through. If your internet connection can handle it you may want to take a look at the link to my new layout as well as the old and watch where the joints are. On the old layout I learned more.

[Texas Zepher]

I'm still kinda confused on how to prep a track for curving and laying.

Some things are hard to explain.  I always try to END with a long curved section.  This is because a large curve is easier to put into two fixed ends.   As for preping to begin with I start somewhere with a fixed rail - like at a commercial turnout.  I cut a knotch under the rail just wide and deep enough for a rail joiner.  Make it 1/2 rail joiner width into the plastic rib that is under the rails.   Put rail joiners on.   Put the glue down where the track is going to go.  Press the joiners onto the turnout (or fixed piece of track).  Bend the rail into place and pin down.  Let dry.  Do the next piece by cutting out where the new joints will be.  Note that they will NOT be even if this has gone around a curve.  This is not a problem.  Just cut the knotches in the ties where the rail joiners will be.  Put the joiners on the fixed track, and put glue down for the new section.  Slide the rail of the new piece through the "spikes" of the old and onto the joiners.  Curve into place and pin down.  repeat. 

take the section of flextrack thats going to be the curve (say, 2 pieces soldered together)

If you solder two pieces together before curving, the one rail will slide and wipe out many many ties.   Some one at our club tried that method and ended up with cr@p joints like this:

instead of this:
Notice they also used nails!  Needless to say we don't let them lay track anymore.

its just gonna be kinda hard because they don't hold a curve

Them not holding a curve is great for making easments.  They sort of make their own.

[fwright]

IMHO, the 2 types of flex track take distinctly different methods to lay the track.

Atlas flex track, the epitome of the "springy" flex track, needs to have joints soldered on curves to prevent the springiness from causing horizontal misalignment of the rails ("kinks") at the joints.  The springiness creates great easements naturally, but also has the aforementioned tendency to create kinks at joints any time the track doesn't naturally line up.

MicroEngineering flex track is as far at the opposite end of the springiness spectrum as you can get.  Once bent to a curve, it stays bent to a curve, and is difficult to straighten.  For many of us, getting a smooth curve of consistent radius with ME track takes a form of some type.  There are some that can do it by hand, but I need a form to avoid a series of sharp and broad curves.  I cut 1/2" thick plywood curved strips with a jig saw.  The inside of the strip is cut to the desired radius minus half the width of the track over the ties.  The outside of the strip is cut to the inner radius plus 2", giving me 2 different radii.  I have a set of 4 strips, going in increments from 16" radius to 24" radius.  Bigger than 24" radius, I form by eye and hand because it's not so critical.  I simply press the track against the strip for the desired curve radius.  Two of my strips have my desired spiral easements from the Model Railroader templates (available here on the trains.com web site) built into the end of the plywood strip.  It doesn't take but about 15 minutes to mark and cut the plywood strips, and they last forever.

An alternative to your own forms are the Ribbon Rail radius gauges. 

Since the ME track stays in the shape you bend it to, you don't need to solder the joints on curves or straight (you may if you choose).  You don't even have to have rail joiners if you carefully align the pieces and the track is held in place securely.   The only soldering required with ME track is to attach feeders.

my thoughts, your choices

Fred W 

[DeadheadGreg]

yeah thats what ive heard about the ME flex; the stuff is freakin stiff!!  I wish I had a jigsaw; i was thinking of doing something like that w/ cardboard to be able to mark centerlines on the layout for laying track (bringing up a question: is a track curves radius measure at the center of the ties or the end of the ties on the inside of the circle?)

also, does a curve on a grade affect its radius?  I have an 18" radius curve thats going to sort of spiral up a 3% grade into an S-curve; does this affect the radius at all, or can i place the risers along the center lines and still be fine? 

also, how do you calculate a spiral easement?  I've been thinking of using a 22" radius curve section to start ever 18" radius curve that i'm going to have; would this work?